17 year old daughter has no friends

[Lowndes]

I am at my wits end and a total loss as to how to help my daughter, do we just give up and assume the world is against her.... because it feels that way. I would never say that to her, but I am struggling to manage or cope with her hurt and upset.

This is a long post, I am sorry, but it has also been a long term issue!

17 year old DD has always struggled with friendships. She didn't really find her 'crowd' at Primary school, although she had one close friend who unfortunately dumped DD in Y6 and then went on to bully DD, quite badly. To the point that when it came to secondary school, DD elected to go to a different school to the majority of her primary class mates.

Secondary school early years was up and down, but eventually DD found a small group of friends whom she remained close to until leaving in Y11. DD was only friends with this group though and said everyone else disliked her (this becomes relevant later on) The school had no 6th form so DD chose to go another local school with a 6th form.

She is now in Y13 and the two years at 6th form have been hell. On joining she made a group of friends, but she always felt they were never very interested in her and in Y12 they all turned on her (calling her nasty names), stopped talking to her / blocked her. She had absolutely no idea why this was.

DD found another friend, who had also been dropped by this group. Fast forward 6 months, this friend drops her out of the blue, wont talk to DD, tells everyone she hates DD. No one can understand why this is, including DD and her teachers. DD now has no friends at all and none of her peers speak to her. She says everyone hates her (theme here?) and is completely isolated. She spends every day at 6th form alone and no one talks to her. School say they cant understand it, DD is polite, kind and a nice girl and their answer was to have referred her for counselling with youth centre.

Things we have done in the last 2 years to help DD find friends and mix with people:

DD has been a horse rider since she was small. She saved for years to buy her own pony. We joined Pony Club in order to get involved in events and meet people, but 5 months in pony got injured and DD can no longer take part, so no more opportunity there.

DD got a part time job. She enjoyed the job and does well but no other young people there. So, she got a second part time job in a pub - she says no one talks to her and she does not know how to join in, they shut her out. She went alone to the work Christmas party and end up sitting with the 'mums' at their table as there were no seats on the 'younger ones' table and they said they couldn't add another chair.

In the last few months, DD volunteered at stables to help out and to try to meet some people. Finds the girls there very 'cliquey' and has made no friends. DD confidence now at rock bottom. I have to admit from what I have seen the girls are not particularly welcoming or nice to DD. I don't know why though.

We have been to the GP, to ask to be referred for ADHD or Autism assessment. GP said she does not meet the criteria and needs to be referred by SENDCo at school. School say DD does not meet the criteria and will not refer her.

DD has lost a lot of weight and I suspect some bulimia. We have asked GP for support with this and as blood tests came back normal GP says no current reason to refer any further, try to eat little and often.

This half term just gone, DD friends from secondary school (who all moved out of area after secondary school) all arranged to meet up in London. They did not invite DD, she found out through their social media posts. DD is devastated.

I honestly have no idea what to do next, or how to help her? DD has flat refused to apply for Uni - she cant bear the thought of being isolated again.

For context, DD has a younger brother who has a wide social circle, many friends and no problems, She, nor we, can understand why it is so difficult for her.

When DD was at Primary school her teacher said to me ' some children just get bullied and your DD is one of them'. This sticks in my mind. Is this it? Do we just accept that DD is one of those people and this is how she must go through life?!

Thank you if you have read this far!

I would honestly recommend her to get a job somewhere like Nandos. It is very social and most staff are friends and of a similar age and socialise together and there is arranged nights out etc

Thank you, this is helpful. Where did you find a therapist who specialised in friendship coaching skills / what sort of therapist did you look for?

Her brother thinks DD is too worried about how people perceive her and so she is not confident in interacting. I would tend to agree- but this is the effect of being ostracised, I don’t think it’s the cause.
No cousins locally unfortunately.
I was observing DD today at the hairdressers , particularly in mind of my post here, and I have to say she was chatting away with the hairdresser, engaging and empathetic. She was making the Hairdresser laugh and generally maintaining a decent conversation with her for over an hour.
DD has had great feedback from work for her customer service skills and has told us about many different types of people/customer situations she’s managed. I think she just finds people her own age intimidating and this is causing her to clam up. I also know she is very worried about saying or doing the wrong thing around her peers. And yet in other situations she can be very confident. Perhaps she is an expert at masking.
I think we need to look to pursue autism/ADHD assessment route.

