Threats from a 14 year old

[Namechange2272]

My 14 yr old DS thinks he can do what he wants. He has started going out with a girl and she is nice enough but his attitude stinks and has even before she came along. He goes out to see her when he wants and is neglecting his homework and is expecting a fully cooked dinner when he comes back at that time. Tonight when I collected him he demanded I let him go to the shop for a fizzy drink. When I said no he had a full on tantrum and started roaring and shouting. He went for DH and DH had to physically restrain him. He then smashed his phone and it is broken..

When he came downstairs again he demanded I brought his phone to be fixed tomorrow and when I said no he said he's not going into school tomorrow if I won't do it. When I told him I would cut off the phone completely if he doesn't start respecting us he told me he would hang himself.

I'm so fucking exhausted from him threatening to harm himself when he doesn't get his own way.

I agree with this. I don't think he is ND. I think we have been too lax with him.

I am not autistic. I work in the sector and am well aware of women masking and how it can present. That isn't me.

Another one who doesn't think your son is NT.

You are describing behaviours very similar to my son. He's diagnosed ASD and has a PDA profile.

No one would imagine he is autistic from his outward behaviours. He is a master masker.

Autism is a spectrum,
it's also hereditary,
your dh has it ,your daughter has it .
He's masking at school and like a bottle of pop he explodes at home .
He's very clearly autistic,from what you are saying.

Hi @Namechange2272 I think you have a good sense of your own son. From all that you've said, it does sound like he is having emotional and impulsive reactions, as is fairly normal at this age. I was also like this as a teen and it's how my DS is too. I never came close to suicide or any real self harm but it was like the only card I could pull out when I felt angry and thwarted. I'd be careful about the tough love approach or trying to scare him into submission. Gentle, calm and understanding has helped our DS a lot more. As with yours he's generally a sweet and rational boy. But he'll still flip out and be verbally abusive when faced with something unexpected he doesn't want to do. My DH's response is to go head to head and it just escalates. I'm much more willing to let him vent and let the steam out and discuss it later. Even if he's swearing to high heaven or making threats. Just cancelling phone or grounding our son or whatever people here are saying to do definitely doesn't help in our case. That would just make it more likely that he would act out and leave the house or refuse school. Setting agreed boundaries and expectations has helped so much. Then there aren't so many surprise situations. The last thing you want to be doing is making threats and punishments up on the fly as the angry episode is unfolding.

I have a son with ASD ( diagnosed age 13 after trying to get help through CAMHS (useless) and eventually going via school) and a lot of the behaviour sounds identical so it’s definitely worth looking into, especially with the anxiety too.
As it’s such a big spectrum he can appear high functioning but be struggling with anxiety and emotions that only show at home. It’s worth ruling out properly and trying some of the techniques for PDA too to see if they work. My son’s behaviour has improved since diagnosis as we can talk about differences and why he’s feeling like that. Traditional boundaries and punishments don’t work for my son and many with ASD ( especially PDA profile) so it’s worth bearing in mind if traditional methods aren’t working too as they tend to make things worse.

Next time he goes for your DH call the police. You say he's not ND so he knows exactly what he's doing. Maybe calling the police would give him a shock and make him see that you're not prepared to put up with his bullshit. As a pp said, he's threatening self harm because he sees that it works as a manipulation tactic. So sorry you're having to put up with it

This is spot on in every respect. We have been where you are, and no one including us believed there was ND involved but finally after 3 yrs CAMHS did diagnosis ADHD . High functioning, impeccable masking when out of the house - a terrible terrible time. Engage social services as they can be helpful at linking all the agencies together

I just can't believe how many people are living this reality behind the scenes. It's not until it becomes your life ( like yours, like mine) that you see how many ND kids/ people there are! Many undiagnosed and appearing ' typical ' in many ways.

No one could imagine that a GP, or a CAMHS person, or the school, or psychologists, even a psychiatrist would not know what Autism/ADHD looks like! I don't blame those services for that - it takes a detailed full assesment by accredited experts to be sure. But believe that they absolutely don't have a clue if it isn't blindingly obvious. And it costs money.

What I do blame these services for though is the absolute endemic gaslighting and trauma they inflict on the parents of these kids. And then the kids themselves in turn.

One thing that made me fight like a dog for an assessment ( we had to go private because of gaslighting and refusal to assess by NHS) was actually for my own needs and the fear I was going to look like a safeguarding problem, and incompetent parent who couldn't manage their child. Then the school rubbish ' it's your parenting/ discipline style' etc etc and then sat SS get involved, again most will be clueless and are stretched so will not be able to go out their way to help anyway. Later down the line you have the worry of any criminal justice stuff ( significant risk in this ND population), the exploitation and vulnerability by criminals who they might be drawn in by. The school fines for refusal. And if you don't have anything that says hang on a minute this person is actual ND and disabled then many people are in for alot of trouble. It won't solve everything but it has been my tool to pushback on so much. It's also the access to medication like ADHD meds which are not easy to access at all.

