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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Is this normal- teen screams and won't let me talk

94 replies

Flyhigher · 14/11/2024 20:41

DD17 gets exhausted and then starts saying how exhausted she is and can't go to school tomorrow.

She has been packing in a lot

Mom Tues and wed lots of exercise

Back at 9pm each night.

I start to try and say maybe cut back a bit.

She screams. Shut up shut up.

And screams till I go quiet.

I feel so controlled by her

This is not normal is it?

Or is it?

My sister and mum do the same at times.

Is this normal? Do other teens do this?

My worst nightmare is not being allowed to talk and express myself.

Ironically she says that I don't allow her to express herself

She does all the time. She literally abuts me up with aggression.

I never do that to her.

Is this normal?

She's saying I'm autistic and dont understand emotions.

That just not even close to true.

She wants to vent. I guess I came in too quickly.

But her aggression is off the scale.

But it's the exact same thing every few months.

She never learns.
Drives me insane.

OP posts:
Skybluepinky · 18/11/2024 10:52

U r enabling the behaviour, as u r used to it from yr family.

Staywithmemyblood · 18/11/2024 11:04

Please have a look at the PDA Society website - it may resonate with you. Parenting a PDAer involves very different strategies to NT parenting. Creating a low demand environment and using collaborative approaches as opposed to authoritarian. Ross Green’s book, The Explosive Child is also very helpful. Hang in there OP

VacuumPacked · 18/11/2024 11:08

9pm x 3 evenings a week at 17, for a normally well fed teen with a comfortable bed and regular stamina should not be so onerous

VacuumPacked · 18/11/2024 11:09

OP have you considered leaving home - leave husband and daughter to their competitive shouting for the bliss of solitude.

Foxblue · 18/11/2024 11:17

People are suggesting autism and PDA which is helpful, but i would suggested that you make sure you work through the possibility that this could just be learned behaviour from your husband and wider family first, in which case it needs tackling differently!

VacuumPacked · 18/11/2024 11:24

@Staywithmemyblood and others making considered suggestions -

the daughter is not a child but a young woman - as in by now, good parenting
would/should be showing results.
Six years of insolence is long enough.
Punitive measures will not work. Nothing will work as its now too late.

I don’t believe that should soon to be 18 daughter be at University, college
or the world of work
that she would be ‘allowed’ to behave in this unnacceptable way without censor,
then be allowed (key word) to bring home her angst to dump on her mother who
ties herself to the whipping post.

The OP is weary of it all, mother, sister, husband, daughter, solution above. ^^^

Oblomov24 · 18/11/2024 11:24

@FiveLoadsFourLiftsThreeMeals is correct, if op just wants to vent, fine.

All the suggestions of pda are helpful, but Most sn parents will tell you that nearly all the hard work has to be done by you. Even if you do get a diagnosis, even if the school is supportive (with or without a diagnosis), a lot of the learning / talking / growing / retraining / adjustments / changing, all needs to be done by the parent. and that takes a lot of effort and is extremely draining long-term.

MrsTerryPratchett · 18/11/2024 14:58

Flyhigher · 18/11/2024 07:34

I am under severe stress and it's been going on for years now.
Looking for some hope and help.
Thanks for criticising my language too. Just what I needed right now. Had a teen criticising me viciously daily for 6 years now. So thanks!
Yes I'm in a difficult situation and wording it as best as I can. Maybe if you are being bullied you might do the same. Who knows.
I've been bullied for so long it's just survival.

Point is why do teens do their behaviour not why do I do short sentences.

No sorry.

Any decent child psychologist will tell you that parents initially pay them to 'fix the child'. Inevitably, what the psychologist's job ends up being is to fix the relationship. The relationship which has been created by the parent. Because the child started as a baby!

Many of those relationships will have the foundation (for the parent) of 'I do everything for them why are they so...[insert behaviour]'. It's a tale as old as time.

What you're doing now isn't working. You need to change what you are doing, not change your child. And how you communicate is the basis for all of that. I'd suggest a couple of books. Find local parenting classes, especially those targeted at parents of teens. Family therapy if you can afford it.

Flyhigher · 18/11/2024 18:35

Yes good behaviour needs to be modelled and I have done my best.
Thank you for all the comments.
Teens can be hurtful. My dad died this year which has made me a bit more emotional.