I have PMed you.

But what you can do is ask your daughter does she think about what to say or how to act before she speaks to people her own age - because if she does this is an example of masking.

Have you asked her why she finds people her age intimidating? If its because she feels unsure of what they are thinking / or unsure of how to interact with them then that's another possible example of autism.

This was much like me as a young adult. I do still struggle with friendships but have made long term friends.

Uni would be great for her.

I know so many people who struggled at secondary school a college and found their people at university. Tell her to hang in there. With social media and the like, growing up now is harder than ever. But by uni, most kids are kinder and more mature.

From personal experience I would strongly caution against religious youth groups. I absolutely loved mine at the time and it definitely was easier to socialize within that very structured and inclusive setting BUT I was also highly vulnerable to the more extreme parts of religious teaching, I so desperately wanted to please and be a full part of this group that finally felt like they liked me, and I took it all very literally and was borderline groomed by one of the adults there. Overall the repercussions did so so much damage to my early adult life and set me back further in ability to socialize in non church settings. I don’t think religious groups are ever a safe choice for teens who are socially vulnerable.

But I do agree that explicitly being taught social skills is helpful. I benefitted a lot from having two (differently) socially capable friends when I was a young adult. I observed how they interacted with people, little things like how to react when they made a mistake or said something wrong, what to do if they said hi to someone and didn’t get a response, how to end a conversation without being awkward, how to invite someone or ask a favor or whatever in a breezy way, how to respond to a compliment… so many little situations where I was awkward and literally just needed a cheat sheet and some ideas what to do.

As a final note - I started to be okay at social stuff (never great but passable) in my 20s but then didn’t cope well in the workplace because that’s a whole other set of rules and norms and so on. Still struggling with my career late 30s. So explicit teaching how to think about job applications and interacting with colleagues and networking could be useful too, at some point. Obviously can’t deal with everything at once, and she might find it easier than I did to make that transition.

I was like this at school and my dd is too. We have just had some major upset today about her being humiliated and excluded. I went to uni and still have friends I made there so I’m hoping that dd will too. I now recognise that I may have ADHD, and dd may too and that rejection sensitivity has played a big part. Dd is very sweet and kind and I just think she isn’t willing or able to change herself in order to fit in the crowd. In some ways I’m glad of this but it’s very tough as a teenager.

Does she really enjoy being social or is happy alone and with the family. If I was her, I would never poo poo the Mums table. I had all sorts of friends in my life, all ages, both genders

Some random thoughts- volunteer at scouts- supportive and structured
board games clubs - seem inclusive
take a year out - don’t stress re own age - socialising with older people fine
if she goes to uni aim for corridor living in halls catered not being in a flat share situation

Feel like your writing about my teen years. Why are you pushing her there's no need if she is perfectly happy in her own company. This so reminds me of my unhappy teens constantly being pushed to make friends and trying to please parents, my brother's were social butterflies I wasn't. Eventually they got the message but I spent a few unhappy years being pushed into this and that to supposedly make friends. I hated it, I still like my own company oh and I also did the horse thing and still have horses, that's my happy place.. Totally agree cliques in stables so I do my own thing. Same for work groups of gossipers, story tellers etc which is not for me so I do my job be polite and leave. I recently got diagnosed with autism but it took till 29 to be diagnosed. Either way we don't all want friends, we don't all need friends, we can manage perfectly happy on our own. It's like asking a person who suffers from a lot of downs to be permanently happy it's an impossible ask plus why would you force it. I now have several kids and 2 love there own company and I will never force them to be what there not social butterflies like there siblings

@Lowndes She sounds lovely and if she can keep up a conversation in an easy / relaxed manner for an hour then it sounds to me like her school mates are the problem, to be honest.

It may be a bit late, but I just remembered that Trinity offers Speech and Drama exams and also "Communication" exams (https://www.trinitycollege.com/qualifications/communication-skills). This may not be exactly what she needs (it seems to focus on public speaking) but someone who teaches their syllabuses may also be able to teach her more general communication skills? Just a thought.