The list is endless and I saw all the above coming down the pipeline after reading I would say hundreds of stories just like this on ASD/ADHD support groups.

Some form of assessment that considers all possibilities including ASD/ADHD and anything outside of Autism/ADHD are the most sensible thing anyone in this situation could do.

Agree with all you are saying. That said we were lucky and eventually got assessment through NHS- that said was also firstly diagnosed with BPD before ADHD. I do think when children are high functioning and behaving differently in different settings it is extremely difficult for professionals to see. We were first told it was behavioural by CAMHS but behaviours became so unmanageable and dangerous we were seen more regularly and a different diagnosis was given. I do understand why people on this thread are saying it’s just manipulative behaviour and I would have said the same before this happened to our ‘normal’ family. But behaviour even when appalling is attempting to communicate something and it is very often a child in total despair without the skills to communicate in a better acceptable manner. Feel for you op and anyone else going through it. I came down on the behaviour initially like a ton of bricks and it made everything way worse

Or maybe he’s just a teen who acts out with his parent because parents are like a safety net and always love you? It’s totally normal to act the worst to those who love you most because it’s much safer. Diagnosis has its role but it doesn’t solve problems. Maybe makes the parents feel better.

@CashewGal yes absolutely, the first 4 lines of your post I could agree with entirely. It very much could be. No harm covering all bases though really.

Apologies if you work for the named services and your feelings are hurt. I accept it's a tough job out there.

Diagnosis and knowledge really does change a great deal. Of course those in the know, well, with respect, we know.

@Tittat50 Ok sorry I’m not in the service but a close friend is and they are overwhelmed. I apologise for sounding dismissive or insulting here.

So I had a chat to him this afternoon and he said he is just angry like his Dad. I told him that the anger is unacceptable from either of them and that I will be chatting to him properly about my expectations of him at the weekend.

I really must adapt my language because I understand it isn't fair on all those people who are trying so hard in these organisations. Being stretched to capacity in a system where they haven't any resources. That is not their fault really.

I would echo this
Most DC who self harm and very secretive about it. He threatens it because he knows it works.
I appreciate its very hard to deal with and as a parent its terrifying but if you feel its safe to ignore the threats then do so OR if you think he is a danger to himslef call The Police

Agree with this. You can't take such a horrific risk with this child's life. How would you cope if he hurt her, physically, because she didn't toe the line he sets? If you do nothing else, you must speak to her parents.

I totally agree with this and did similar with my DC and it really did work. Staying calm and not going head to head is so important with a teenager at this age.
Discussing when things have calmed down and explaining why those rules exist is also good as they get older.
And also building bonds in a more teenage way rather than kids way - finding things that are fun to do together even if just an hour a week watching a show or football or playing a game of cards - just keeping the fun there too.

I'm not sure if there would be any other way to access an NVR course. Worth looking into on your area.
Have a read up on it, its really effective from my experience

Have you checked out PDA (pathological demand avoidance) if he’s been this way since he was tiny, the controlling behaviour/outbursts/aggression are a (bad) way of dealing with a nervous system that is very easily triggered into a fight/flight response. My teen is a PDAer, and a lot of what you describe sounds similar to her before she/we learned how to deal with it. It’s not well understood, GPs & CAMHS know very little about it but there is a PDA society who give good advice on their website as well as a woman on instagram in the states called at peace parenting. If your daughter and husband are autistic there’s a strong likelihood he may be, but with a very different presentation which is often really sociable, with high masking, but frequently overwhelmed with violent outbursts.

@mumsthewurd yes totally agree. PDA is my own AuDHD son also. It doesn't show up like other types of ND and the masking and sociable traits make people think it's just a horrible defiant brat. Not well understood.

IME Diagnosis does help 100% if it helps you (& them) to understand the root cause of their behaviour. If it’s neurodivergence a very different approach is required because - to paraphrase a previous poster - getting stricter is like throwing petrol on a chip fire when what you actually need is a damp tea towel.

Also neurodivergent kids are often way more intellectually clever than their emotional maturity/behaviour can handle. It can be torture for them. Especially when puberty kicks in.

And OP I know he currently behaves like a lamb with his girlfriend but if something she does triggers him he may lash out - either at her or himself. Learning to understand his feelings and triggers is vital if he’s going to learn to successfully negotiate adolescent/adult life and relationships.

I would reconsider ND. I would also set up private counselling if CAMHs won't work with him. I do think you should tell his girlfriends parents. You don't know what he says to her when you aren't around to hear it. Or He might begin to treat her as he does you in the future. On the other hand he may be completely lovely with her all the time forever, but you can't be certain. Is it worth the risk?

Sorry to be going on BUT it’s not the anger that’s unacceptable - being angry is totally natural and an important way of protecting ourselves - it’s the way he deals with and expresses the anger. And probably the anger is just a cover for the sky high anxiety because it’s much easier for boys to be angry than admit vulnerability (to themselves as well as anyone else). So hard for you (& him) OP. x