Constant detentions for skirt length

[Falcon1]

My DD is 13. Since starting year 8 she’s had weekly detentions for rolling up her skirt and has been on report. She was also on report twice last year for the same thing. I keep getting emails from the school about it, but really - what can I do? This last detention we’ve said enough is enough and have grounded her but she is entirely unbothered. Her take is that she wants to wear her skirt the way she likes it and will keep doing so, and that the teachers should stop being so obsessed with her legs being on display. I kind of agree to be honest, particularly as she is doing fine academically. But I worry she’s going to be in detention her whole school career and it’s making her hate the school.

any advice most gratefully received!

In your place I would pass this back to the school.

You have provided her with the correct uniform and she is wearing it when she leaves home.

Ask the school why they have chosen a uniform skirt that can be rolled up?

Could they change the skirt to culottes or a design that can't be rolled up?

@Greentulipriding

Many posters have shared examples
of unacceptable lengths being worn - including showing buttocks and/or underwear or more.

Why do you not believe this?

I have a walk to the train station every morning and there is a high school on my way. The amount of butt cheeks etc I have seen is seriously ridiculous.

As to why do I care (not my kids, my kids dont go to that school) I care because as I am walking I also see the insane amount of men in cars / vans literally breaking their necks to get a longer look at the girls, or the amount of men walking behind me who literally stare at these young girls. It’s totally gross.

What do you mean ‘disrespected?’ She’s the one being disrespectful and the rationale is that the school uniform rules state the skirt length and what happens if that isn’t followed. I would just tell her that if she’s not prepared to follow school rules she will lose her phone. End of.

My school got round it by having a slit up the back of the skirt... so we wore them longer so the slit was below th but (they were supposed to be 2in above the kne.. I'd say they were nearer 4)

Buy her a pleated skirt.

Be aligned with schools view on this as currently you are supporting your daughter to roll up her skirt. I don’t think parents realise how short the girls roll them.

Your daughter was 11/12 when this became an issue. She isn’t an adult, you are and you need to parent here, not ask what you’re supposed to do. She isn’t being victimised and no, the teachers are not obsessed with her legs!!!!

Exactly. After explaining the school’s rationale for uniform etiquette, I’d ask for her rationale as to why she insists on exposing more of her legs than sanctioned by uniform etiquette?

@Falcon1 You say DD is academically bright and does better having things explained than forced upon her, yet you’ve not mentioned the outcome of this first obvious step which I assume you’ve taken with her?

I also feel her saying she feels ‘disrespected’ is a bit of a stretch and shows an attitude at odds with the personality you have in your head of an otherwise kind and compliant child who eg does all her chores etc.

My school got round it by having a slit up the back of the skirt... so we wore them longer so the slit was below th but (they were supposed to be 2in above the kne.. I'd say they were nearer 4)

Schools can't win. Do nothing.. People complain. Pull up girls on skirts... People complain. Ban skirts... People complain.

I used to roll mine up in the 60s! We had spot checks, no more than 5" above the knee when kneeling.
Just un roll in school?

My dd rolls her skirt and when she leaves in the morning it’s fine but I picked her up the other day and it was almost skimming her bum! I made her roll it down before she got in the car and have bought trousers and told her if she gets anymore demerits for her skirt length (she’s had one already) she will be wearing trousers and I will be hiding her skirts! She has to respect the school rules!

Our local secondary school banned skirts a couple of years ago. They'd been having issues with skirt lengths for years and now everyone wears trousers. A few complaints but it's solved the problem

She’s breaking a rule. There are consequences. Done.
as her parent, I’m shocked that your attitude is that you agree with her.

Buy really long calf-length skirts if you can? That way, if she rolls them at the waist, she gets a spare tyre!

Agree. It’s all about being respectful to others and appropriate for the occasion isn’t it. I wouldn’t wear a crop top to a job interview but I might wear one on a night out. My DS wouldn’t turn up to college topless in a pair of shorts and flip flops but he would wear them to the park sunbathing. Nobody needs to expose their legs / bum in school. Unless perhaps the lesson is cross country running or similar.

I explained to the DDs that with a father who is ex-military and a mother who was a nurse that uniform standards would be followed to the letter. Mostly because in life we have to follow some rules, and employers will have expectations that if not followed can lead to you losing that job - uniform is a great starting place on teaching that expectation. A gateway skill to behaving in an expected manner.

If she's old enough to make her own choices and continue then she'll also be old enough to deal with the consequences. I'd leave her to it to an extent, while making it plain I do not agree with her position.

(My rule is if I support the school, but only have a mild conversation if they've had a detention - BUT if I have to pick up from an afterschool detention because they weren't on the transport and it impacts my working day there will be additional consequences)

I would have a chat with her, explain that this has been happening in schools for years. It’s completely normal for teenagers to rebel against school uniform rules. Explain that so long as she keeps breaking the rules she’ll keep getting detentions so it’s entirely up to her whether she keeps getting detentions or not. You could mention trousers as an option.

