Had it to here with 15 yr old

[BrokenByTeens]

I divorced verbally abusive XH just over two years ago. In many ways one of my daughters has seen a vacancy and stepped into that role.

She has so many good qualities but is deeply angry and controlling, and will do whatever is necessary to start a row so that she can be the victim. All learned from Dad. Obviously she refuses to engage in any therapy.

We are due to drive to skiing for the rest of the holidays. I spent yesterday buying socks/thermals etc, and new ski gear for her which was required.
When I got home two things happened- she heard me on the phone to my BF (kids know he exists but haven’t met him, she tells me I’m a whore for dating), and then oldest came home and 15 year old really started goading about how she got everything and they didn’t. Then we should all look at her…because . Even by her standards the level of obnoxiousness was off the charts. I lost my temper.

I really don’t want her on holiday. She will ruin the 4 hour drive there and back, will comment the whole time that she is the best skier, we’re all an embarrassment and so on. Frankly, I want to punish her in a way that will set a new tone of asymmetric escalation on her behaviour. Every accommodation of her has only made her worse.
The 18 year old is studying child psychology, so I get a running commentary about what a shit parent I am from her just to really stoke it up.

I have only 2 possible thoughts.
(a) Make her travel by public transport
(b) Tell XH he needs to do some parenting for a change (usually he can do a 2-3 hour stint max. He does fuck all, but lives within walking distance) and that her holiday is cancelled, along with her phone.

In terms of other stuff, she is quite immature for 15, is doing well at schools and sports, so on the outside is doing well.

Any suggestions?

Well what do you do when she calls you a whore?

I am not one for shouting generally, ever in fact. But sometimes they need a bloody good rollicking to shock them and to teach them they've crossed the line. You need to assert yourself in your household as the adult. However to do this you need to be explosive and impactful without escalating to anger or tit for tat. You need to make sure your body language is strong, dip your chin a little so your voice is lower and doesn't go shrill and speak slow and steady not high pitched like you are losing it.

Until you've asserted yourself and taken the lead, and maintain strong hard, consistent boundaries she isnt going to feel safe and secure at home. Her behaviour is showing her insecurities not a healthy sense of self esteem.

The 18 year old is studying child psychology, so I get a running commentary about what a shit parent I am from her just to really stoke it up

Why is all the focus on the 15 year old yet this is being ignored?

This is not ignored. This happens once the 15 year old starts on, because she will also have been goaded.

Afterwards she will apologize (the 15 year old too) and knows it inflames the situation, but sometimes in the heat of the moment, people over react.

When she calls me a whore, I tell her she is being ridiculous, to get back in her lane.
The way she says it is ridiculous.

This makes no sense to me.

So your 15 year old is not only 100% responsible for her own behaviour but also for the 18 year olds behaviour - because the 15 year old 'goads her' into being verbally abusive towards you?

Scapegoat springs to mind, which may explain some of the 15 year olds appalling behaviour if she picks up on this tendency too.

And punishment?

Christ, if one of my kids called me a whore they wouldn't see the light of day except for school for a month.

Tell her (due to poor behaviour) you are weighing up whether to take her or not and if she does go, whether she should take public transport. Get her to agree to therapy and good travel behaviour in exchange for the holiday.

How is her self confidence OP? Bigging herself up and putting you down makes her sound quite low in confidence. Do you do any regular bonding activities in which you just have fun? Is the 18 year old the golden child and the 15 year old cast as the black sheep and therefore reacting? Do regularly show appreciation to your youngest when she does something right or considerate, however small it is?

shes clearly unhappy in an aspect of her life to behave so badly. Try to workout what the root cause is.

Why on earth is any of them going on holidays?

Whose idea was this holiday?

If I’d have called my mum whore, I’d have had my privileges removed for at least a month and I’d have been grounded for a serious length of time.
A 15 year old talking to you like this has had zero consequences to her behaviour. It wouldn’t have entered my head to ever speak to my mum like that or my life would have been made a misery, and rightly so.

