17 year old daughter has no friends

[Lowndes]

I am at my wits end and a total loss as to how to help my daughter, do we just give up and assume the world is against her.... because it feels that way. I would never say that to her, but I am struggling to manage or cope with her hurt and upset.

This is a long post, I am sorry, but it has also been a long term issue!

17 year old DD has always struggled with friendships. She didn't really find her 'crowd' at Primary school, although she had one close friend who unfortunately dumped DD in Y6 and then went on to bully DD, quite badly. To the point that when it came to secondary school, DD elected to go to a different school to the majority of her primary class mates.

Secondary school early years was up and down, but eventually DD found a small group of friends whom she remained close to until leaving in Y11. DD was only friends with this group though and said everyone else disliked her (this becomes relevant later on) The school had no 6th form so DD chose to go another local school with a 6th form.

She is now in Y13 and the two years at 6th form have been hell. On joining she made a group of friends, but she always felt they were never very interested in her and in Y12 they all turned on her (calling her nasty names), stopped talking to her / blocked her. She had absolutely no idea why this was.

DD found another friend, who had also been dropped by this group. Fast forward 6 months, this friend drops her out of the blue, wont talk to DD, tells everyone she hates DD. No one can understand why this is, including DD and her teachers. DD now has no friends at all and none of her peers speak to her. She says everyone hates her (theme here?) and is completely isolated. She spends every day at 6th form alone and no one talks to her. School say they cant understand it, DD is polite, kind and a nice girl and their answer was to have referred her for counselling with youth centre.

Things we have done in the last 2 years to help DD find friends and mix with people:

DD has been a horse rider since she was small. She saved for years to buy her own pony. We joined Pony Club in order to get involved in events and meet people, but 5 months in pony got injured and DD can no longer take part, so no more opportunity there.

DD got a part time job. She enjoyed the job and does well but no other young people there. So, she got a second part time job in a pub - she says no one talks to her and she does not know how to join in, they shut her out. She went alone to the work Christmas party and end up sitting with the 'mums' at their table as there were no seats on the 'younger ones' table and they said they couldn't add another chair.

In the last few months, DD volunteered at stables to help out and to try to meet some people. Finds the girls there very 'cliquey' and has made no friends. DD confidence now at rock bottom. I have to admit from what I have seen the girls are not particularly welcoming or nice to DD. I don't know why though.

We have been to the GP, to ask to be referred for ADHD or Autism assessment. GP said she does not meet the criteria and needs to be referred by SENDCo at school. School say DD does not meet the criteria and will not refer her.

DD has lost a lot of weight and I suspect some bulimia. We have asked GP for support with this and as blood tests came back normal GP says no current reason to refer any further, try to eat little and often.

This half term just gone, DD friends from secondary school (who all moved out of area after secondary school) all arranged to meet up in London. They did not invite DD, she found out through their social media posts. DD is devastated.

I honestly have no idea what to do next, or how to help her? DD has flat refused to apply for Uni - she cant bear the thought of being isolated again.

For context, DD has a younger brother who has a wide social circle, many friends and no problems, She, nor we, can understand why it is so difficult for her.

When DD was at Primary school her teacher said to me ' some children just get bullied and your DD is one of them'. This sticks in my mind. Is this it? Do we just accept that DD is one of those people and this is how she must go through life?!

Thank you if you have read this far!

I have no practical advice just solidarity. I’ve got a son who doesn’t seem to have any close friends and does his own thing. He has got a diagnosis of Social Communication Disorder, which I think seems to get more pronounced as he’s got older, and it wouldn’t enter his head to strike up a conversation with anybody or ask personal questions. I thought he’d meet his own tribe at 6th form but he’s not.

I hope your daughter finds her friends.

The GP isn’t qualified to say that she doesn’t meet criteria. She’s on the borderline between the Paediatric and adult diagnostic pathway but will no doubt be 18 by the time an assessment appointment comes through. You have a right to request an assessment.
If you feel that a diagnosis might help then I’d try a different GP and take some evidence. You could look at the AQ online. This is the adolescent one which is meant to be up to the age of 15.

https://novopsych.com/assessments/diagnosis/autism-spectrum-quotient-adolescent/

Autism can present differently in women and girls and girls are often better at masking.
Are there any other factors that lead you to suspect that she may be autistic? Early developmental difficulties or any sensory needs?
Hope you get some answers. There are lots of books out there but Martian in the Playground is a good one as it has lots of anecdotal evidence about experiences at school and not fitting in.

https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/products/martian-in-the-playground-book-clare-sainsbury-9781849200004?sku=GOR005029333&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=19553277260&gbraid=0AAAAADZzAIBEp7_u8J9qHnvpiLPsQgkiy&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgK3x4MDykgMVeaVQBh0xPC0DEAQYASABEgJ4qvD_BwE

Thank you for this information and the links, this is helpful.
We have tried to explore Autism / ADHD because I am aware that this can often be a cause of social difficulties. Also because DD also has coeliac disease which is common in people with Autism / ADHD.
Maybe I am clutching at straws, but in the absence of any other explanations for her social challenges it may be worth exploring.