I think at times some people when tired react aggressively.

The book that was suggested, Mum what is wrong with you was very apt. It's word for word what she says. That helps a bit. Thanks.
I did want to just reach out and vent. It was painful.
Don't have anyone I can vent to.

Tbf the talking back from teen has gone up and down. Now it's kind of lessening in terms of volume of stuff. But is more intense. When it happens.

OP posts:
Flyhigher · 18/11/2024 19:17

Yes. It is a tale as old as time.
And I've fallen into it. And maybe it is all too late.

I have really tried to model better behaviour.
But unless everyone is perfect does it then it's hard.

And if your peers at school are all arsey and rebellious it's hard for one person to override all that.

OP posts:
Flyhigher · 18/11/2024 20:11

VacuumPacked · 18/11/2024 11:24

@Staywithmemyblood and others making considered suggestions -

the daughter is not a child but a young woman - as in by now, good parenting
would/should be showing results.
Six years of insolence is long enough.
Punitive measures will not work. Nothing will work as its now too late.

I don’t believe that should soon to be 18 daughter be at University, college
or the world of work
that she would be ‘allowed’ to behave in this unnacceptable way without censor,
then be allowed (key word) to bring home her angst to dump on her mother who
ties herself to the whipping post.

The OP is weary of it all, mother, sister, husband, daughter, solution above. ^^^

She does have some censors. Ie Me.
And husband at times does it too.
She's not being insolent all day every day.

But she is a little bit rude every day.
Sometimes it's excessive.
It's a lot of micro aggressions. Wears me down.

OP posts:
Meowingtwice · 18/11/2024 20:16

I'd talk to her when she's calmer and say something kind and empathetic and then say, when you scream at me you cause me a lot of stress. If you're unhappy with what I'm saying take a few mins out. You scream at me x privilege will stop. I love you and we can find a better way.

But I don't know if she'll just scream at you. If you think she will then text her.

Flyhigher · 18/11/2024 20:23

Meowingtwice · 18/11/2024 20:16

I'd talk to her when she's calmer and say something kind and empathetic and then say, when you scream at me you cause me a lot of stress. If you're unhappy with what I'm saying take a few mins out. You scream at me x privilege will stop. I love you and we can find a better way.

But I don't know if she'll just scream at you. If you think she will then text her.

Texting can work at times.
It has in the past.
I'm so emotionally wiped out by the screaming that it destabilises me for quite a while takes a while for me to be calm enough to go back and be reasonable.

It's maybe every month. PMT I know. But still it's very very draining.

OP posts:
Flyhigher · 18/11/2024 20:33

Meowingtwice · 18/11/2024 20:16

I'd talk to her when she's calmer and say something kind and empathetic and then say, when you scream at me you cause me a lot of stress. If you're unhappy with what I'm saying take a few mins out. You scream at me x privilege will stop. I love you and we can find a better way.

But I don't know if she'll just scream at you. If you think she will then text her.

I have used some of that language very gently and it has worked after. Sometimes.
Not at the time. And I find it very hard to wait until I can say it to her. Or text. Every hour I wait feels stressful. Very tense. I can't relax till I can have my say. I feel like I did with my mum as a child when I could never have my say.

Still can't now. And my mum shouts a lot to get her way.

OP posts:
DirtyDuchess · 18/11/2024 20:41

Frankly op, if my 17 year old was screaming at me in my car, I would pull over and tell her to get out and drive off.

Too much gentle parenting is not good for them, they need tough boundaries and to be told NO. You are a human being and do not deserve to be attacked.

Flyhigher · 18/11/2024 20:54

AmazingBouncingFerret · 15/11/2024 06:57

You say you’ve apologised, you’ve tried to understand her, you’ve tried to placate her, to calm her, to reassure her.

Have you tried telling her to shut the fuck up herself and that you’re not sorry and she is hurting you?

A couple of times I have told her something to that effect.
Not exactly I'm not sorry. But similar

OP posts:
Meowingtwice · 18/11/2024 21:08

Flyhigher · 18/11/2024 20:33

I have used some of that language very gently and it has worked after. Sometimes.
Not at the time. And I find it very hard to wait until I can say it to her. Or text. Every hour I wait feels stressful. Very tense. I can't relax till I can have my say. I feel like I did with my mum as a child when I could never have my say.