And the holiday needs to be cancelled.

No, the 15 year old is responsible for her behaviour (only)

and the 18 year old is responsible for her behaviour. 18 year old understands how unhelpful it is, and has said she’ll stop. We’ve spoken about it this morning.(not for the first time, but going in the right direction)

There aren’t any scapegoats.

I’m sorry my answers are so bitty. I am out shopping and grabbing a few seconds here and there.
i will answer everyone fully later.

What sort of messages is she getting from her Dad? How much did she see and hear while you were together, is this just how she's learned people speak to you?
I'm quite a laid back parent but if my 15yo called me a whore she would be so grounded, no phone, nothing fun, for at least a few weeks. Getting told to stay in her lane really doesn't cut it.

Yeah I wouldn't be buying her new gear and taking her on an expensive holiday at the moment. Send her to her dad for the week.

Doesn't sound like there are any boundaries or consequences for her behavior. It is never ok to call anyone a whore - let alone your mother. By not enforcing consequences you are correcting her behavior in any way I am afraid.

I had this and after a few years just walked away. No contact now just peace. I will see her in heaven and not before

This is really bad. From both ds's aged 15 and 18. If it's happening regularly it shows a nasty side to their personality. They are both abusive, like their dad. When you realise that, this will hurt you deep inside more than anything. The fact that deep inside their actual personalities are not nice. You will have to address this. Long term.

In the short term I suggest you do go, tell both before you even go that you refuse or let them ruin it, but if they do, there won't be another time, and that your'll put in place things when you get home to stop such behaviour, or to not let it hurt you so much.

If i called my mum a whore i would still have a dent in the back of my head.

She heard a lot, but that is not a word he used. His behaviour was worse in front of the kids, also likes to escalate everything whilst giving the running commentary on why any non-compliance is because I am so crap as a parent.
She has previously been grounded, lifts withdrawn, no phone. It all works for a while, but there are setbacks, particularly as she will shout/slam doors. The most effective de-escalation tactic is to walk away/refuse to engage until she has calmed down.

Well, I’m not going to be punching her.

She will always have to live with the fact this is how she has treated me. It can’t be nice as an adult, to have to avoid ever thinking about it,

You have a 15 year old calling you a whore and you’re away buying her new things for a (no doubt expensive) skiing trip? That’s ludicrous.

Have you lost your mind? No wonder she behaves like she does - she’s getting away with murder and being rewarded for it.

Your current strategy of telling her to get in her lane isn’t parenting. Is she using a phone you pay for? Internet you provide? Getting lifts anywhere from you? Pocket money? Be a parent and stop all this til she learns to show you an ounce of respect.

Stop her coming on the holiday and tell her exactly why you’re doing it. A week at her Dad’s with no privileges (and hearing afterwards from her siblings how much fun they’re having) might make her rethink who she’s talking to.

Your older one…I’d be telling them that if you’re so bad, to consider moving out and finding their own way in the world.

OP you need to get angry with the pair of them, really angry.
Never mind a discussion about unaceptable behaviour etc etc , the time for that is past and now you need to give BOTH of them a real bollocking.
Give them 1 chance to behave and apologise or the holiday (and everything else) is off.
I appreciate that they might have had a tough time growing up watching your ex abuse you (and possibly them) but this needs to stop now and it sounds like you have tried the softly softly approach and now you need to get tough

You seem to be focusing on punishment a lot. Have you tried developing some communication skills?
For example, ask her why she thinks you're a whore. Is it because she thinks you're being disloyal to her father (regardless of the divorce)?
Both of your daughters witnessed (and possibly also suffered) the abuse from your ex. They are likely upset from that still. Maybe they're afraid your new fella will turn out like their dad.
I'm not suggesting you condone her behaviour at all but she may be trying to ask you for help with her feelings, and not have the ability to put it into more acceptable language.

The fact that you think her having to live with calling you a whore is punishment enough suggests what the problem might actually be