Everything here screams Autism. GPs generally know absolutely nothing about this and are encouraged to manage the growing number of requests to assess.so won't encourage access to assessment.

I feel the absolute priority here is accessing an assessment for your daughter - no matter who says she doesn't seem Autistic. You can pay if that's affordable. We accessed a wonderful female assessor who assessed in conjunction with other professionals as part of a multi disciplinary assessment.

The advantage in an assessment and diagnosis is your daughter knowing who she is. Being Autistic is a state of being, not an added disorder. It's who somebody is. This identity element is imo really important. It's validation, it's affirmation of reality and it's a pathway to exploring ones true needs ( once they know), to make connections with others who can relate, it will help with any necessary accomodations in future in work for example.

I agree with the previous poster. It is worth getting an asd and adhd assessment. It sounds like she could be not picking up on social cues and upsetting people as a result, given that so many people have fallen out with her. It might be helpful to look for other neurodivergent teens as I find neurodivergent people often get on well together becuase they have a shared way of understanding the world.

How much of what you’ve said is fact (things you know for sure have happened/been said/you’ve witnessed) and how much is her perception.
It seems unlikely that everyone at school ‘hates’ her. They may not engage with her much, they probably barely know her most of them.
Is the pony permanently out of action??

Thanks for replying. And yes, I think you are absolutely right, not all of what she perceives to be people ‘hating her’ will be correct!
I know some of it is factual, I have witnessed it, seen the messages on her phone or it’s been corroborated by teachers. But I don’t imagine for a moment that all of her peers at 6th form dislike her……I think she just believes this based on experiences. And I think she is sensitive to it.
Sadly her pony is permanently broken (tendon) and will never be sound enough for rejoining Pony Club activities. Which is another big upset that she has had to deal with. Still she has kept on going to school everyday and showing up to do her pony every day, so that’s something to be proud of!

Thanks for replying. Can I ask how you accessed the multi disciplinary assessment? Was this via NHS or privately? And if privately, where did you start / with what type of assessment or practitioner? Thanks x

So sorry you’re going through this. It really is hell. From my experience, it’s a shame your DD went to a sixth form as I have found that a larger mixed college can be easier to find your tribe in. Sometimes we think a smaller or more academic setting can be best for quirky kids but often a larger more diverse setting can be much easier to navigate as there are often other quirky kids there too. Uni could be wonderful for her, if she finds an inclusive type environment. She could have a gap year to build her back up and to take the time to investigate Universities. It is really hard, but she will eventually find her tribe. Let her know that there are so many others in her position, she is in no way the only 17 year old to be struggling with this.

What a nasty thing for her primary school teacher to say!! Just awful
Does her brother have friends with older siblings? I'm sorry, this sounds tough.

You can ask to follow the Right To Choose pathway and your GP has to refer you via there. You can find a ‘private’ company that accepts these referrals and go through them via this method. Do have a read on the actual process… it’s been a while

Is your DD struggling to be friendly and sociable with adults? It’s not uncommon for some kids to be “old souls” who don’t register with contemporaries but get on very well with much older colleagues or neighbours. I see it a lot in kids whose hobbies are not the usual music and pubs.

Did you model friendships and socialising to your daughter as she was growing up? If she has never seen healthy friendships - including easing out the rough and the smooth, and making up after disagreements and disappointments - she may just not know how to make or maintain friendships.

Please look into Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria... it may help you understand what is going on.
my daughter is 9 and struggles in the same way. She is also kind, thoughtful, funny but just doesn't 'fit in' and feels this massively. Sending a hug as I know how much this hurts as a mum. Do you have an RDA group tha she could volunteer at? She may meet some other like minded girls x

I feel so sad reading this. It very much mirrors my DD experiences, including the tightly controlled minimal eating. I used to think, do these parents of school ‘friends’ have any idea how these girls treat others? She was basically ostracised for the whole of year 11. She wasn’t interested in getting drunk at parties etc. but never even got invited anyway and she never gossips about others. I think also there was an element of ‘queen bee’ and the bystanders who could have been friends were just glad the mocking and ignoring wasn’t directed to them. I wish secondary schools would focus on the role of bystanders in bullying a bit more to be honest.

She did go to uni in the end and met her very small tribe, who she lived with for 2 years and they are still friendly, although don’t live near sadly. She enjoyed being away and independent but didn’t get the ordinary full uni experience I feel.

She met her boyfriend ( who is 4 years older) through a part time job and he has given her a lot of confidence and also she has managed to build her social confidence through his wider friendship circle and through her ( much) older sisters wider circle . Also now she is working full time in a different job and has started to make a few friends there. She definitely gets on better with people older than herself and those who are a lot younger.

