Had it to here with 15 yr old

[BrokenByTeens]

I divorced verbally abusive XH just over two years ago. In many ways one of my daughters has seen a vacancy and stepped into that role.

She has so many good qualities but is deeply angry and controlling, and will do whatever is necessary to start a row so that she can be the victim. All learned from Dad. Obviously she refuses to engage in any therapy.

We are due to drive to skiing for the rest of the holidays. I spent yesterday buying socks/thermals etc, and new ski gear for her which was required.
When I got home two things happened- she heard me on the phone to my BF (kids know he exists but haven’t met him, she tells me I’m a whore for dating), and then oldest came home and 15 year old really started goading about how she got everything and they didn’t. Then we should all look at her…because . Even by her standards the level of obnoxiousness was off the charts. I lost my temper.

I really don’t want her on holiday. She will ruin the 4 hour drive there and back, will comment the whole time that she is the best skier, we’re all an embarrassment and so on. Frankly, I want to punish her in a way that will set a new tone of asymmetric escalation on her behaviour. Every accommodation of her has only made her worse.
The 18 year old is studying child psychology, so I get a running commentary about what a shit parent I am from her just to really stoke it up.

I have only 2 possible thoughts.
(a) Make her travel by public transport
(b) Tell XH he needs to do some parenting for a change (usually he can do a 2-3 hour stint max. He does fuck all, but lives within walking distance) and that her holiday is cancelled, along with her phone.

In terms of other stuff, she is quite immature for 15, is doing well at schools and sports, so on the outside is doing well.

Any suggestions?

I know you say she won't engage with therapy - have you ever managed to sit down with her at a time when emotions aren't heightened and talk this stuff through? And really going through the basics - it's not okay to call anyone names, it's upsetting to people, why do you think you do this when you are upset, etc. I know that's difficult when it's such a high conflict environment.

Sounds like you under react. Calling your mum a whole is unacceptable in anyone's book. I would be refusing to provide skiing and other nice things if I was treated lkre that

Yes, we can, and do.
She does know, of course she does. She would be devastated if for example her GP knew she treats me in this way.

In terms of ‘whore’, she is (currently) of the view that me having sex is disgusting, and that I am too old to date at all. My interpretation is that this is an expression of her anger that I am prepared to date, regardless of her feelings. And to have a life outside of her and her siblings, that she has no part of. Dad has introduced multiple GF’s since the split, all of them seem to have worked out what he is like quicker than me.

There are times she is moving towards being civil about him, but it is slow progress.

Which is fine, the difficulty is that is sooo easy to say, but there are others involved too who don’t deserve to have their holiday cancelled- including me.

She does know, of course she does. She would be devastated if for example her GP knew she treats me in this way.

tell them

i would be cancelling the holiday, despite losing money on it.
The 18 year old would be told to button it - when she has raised teenagers she can join the conversation.

15 year old would be grounded, but there would also be individual therapy for her asap.

100% this.

Your kids have grown up in a toxic environment so unfortunately they have learned behaviour from that toxic environment.

An 18 year old studying psychology thinks they can offer psychological advise? What a load of rubbish. A little knowledge can be dangerous. Tell them to stay in their lane and you don’t need fag packet psycho babble.

Firm boundaries and consequences are needed. The next time she says that you tell her if she does it again then she loses her phone for a day (or whatever consequence works for you).

They saw their dad treating you like this and it took you years to leave (no judgement but this is the fact) so they have learned this behaviour to you is acceptable.

What I don’t think you can do is overreact with a big punishment now when consequences haven’t been clear or in place.

Seems a bit late to cancel the holiday now. But I would have serious talk and plans for boundaries and when u get back keep those boundaries.

Who is going on holiday ?
Just the three of you ?
I'd try to leave the 15 yr old with dad in the first instance but if that isn't feasible I'd just cancel the whole thing.

Bloody hell. If I had ever called my mother that word she would have knocked me into next week and not have spoken to me for months. Your daughter sounds bloody horrible to use such a word.

I see that but I wouldn't be forgetting it when you come back. The problem is that she knows this too. She knows you will accept it so she does it.

Who even uses that word anyway. Afterwards, when calm, how did she explain her feelings? What did she say, what thoughts went through her head, to think for one nano second, not only that this was an acceptable word to call her mum, but why would it even occur to her that her mum was this word?

I'd be telling dd2 that she will be engaging in therapy. And book it.

Sit them both down. Call her abusive. She sing like the word. In the sense of, "I was abused before (ie ex-Dh), but today you've decided you are not prepared to be abused by dd1 and dd2 anymore".

Sounds like you need to think about boundaries: then sit down with them both and start afresh. If they do or don't do x y and z these will be the consequences but the key is to stick with it. Name calling will result in x, boasting will result in y.

You say it's effective until something happens, but that's because your boundaries move and she starts to realise you're not sticking to them.

Well, they sound screwed up.
My parents were a huge failure, although they never divorced and I'm still learning stuff at 46.
I'm not sure if therapy is going to work.
Sorry.

They don't deserve a holiday I'd cancel it or go on your own for space

Me too lol!!

Oh Op

there is some seriously concerning dynamics here. the fact you are comparing her to your abusive partner should be a concern - For you! You need to talk about that with a therapist.

She is a child - who grew up in an abusive home, who has seen her parents split -

She is not your ex. she is not abusive. She is behaving badly yes - but it's going to be a very dangerous path if you start to equate your feelings for her with how you felt about the ex.

You need to dig into why she is behaving like this rather than focus first on punishment.

that is NOT about 'letting her get away with it' - she shouldn't get away with any of it

but behaviour is communication.

Also - please don't listen to total strangers on the internet about how to cope with a clearly troubled teenager.

Nobody commenting on here knows anything about how your daughter grew up, what sort of things she witnessed, what her stresses are that she carries from her family background.

It's totally irresponsible for people to comment here about 'hitting the back of her head' or not seeing daylight. When the small information given includes this being a child who grew up in an unhappy and abusive home

I was a troubled teen and swore at my parents. I also was deeply unhappy and had taken on board some very fucked up internal beliefs about family life - things I am still unravelling in my 40s.

I have found the book ‘Have a new teenager by friday’ incredibly helpful (Dr K Leman)
It talks about all behaviour having a purpose, and suggestions about how to handle. There are some old fashioned moments and the odd bit about religion that is very much not my cup of tea, but generally it has been a game changer for how I handle one of my twin sons.

Except they are DDs. Interesting assumption you made.

this

Honestly adhd meds elvanse work amazing

Op while I agree with a lot of the people above, you’re only broken up two years, dating someone and comparing your daughter to your ex and saying you don’t want to be around her. Is there any chance she’s reacting to the first two points and sending the second two? Is life a non stop battle or do you have good times?

Drop her off at dads and go on holiday. I wouldn’t take my daughter if she called me names, calling you a whore is unforgivable