Not having a smartphone

[aNameyName]

Thinking ahead a year or two to having a teenager: My child is already in a small minority in not yet having their own smartphone, and since reading 'The Anxious Generation' by Jonathan Haidt, I'm minded to hold out against giving my child a smartphone until they can get one themselves, if they want to because the massive developmental opportunity costs were shocking when laid out so plainly.

If you have teenage children with a dumb phone or no personal phone at all, what are the worst negative impacts for your teen of not having a smartphone? Has your position on smartphones affected your relationship with your child? At what age / event do you intend to give your child a smartphone, if at all? What other factors should I consider in weighing up if / when to give them a smartphone?

Yes, and I know lots of schools provide access to IT after the school day finishes for those without it at home to use. It's probably at risk of discriminatory practices otherwise.

That's not much use in the middle of the school day!

I have just asked my teens, both of whom have left secondary now, how important a phone was in school and what they used it for.

• taking photos of info on the smart board when the teacher told them to do they had a record
• looking things up in class when the teacher told them to
• checking time tables, room numbers
• reading teams messages from teachers, sometimes asking them to go and see them at break
• notification of detention 🤔
• bus pass
• watching sways from head of year in tutor

@taylorswift1989 At the moment, holding out is relatively easy - my child isn't wanting a smartphone, and luckily their school will operate a 'no phone access during the school day' policy from next year. They have a dumb phone at the moment, they like the fact they can call if they need to discuss something when they're out and about, they've used it a handful of times to make calls in a couple of years. They recognise that they do a lot of fun things that friends who are heavy device users don't do and that using devices more heavily would mean less time spent doing the things they currently enjoy. They're an avid reader, too, which is also helpful. At the moment, they don't envisage wanting to swap time reading books or doing hobbies for time on a phone. I know that might change. I do think though there are signs that social attitudes may change quite quickly in relation to what's considered reasonable for children and teens' device use, including smartphone use. Interesting times ahead (aren't there always?).

As an aside, have you read Jonathan Haidt's book / other similar things? Do you have any recommendations for further reading?

Hi @aNameyName I haven't read the latest book but I've heard him talk about it on podcasts. I've read other books of his I liked a lot. I think Abigail Shrier's books are well worth reading - her latest is about teen mental health and how we are raising kids to be more anxious by getting them to constantly focus on their feelings. Obviously that's a very superficial summary!

I don't know of anyone who is focusing on the UK specifically, although I think with regards to many issues, we are following America's lead. The only person I can think of who is pushing these types of conversations here is Katherine Birbalsingh, who is head of the Michaela school (definitely a no phones school!) But I think it is going to start hitting the mainstream as an issue soon. We are seeing how badly children are suffering in terms of their development and mental health, and I think even phone-addicted parents are starting to understand what a serious problem it is.

This is the Michaela school too -

I'm all for limiting and controlling the use of devices but @aNameyName won't you mind if your dc's friends all do use phones to arrange when and when to meet, or share last minute updates and changing plans on the fly and your dc is left out of these arrangements and updates. Secondary school parents don't get involved in planning these things. I can only imagine the faces of my dc's friends' parents if I tried to arrange a meet up for our 12and 13 year old dc with their parents. You make your choices but other families are entitled to make their own choices about smart phones and may chose a more balanced approach.

Our Y8 would really struggle without one. He uses it homework apps, listening to music, Apple Pay (and Tesco Clubcard !😂), catching the bus/ train. Crucially, it is how he communicates with his friends, via WA.

He knows we can monitor his phone anytime and it remains downstairs overnight. He doesn’t have tiktok or Snapchat yet, although he is v sensible so I am not really concerned. As a family, we are all on life 360, so he can see where we are and vice versa.

@DorisAndDot I'll mind if/when my child minds. As in my first post, they are in a minority now by not having a smartphone and are currently happy with this. If they continue to do a lot of sport, their after school time will get busier with higher training volumes plus more homework. They're already often not around locally at the weekends due to competitions and that's set to continue.

Of course other families are entitled to make their own choices. Why on earth wouldn't they be? Whether those choices are seen by a majority as balanced or not depends where the Overton window is at that point in time. I sense it is shifting.

I think it's unfair, poor parenting and damaging to deny a secondary school child this basic outlet. If you want to limit it, or put in restrictions go ahead, but to deny it completely is just so wrong on so many levels.

They would be socially isolated and would hate my guts. And they would get a secret phone. Sorry that is not a nice answer but is the truth. That’s for mine though who are very sociable girls. Dd2 is on permanent face time / snap chat with her friends / voice notes etc. Always gales of laughter from her room as they chat away. Less sociable biddable teens you might get away with it.

One mum takes all the girls phones away (they are 15) when you go to her house. The girls all can’t stand her (including her own daughter) and no one will stay the night there. Their house is now a teen dead zone.

That's appalling. Schools need to stop setting homework on apps. It's really not right to expect all families to want their children to have smartphones and expect parents to be able to afford them.

How does the school accommodate families who can’t afford to provide their DC’s with a smartphone?

At DDs school, the computer rooms are open after school for homework.