Talking about it together over the years, we felt that she has some behaviours which might link to autism, including sensory issues. However, she’s not interested in having a diagnosis at the moment. We watched a programme on autism by Chris Packham and there was a young woman who seemed very confident but she had a script in her head for things like what to say at the checkout if the cashier spoke to her, my DD said I do that! Also my DD thinks about eye contact with others, is she giving enough? Should she look away now? And so on. I was stunned. I wonder if those teenage girls at my DD secondary school could sense that she is a little different somehow and maybe doesn’t read the room or body language of others? I could never work out why they were so deliberately mean. I remember her sobbing on me when she was 17 saying why don’t people like me? She is such a kind and gentle girl and it was so hard to hear.

I’m just posting here to say we were once in this place too and things did get better, but it took a lot of courage and determination on her part and a lot of pushing herself out of comfort zones. It sounds like your DD is trying to do these things. Maybe a different part time job would help? My DD ended up working in an DIY type place and mostly worked with young men and this took the pressure off a bit of feeling like she needed to make friends, and she started to enjoy life a bit more. However I do feel that the bullying has scarred her permanently in some ways.

I really hope your DD manages to make a friend soon OP. I know how you feel. Just one nice friendly face to see in the week would make all the difference.

I can't offer help just an appreciation of how hard it is for your daughter and for her loving mother. I have a son who has not got friends despite being a lovely person.It has gone on years past school and into his 20s, and it has robbed his confidence. Your daughter is young and I think there is always hope. Girls can be really awful to the quiet one when they are at school. My friends daughter had a horrible time at school but at university she slowly made friends and a boyfriend. Maybe it might be worth paying privately for an autism test, if you can afford it. My son doesn't quite fit that profile either but we both have considered it. Although my son is an incredible worry to me he has slowly developed solo hobbies and interests that occupy him as he's got older and will take himself off to the cinema by himself. He still would love a circle of friends but he's a bit more self sufficient and a little more accepting of the situation. I despair of the school system that does not address the issue or exclusion and bullying. Surely the curriculum should include something on being kind to your peers?! Here's wishing for a better future for our children.

Also wanted to offer solidarity. This could be my DD you are describing. She is 23 now and much happier with a circle (albeit small) of friends. She went through pretty much the same as your DD. It’s agonising to watch but i hope their paths continue to align and your DD ends up in the same situation. As a mother, I completely identify with your angst. X

This could have been me at your daughter's age! Autistic, with so many fresh starts at new schools (I went to six schools for primary and secondary, plus college), clubs, areas, hoping to reinvent myself as someone people wanted to spend time with. As unhelpful as it is, this is something that only time will solve, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to help other than support her when she comes to you to comiserate.

After many painful years, I am twenty-four now, married to my very best friend, and much to my shock we have found ourselves friends with a lovely couple we met in our new town. I'm slowly making friends at my new church, who want to spend time with me, which is something I couldn't have imagined even this time last year. And I'm friends with my lovely sister-in-law. I've gone from exclusively socialising with my family and husband (though this was still an upgrade from my prior life of having zero social interaction with anyone I wasn't biologically related to), to now having almost too much on. This week I've already gone out for drinks and dinner with my small group at church, and on the weekend I'm having lunch with my sister-in-law and then taking my neices to softplay on my own, and then board games with our couple friends the next day. My social life is so full now that I am half waiting for it all to go wrong, but so far everyone seems to like me and genuinely want to be my friend!

Your daughter will get there, it's just going to take her a little longer than most.

Sounds like my school years. I was also diagnosed with autism and ADHD as an adult.

I really struggled with friendships as a teen. But then at uni, everything just sort of "clicked" and i found socialising easier.

She will be ok, OP. It just takes time. I'm sure that the older she gets, the easier it will be.

Gosh I feel so much for you, reading this. I’m on both private and NHS diagnostic teams and I see adult and children and I think you’ve had good advice here. The RtC pathway might be helpful but what’s really helpful is finding a diagnostic team who might actually offer practical advice along with a diagnosis, rather than just the diagnosis.

Your DD sounds lovely, but if she’s neurodiverse when it’s tough making friends with the ‘beige’ people (all the same as each other!). Agree also your GP is not qualified to say if she meets criteria. Makes me so cross to hear this.

Thank you for this and I’m so pleased to hear things are working out for you. This gives us some hope!

There are other disorders which affect social skills. If she doesn't have any other symptoms of autism, could it be something like this?

Oops, link didn't work and I cannot edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder

Another person here who would say keep considering autism regardless of advice given (although a diagnosis is an explanation rather than a solution). Girls are masters of masking! There is also a strong correlation of eating disorders and autism. Heart breaks for her OP. Sometimes university works out a lot better, if they find their tribe.

My DD was similar. And after a gap year she started university but it did not work out for her. We all suspect ADHD/autism but at the moment she doesn't want to pursue a diagnosis so she's going to have counseling but with this angle in mind.

I don't understand why this isn't a big red flag to help girls get an earlier diagnosis.Particualry when teachers and adults are scratching their heads and seeing a nice, kind girl in front of them.

My DD never had a best friend or a group of friends. We kept assuming it would get easier as she got older.

This doesn’t sound right at all! The dd is lonely and wants to make friends not cold and detached?