Still can't now. And my mum shouts a lot to get her way.

I see. Do you have boundaries like I will not be screamed at. And leave the room and have your say another time. Though she's wrong to scream there's nothing worse then you're angry than someone who wont stop making their point and won't give you space to calm down.

Though maybe you also need to manage your own emotions to wait. I'm not saying it's easy but if something is important it will be better received when she's calm.

I also struggle with waiting. What you can do is instead email yourself as though you're emailing her.

MrsTerryPratchett · 18/11/2024 21:14

I can't relax till I can have my say. I feel like I did with my mum as a child when I could never have my say.

I'm telling you, family therapy. Start with you. Because you are filtering her behaviour through decades of trauma. It's not her fault your mum was abusive.

I wonder if your compulsion to be heard creates a demand for her that she is trying to avoid at all costs. Screaming does seem to suggest that. If you can't relax until you've had your day, can you see how that would affect a child? Particularly a teenager.

Kids with ADHD hear 10s of thousands of additional negative things about themselves. Screaming is a valid response to that. Have a think about whether your compulsion to speak extends to her attributes, talents and skills. Or is it reserved for your wants from her? Criticisms of her?

I don't honestly think you can hear this. But a counsellor might be able to help you.

Flyhigher · 18/11/2024 22:03

It's hard. I feel like I'm being attacked unfairly over nothing.
And I have to wait hours until I can then say anything.
It feels very very hard. Like a prison.
It feels abusive. And it happens again and again.
The more I wait the more it's ok to shout. And make me wait again.

But commenting at the time doesn't work either.
That just ratchets up.

The only way would be to prevent upsetting her.
But then that's hard. As she will get angry if I say I you don't look awful for example. When she thinks she does. It really is a rock and a hard place.

Therapist will say you have to be patient.

I do sometimes compose texts to her take ages rewriting them. But that's just as draining.

If this was a husband or a boyfriend the advice would be to leave. With a child it's you have to put up with it. Learn to put up with it.

It's gone on for years. We have dealt with drink weed and sex. Out the other side of that.

But you just get new things to navigate.

These arguments were about her complaining she was exhausted and me suggesting she thinks about doing a little less on a Monday.

I guess I jumped in too soon.
But honestly it's so hard to be talking to people who fly off the handle nearly all the time. Over nothing.

I keep thinking at 17 she will calm down a bit.

She wants to vent very angrily and have me listen with no solution. Till she's ready.

It's very very hard. If you have any view or opinion at all that isn't hers in that moment of angry venting you get both barrels.

She's so angry that it seems compelling to offer the common sense moderate solution.

If I do. She explodes.
I keep getting sucked in.

Some things she wants solved instantly or anger.
Like my spots, my hair, see this top.

Others it's venting. And you get the hairdryer treatment. And then you have 30 secs to give an appropriate response.

OP posts:
Flyhigher · 18/11/2024 22:07

MrsTerryPratchett · 18/11/2024 21:14

I can't relax till I can have my say. I feel like I did with my mum as a child when I could never have my say.

I'm telling you, family therapy. Start with you. Because you are filtering her behaviour through decades of trauma. It's not her fault your mum was abusive.

I wonder if your compulsion to be heard creates a demand for her that she is trying to avoid at all costs. Screaming does seem to suggest that. If you can't relax until you've had your day, can you see how that would affect a child? Particularly a teenager.

Kids with ADHD hear 10s of thousands of additional negative things about themselves. Screaming is a valid response to that. Have a think about whether your compulsion to speak extends to her attributes, talents and skills. Or is it reserved for your wants from her? Criticisms of her?

I don't honestly think you can hear this. But a counsellor might be able to help you.

If I'm criticised and not allowed to respond. It feels abusive. Don't think that's a compulsion to respond. That's just fairness in communication.
If you criticise me then I can respond.

I guess she hears suggestions of doing a bit less as a criticism.

She has complete freedom in my eyes.
And doesn't even allow me to talk at times.

This is not reasonable.