Why are people bringing up cost when it's clearly not the issue for OP.

Yes, there may be a small number of children whose parents genuinely can't afford a phone but I suspect they're very, very much in the minority.

Most children will have the hand-me-down of a parent or older sibling.

My youngest teen is 16, he'll be getting a phone this summer but he's not really fussed about it.
DD was desperate to get hers as soon as her GCSEs were over as this meant they couldn't arrange stuff in school any longer.
Ds1 also got his the summer after his GCSEs.
We live very local to their schools and friends and cousins and nearly all their friends were the same, no phone until after GCSEs so there was no pressure on any of them to want a phone or feel left out.
If you do get your child a phone, set boundaries and rules beforehand and stick to them.
No phones in the bedroom, at dinner etc and all passwords to be shared with you. I think there's an app where parents can set restrictions so look into that. Speak to your child about cyber bullying and his online reputation and the potential consequences of irresponsible online behaviours.

DD pre-dates all of this. She left school 6 years ago, and while she did have a smartphone by then, phones weren't used in school, and none of the things you mention were accessible by app. Things like timetable, bus pass etc were physical hard copies. She accessed the VLE on her laptop at home.

Obviously it is cheaper for the school to use apps for things like timetables, but there must be a number of children whose parents can't afford or won't allow their 11 year olds to have a smartphone?

Who wants to be the only kid with no phone when science teaches says 'pull out your phone and film this experiment'

What kind of awful schools are everyone's kids on here going to?! Another PP mentioned teachers WhatsApping kids?! Our school, and those if everyone I know, bans phones even being turned on during the school day. On the way to/from school is one thing (bus passes etc) but teachers saying right guys, get filming... is that really what most schools are like and I'm in some kind of bubble?!

A school that prepared them for the adult world of work maybe? I use my work phone all the time for apps and different reasons. Better to learn good use of it than no use of it.

Apps is the way of the future.
If you've a secondary age child you'll know what happened in 2020 even primary schools were pushing down the road of homework on apps.
The clock ⏰️ isn't going backwards any time soon.
Google Classroom all homework in one place you can see what still needs done and what has been handed in.

Haha, that old one. Yeah smartphones are so difficult to use aren't they? Best make sure they've got years of training otherwise they'll never get the hang of it

I think I'll carry on "preparing my kids for the world of work" by letting them develop an attention span longer than about 4 seconds, it will stand them in good stead against about 95% of their peers from what I've seen.

I agree that no-one uses texts any more. I have a friend who won't have Facebook/WhatsApp, and she is the only person I know who texts. It's a bit of a palaver when arranging group stuff because I can't create a group with her in it and have to play text hockey with her and the WA group I have made with the others.

When DD started secondary school (before WA existed) she and her friends would text each other a lot.

It was different for her because we are rural and all her new friends lived in different villages with no bus route between our village and theirs. The school bus service was unreliable with late/cancelled buses that often broke down or caught fire, so having a phone (didn't need to be a smartphone) was essential.

Nowadays I expect most year 7s would be using WhatsApp to keep in touch and make arrangements.

A toddler can work out how to use a smartphone... its not something that needs lots of practice.

DDs school uses Google classroom, learning platforms for maths, French and English etc but its no phones during the school day. No filming of science experiments, no taking photos of the board.. any of that. If they need to be online for something, the teacher books devices.

6 years is a lifetime ago.
My neice a child of the blackberry era left in 2016 and has a different experience of phones in school to her younger sister who left in 2020.

2020 changed lots forced people to use technology. Just the same as working 5 days a week in an office is a thing of the past. Schools changed and they aren't going to unchange.
It might evolve but we aren't going back to chalk and slate either.

One of my kids hardly ever uses her phone. She’s in y9. Very isolated, hardly any pals sadly, poor at communicating generally. Poor awareness of current events, news, popular culture. There is no way she couldn’t have one at all though as she needs it to use the bus travel app which has her weekly eticket on it and a live tracker of local buses so she knows which bus to get to get to school on time (they are often late / delayed so there is a choice to be made most mornings).

It’s crazy not to have one imo. I mean my elderly mother has just succumbed to getting one as she was fed up of not getting Tesco / Boots Clubcard pricing. How do you buy cinema tickets when you can’t scan in on arrival ? My gym operates this way now too. Quite normal for a teenager to book a class and attend imo. Banking apps & Apple Pay is very useful too.

The problem is that children still need to communicate - to parents in an emergency or to be collected from somewhere if and when plans change, and to each other. There are no landlines or phone boxes anywhere anymore. A child will have to borrow a friends phone in these circumstances.

A lot of sports clubs use apps aswell to organise teams & matches. Yes a parents can relay the information but why not promote independence by letting children do this? I’m sure my child is more interested than me if they are picked for a match on Tuesday and what position they are playing.

Personally I’m not convinced ‘phone use’ is causing the problems teens have nowadays. I think it’s helicopter parenting and lack of life skills / independence that’s causing the problems. I mean my child has no interest whatsoever in tik tok or Snapchat or whatever but she’s still lacking in confidence & life skills compared to 20 years ago.