That’s the problem, she’s desperately unhappy and just wants, in her words, a few friends to hang out with and to be a teenager with. She once said to me that all she wants is someone her own age to talk to and to support each other. Just one or two people she can call friends.
If she didn’t want any friends or to socialise then I wouldn’t be worried about that, sometimes I like a bit of me time -so I understand that.
It’s the reverse that’s the problem. She’s sees her brother going out and about and socialising and says why can’t that be me.

I don’t think religious groups are ever a safe choice for teens who are socially vulnerable.
Very good advice.

Can I ask how you met your children's father if you weren't sociable? And did you not miss human connection before having a family? My child has no friends so I'm just trying to understand what that might mean for him.

He’s been through the diagnosis pathway and SCD was what they came up with.

Wow this could have been written by me regarding my Daughter. Mine is on the waitlist for ADHD/Autism referral but Camhs suspect Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria. It truly is heart breaking to witness and see. Do try and push for a referral too and right to choose was the path we went down also.

Hi, I know this post is quite old but after a sleepless night, of me crying and worrying yet again. I seek out these kind of posts to find comfort that me and my daughter are not alone.

my beautiful, friendly, kind daughter is 16 and never was about to find a friendship group. In primary school she desperately wanted to be included more within her group of friends but she was always the one who they would run away from or leave out. This continued into secondary school, a new friendship group but always the one who just kind of was there, never included in meet ups outside of school etc. never waited for if she was still eating lunch that kind of thing.

shes found it really hard this summer, desperately wanting to spend the warm days hanging with friends and doing all the usual things teenagers do, she’s into all the girly kind of things, hair, makeup, shopping…boys 🙄 but has no one to share this all with. She desperately tried to make plans this summer but everyone was always “busy” but the she would find out they are all out together.

she seems very down. And so am I, iv worried about it for years but lately it’s really got me down, I’m a shell of a person at the min, always zoning out day dreaming. It’s on my mind 247. I’m so so sad for her.

she said something a while ago that always stuck with me, she said she would love to know what it feels like to have a best friend, her own person who loved being around her. That broke my heart.

i am booking doctors for us both this week. Maybe talking will help.

OK she needs to do therapy. My DD has mild autism and since therapy has become more social . Has more friends and is enjoying life.there are things she tells her brilliant therapist she won't tell parent .
My DD is now in badminton , clubs, has been to a party or 2 TG . Before this nothing!!! Get her a psychotherapist to explore why this isolation is happening.
Does she miss social cues ??? It's so hard.i have been there

Sorry just to add,we were advised acceptance and commitment therapy for DD- ACT it's been fab. She is braver socially. Best of luck. It's awful. I think university- fresh start with her own age group and going with strategies to foster friends through therapy .

The thing is she wants friends, she wants to go out, she wants to socialise, she just has no one to do it with. And no one ever really attached themselves to her even though she seems to be just like all other teenagers, funny, bubbly. She’s no different personality wise to my teenage nieces, who have lots of friends. So I just can’t think why she’s never had a best friend or been included.

i have a feeling the doctors will just brush her off. But it will be worth a try.

any tips on what to say?

many thanks

could have been me st her age. I did tonnes of sport and hobbies. Allowed me to find friends but in a structured way where the social expectations are clear.
horse riding is super clicky. Can she find an easier going hobby?
i did soccer, athletics, tennis, scouts, volunteers in nature based activity. The more typical boy sports and activities could be easier.

My DD is ADHD and we and her think now AuAdhd as she definitely has ASD traits.
OP you post screams neurodiversity at me too.
DD is funny clever chatty etc esp with adults and younger kids but very much on the edge of social groups. Sees all her old friends going out and doing a lot constantly at 16. She’s not part of them anymore.
Has 3 quirky friends but is alone a lot. Games on line with people who obv interact differently.
Shes going to a college with a high number of ND students and support on purpose.
A diagnosis can really help them understand themselves. She also tells people so they know she may interact a bit oddly

I’d also recommend groups where quirky / geeky or ND or teens are more likely to hang out. Awful as that sounds, they can find their tribe. My DD gets on great with other ND people too. They just seem to get each other. Also agree re hobbies where there are rules and structure and clear expectations. Eg cadets, running club, park run volunteering, any other volunteering etc

All of this @Lowndes