Keep calm so you keep a good relationship with her at home. It’s not a huge issue either way and it’s good practice for her to decide if a short skirt is worth the detentions. You could then just let the school know that you have had a conversation with her and she is fully aware of the consequences of not following the rules.

Going against the grain here, but I wouldn't enforce a rule that I personally find petty. I'd leave it entirely up to her - if she thinks wearing her skirts shorter is worth the detention then fine, let her choose that route. I'd try to help her to think about she wants and chooses for herself, from a position of autonomy and power rather than defiance. I wouldn't side with the school to enforce further punishment/restriction.

At my grandchildren’s senior school detentions are looked at very seriously and would mean no entry to 6th form which is highly desirable.School is extremely strict and rules are rules.However I know this is not how many schools enforce rules. As the weather is getting colder thick black tights may be the answer.

Girls are expected to suddenly go from have a child's innocent body to knowing that their woman's body has all sorts of secret and disgusting power and meaning and really they're just walking around the same as they always did. That's fucked up and enraging.

Having said that it is a shame and a pain in the arse to get into a battle with the school about it. I can see why she's digging her heels in, because she's a teenager. I think once a kid has decided the 'rules are rules' argument is bullshit you can't effectively argue against it. You could suggest to her that it is in her best interests to have a good relationship with school though. All the best schmoozers, deal makers, and politicians know that sometimes it's a good idea just to toe the line so they can get away with other things that are more useful to them like accidental homework forgetting or wanting someone to send their GCSE paper off for a remark.

Also she needs to not piss you off if all the juice from school is wasting your time. You sound like you have a good relationship with her (i.e
You actually discuss things not just punish like some people here advocate) so that's probably your best option. Or just let her get on with it.

She chooses to break the school rules, she takes the consequences. There isn't much you can do about this specific thing, no. Peer pressure is a powerful thing.

As a teacher, I'm not sure what's more tedious, having to enforce uniform rules or having to listen to teenagers whining about them (often because they think teachers really, really care about what colour their socks are or how short their skirt is). No, the vast majority of us don't care about visible legs or wrong coloured socks. We are just doing our job.

School uniform is an anachronism imo. Most of the rest of the world seems to manage just fine without it. Unfortunately though, UK parents like it (until their dc fall foul of the rules). They still seem to believe that smart uniform equals good school and well-behaved kids. So it's a marketing tool really.

You’re her parent. It’s your job to parent her, not the schools. Why are you scared to discipline your daughter for breaking the schools rules?

Sadly, girls do wear their skirts so short that their underwear is on show - especially if they also wear a blazer and bag as the bag can pull clothing up this displaying even more underwear. A colleague of mine was investigated because a pupil accused him of purposely looking up her skirt. She was in front of him going up the stairs at school. Fortunately CCTV proved that he had done no such thing - in fact he looked down at the floor the whole time he went up the stairs. Interestingly, that school now has a uniform policy whereby all pupils wear trousers.

Expelling someone from school for wearing a short skirt is obviously disproportionate - but a school won't keep issuing detentions for the same thing for ever. This will start to become classed as continuous breaches of the school rules, which will go to the next level of sanction ie suspension. If a few of those accumulate that could, ultimately, lead to permanent exclusion. It's the same as employment - a disciplinary issue may only warrant a written warning, but keep doing it and you can end up being dismissed.

Presumably she signed up to a code of conduct or similar where she agreed to wear the uniform.

We get it: she’s a teenager and thinks rules are for “other people”/Randomers/whatever.

She has quite consciously made the decision, so weekly, or even daily detentions, and escalating measures are completely up to her.
She probably feels this is a battle of wills “showing them”. She should be made to lose that battle.

Leave her to it. Based on my experience (I work in secondary schools), if they're giving her frequent detentions, it must be extremely short, unless they're one of these super academies where they have very strict rules.

I can guarantee you the teachers do not want to "obsess" over her legs being on display. They're probably quite grossed out by seeing too much when she walks up the stairs or whatever. If it's any consolation, if I turned up for work at school in a micro mini and bare legs, I'd get sent home...possibly sectioned too 😂

Our local school has a knee length kilt as part of the uniform and yes up they go and it's arse cheeks to the wind.

It's always been known as the awkward age - adolescent girls are incredibly vulnerable to their own silliness and ignorance coupled with hormones screaming GET ME PREGNANT.

Compare with the local sixth form girls just a few years older - hoodies, baggy jeans, trackies.

Have you given her The Talk? About how vulnerable she is to predators who are drawn to underage girls? And how the intense pressures girls are under to sexualise benefit those men and harm girls?