OP posts:
Flyhigher · 18/11/2024 22:14

@Meowingtwice
She does say that she wants time to vent and not be interrupted.
She has to get out her feelings.

Maybe I see it as defending myself from an attack and she wants to vent and express herself.

This is so psychologically hard.

I don't think her friend choices are that helpful.
Her friend is nice but as stubborn as she is.
They banter a lot. My DD does this a lot with people. She needs a listener friend. Who is calm.

When she is under a lot of pressure, she listens more. I can help her then. But she is down and upset and I can help her see the positive and a solution

When she's angry and just venting for silly things. I find it really hard.

OP posts:
Aria999 · 18/11/2024 22:21

If this was me, when she screamed at me I would just leave the room.

If she approached me later or wanted anything I would say something like 'I will be happy to talk to you when you can be calm and respectful. Are you there yet or do you need some more time?'

(I have a possibly ND 9 year old boy so I do get screamed at sometimes, the above approach normally gets me an apology and a sensible conversation after he has calmed down. But he isn't a teenager though I often feel he might as well be!)

Flyhigher · 18/11/2024 22:50

weather, lost homework, late-running buses, pens with no ink in them, broken pencil sharpeners, unacceptable exam results, Pritt Sticks with no lids, nail varnish that has dried up, past-its-sell-by-date sliced bread, toast that is toasted too much, missing Twix, teabags that burst in cups, oversubscribed festivals, mysterious stains on new duvets, the cold weather, Wetherspoon’s questioning fake ID, the traffic jams … it’s all your fault. Everything. Is. Your. Fault. For this moment you become the most unpopular girl in class in your own home, courtesy of your own offspring. Your teenager begins to view you as the biggest nitwit anyone could ever meet. This is not her rejecting you forever, it’s her separating herself from you. The little girl who once worshipped you to the moon and back now has to untether herself from you, and it seems to me that she sometimes uses a surprisingly mean, self-righteous moral superiority to do that. It’s her adolescent weapon of choice. She begins to talk to you in the patronising voice reserved for admonishing toddlers who are wearing their clothes upside down and eating jelly with a fork. Or very deaf elderly people. I was once so viciously reprimanded in the street on a cycle trip with my sixteen-year-old because I took a left instead of a right turn that a passer-by stopped to commiserate with me as my teen sped off up a hill shouting, ‘Get a move on.’ The wonderful mature lady walking along the path said, ‘I feel your pain, I’ve been there,’ and she blew a raspberry at my daughter on my behalf (because I was too scared to). It’s like being a freemason: only those in the know, know. That’s all mothers of girls. You may unwittingly become a new superhero – Moron Mum. I didn’t see this attitude coming, but I’m giving you advance warning, so suit up like a medieval knight, flip the faceguard down and allow the illogical insults to your intelligence to bounce off you in a cartoon fashion. (Of course, I am generalising here, they aren’t like this all the time and indeed some teenage girls may never be like this. Lucky you, if that is the case …) The jibes aren’t meant in a malicious way; it’s just that mums are often seen as rubbish at this stage of the parenting journey, otherwise it doesn’t make sense to separate from us. And when you recall some of this cruel behaviour with humour, they will look at you blankly and say, ‘Well, that never happened.’ Their brains have allegedly erased most of it, even though later on, in their twenties, they will feel guilty. I have worked with a lot of young women and they all tell me they feel guilty about being mean to their mums as teenagers. At this point in parenting they need to believe that you just aren’t important enough to them to remember specifics about you, though they can remember what everyone in the TikTok Hype House had for breakfast three days ago. I can only describe it this way: imagine your teenage daughter had to write a 2,000-word essay on any subject. She may not be able to manage it on something she is actually studying at school, but she could easily pen one entitled ‘An idiot’s guide to Mum, the idiot that lives with me’. There would be an epilogue and a prologue too, because you are such a dimwitted fool who has achieved nothing in life that your crimes are endless. She can only write this of course because she has been closely monitoring your every move since the day she was born. She is inextricably tied to you (with love, for that is what you must remember in these testing times, love is the bond). My eldest once said to me when she was fourteen and I was demanding some minor details of her next escapade, ‘Oh my god, Mum, what is the point of you?’ It was a blow to my self-esteem because I often find myself sitting quietly on the bottom of our stairs on my way up with the clean washing, questioning the point of me anyway – midlife will do that to you. The decline in oestrogen and testosterone whips away some of your memory and offers you brain fog and little dollops of despair instead. So much questioning is going on that it’s doubly hard to deal with a bright young thing dismissing your life away as she swishes out of the room. All ponytail and hi-top trainers. But deal with it you must. And you can at least love her new-found assertive confidence to say what she means, if you are looking for positives and let’s face it, we’re always looking for them in the teenage years. If you are the mum of a pre-teen right now you may not believe this will happen to you but it will. I was once asked to come and give a talk at my daughter’s school about fashion, having worked in the magazine industry for thirty years. I have won awards for the glossy publications I have edited. I’ve been on lists entitled ‘Fashion’s 100 Most Powerful’. I have given speeches in front of fashion’s most iconic names. Goddammit, I once had lunch with Donatella Versace and Vivienne Westwood at the same time. Yet the eldest looked at me with a genuinely perplexed expression on hearing of my school-assembly debut and said: ‘But what would you know about fashion?’ She dismissed a whole career in one sentence. When we were both interviewed by broadcaster Anne Robinson for a BBC show about parenting my daughter, then thirteen, made the same remark again for the benefit of thousands of viewers concluding, ‘Well, she doesn’t actually do fashion.’ Those ‘bring your kids to work’ days were wasted on her, clearly, though of course other people’s mums do exist outside of the bubble of dismissal, I find. Issey’s mum, for example, is ‘an artist’, my daughter tells me with pride, and Siobhan’s mum, don’t you know, is ‘a beauty entrepreneur’. When I lightly questioned the meaning of this job title (again, as someone who has worked in the beauty industry for decades myself, on magazines) both the teens looked at me with savage fury. ‘Why do you always criticise people for being good at things you know nothing about?’ they said, with no irony. For mums of daughters, parenting is not a popularity contest. You are not their best friend: please don’t try and be one, because they benefit from boundaries. A teen without proper boundaries is a scared young woman, in my opinion. At this age they often seem to go right off you – as they are separating from you – while still recognising the balance of power is in their favour because they know you love them so much you’ll do anything for them. I watch mine come into the kitchen some days and the pain of not being able to hold them close like I did when they were little is unbearable. No gently putting their hair behind their ears for them any more or smoothing Gracie’s little fringe down. The absolute proof they are going to leave me is inevitable as I observe them in these moments. Imagine a romantic affair where you are desperately and deliriously in love beyond your wildest dreams but you know with absolute certainty that the object of your affections will one day leave you, that really, every minute is a step towards that parting. You don’t see this when they are little, it feels as though childhood will go on forever, but it comes into focus as they hit adolescence. Yet it is all normal adolescent development, a stage they will pass through and out the other side. This teenage untethering alongside your midlife unravelling touches every part of your soul, because at times it can feel brutally personal. We don’t often talk about this, do we, as women? We just get on with life, taking each day as it comes, but the effect of this uncoupling must surely shake us; it is a subtle form of grief and it troubled me greatly at a time of life when I was questioning the point of everything anyway. Doing the ‘death maths’ on the years left and what could be achieved during them. We must talk about it, because if you know it is coming, the path to parting and eventually

This book what's the point of you mum. Is very helpful.

OP posts:
Flyhigher · 18/11/2024 22:50

Thank you to the poster that suggested it xx

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 19/11/2024 01:19

But then that's hard. As she will get angry if I say I you don't look awful for example. When she thinks she does. It really is a rock and a hard place.

This is a perfect example. She's telling you something and you are disagreeing. She FEELS that she looks awful. It's the feeling you need to engage with. Not the reality of it. Phrases that are helpful (put into words that sound more you and less SW):

Sorry; it's hard to feel like that
OK you think you look awful, what's going on for you about that?
How long have you felt like this?
Do you feel like a hug?
When DD says something about her looks I pick a random thing to make her laugh, "you have the world's best eyebrows, literally the best". She laughs, feels better.

Therapist will say you have to be patient.

They won't. They should look at your trauma, motivations and actions. And it will be therapy for you and your responses, not how to address your DD's.