15yr old and choking

[Lostfraggle]

So, I just read my DD's diary (yes, I know I know) and she has written all about her first snog (with tongues!) with a boy at his house (we drove her there at the weekend because he lives in the next town). Ok, fine, she's just turned 15, snogs happen. But then talks about how he choked her and it was so good as she went dizzy and it was really hot (ie sexy), and she thought she "did ok" (with the snogging) but maybe she should be more "dom" next time. She previously mentioned talking about choking with him, which apparently "turned him on".

He was also clearly trying to woo her previously but has just ended up apparently dating one of her friends, so she's also helping him cheat.

Then they were taking about how he wants to "fuck" but she wasn't sure, maybe next time she writes.

Help - how do I handle this? Is this because of ubiquitous porn? How do I talk to her that choking (when you are only just 15!) is not safe, and tbh inappropriate when you are only just exploring sex /sexuality?! Plus she's under the age of consent (for sex anyway), plus the very poor moral judgement of cheating.

We've got the "safe search" controls on her phone, so this must be from other friends' phones or just generally taking to each other.

I don't really want her to know I've found out about this through her diary, but on the other hand there's no way I'd know about it otherwise. And she has straight out denied previously that they are dating.

She has appeared so innocent up to this point, I'm a bit out of my depth....

It sounds like you may have some form of emotional distress disorder. Your reaction isn't necessarily the norm. It doesn't take most people 35 years to just start to get over their childhood diary being read.

As you've decided to project yourself and your extreme reaction into the op's daughters shoes as opposed to acknowledging that the child is actually in a very unsafe position.

Have you considered some form of psychotherapy? 35 years is around 1/3 or perhaps 1/2 of a life depending on health.

@Chasingadvice what I’m saying is that the incident was a turning point, caused a breakdown in trust and made me wary of my dad and stepmum. The wider effects rippled out and had a long-term impact, in the sense that we haven’t been close since.

It isn’t that I’ve been constantly thinking about my diary being read throughout 35 years. It’s that this post reminded me of a significant moment.

Plenty of people have had similar experiences. Minimise all you want but I’m afraid it is not that extreme to experience long-lasting discomfort if your parents intrude on your private sexual thoughts as a teenager. It’s a tricky stage of development.

As for not acknowledging the dangers of choking (and of alienating teenagers), well, I followed up with a post touching on that. I don’t normally expect anyone to bother reading all my posts but maybe if you’re planning to single someone out for slightly sarcastic digs, it’s worth a quick check.

This.

All this Pearl clutching about reading her diary. The OP’s daughter is at risk FFS, of course she should intervene immediately.

No sarcastic digs here. I'm sorry you interpreted it as so. It does come across strange that it's taken 35 years to begin rebuilding trust after reading a childhood diary. I'm sure it was uncomfortable and embarrassing but it does seem rather extreme all this time later. Are they aware what your issue was/is with them?

It’s not extreme. Reading a private diary is lowest of the low. Terrible behaviour can’t believe people brushing it off.

It isn't extreme, but you seem quite keen to make it sound more so. (Maybe you're a diary-reader.) I think I've probably said enough about my situation, tbh.

Apologies to anyone who dislikes Reddit links but the one below has some thoughtfully worded replies amongst the froth.

AITA for Reading My Daughter's Diary? : r/AmItheAsshole (reddit.com)

"I'm an adult and my mother and I had a strained relationship for two decades because of how nosy and how much snooping she did. To this day, it's unbearable for me if someone has access to my personal things."

"My mother did the same thing to me and it created a fissure that to this day has not been bridged."

"Same. I'm 37 and tell my mother nothing. Not just because of the diary thing, but it was emblematic of the larger issue...You don't just jump to reading someone's private thoughts and betray their trust like that if you have a healthy attitude regarding boundaries and privacy."

"Even if your heart was in the right place, you make a decision here that might cause irreparable damage to your relationship with your daughter. All you’ve taught her is that she doesn’t have a single safe space to express herself—obviously not her mother, and not even her diary."

Exactly.

Absolutely agree with Mixed thoughtful post on this.

How do the people in the companies that own these porn sites feel about themselves? Presumably some of them have teenaged daughters ?

Just a point on your language "morals" "values" these belong or are set by others or society. Talk about her understanding and setting her "boundaries" - it gives more sense of her controlling the narrative.

As a teen (and an adult) I would recoil and go full pelt the opposite way if someone started putting their/society morals/values on my sex life.

Just a prospective not trying to say you are wrong but having a teen myself language can negate a positive message.

More extreme than strangling?

If your son asks you what a 69 is and you won't tell him more than that it is a sex position, then won't he google it or ask his friends instead? I think 10 is old enough to be told the specifics. You can answer that question pretty matter-of-factly and explain why people use the number to describe it. Kids that age think it's hilarious to say "69" without knowing more than it's considered a dirty word. If they understand what it actually is, they are actually less likely to think it's a funny joke, IME. I think it is much easier to have open communication with teenagers when you have always answered their questions fully and accurately when they started asking questions at a younger age. You become a safe space to answer all their questions. Plus, you save them from embarrassment when they realize they are misusing a term in front of a teacher because no one told them what it meant -- which is something I have seen.

I took the decision that he is too young to know. None of his friends know. They think it means sex. And he won't Google it as he doesn't own a phone. For that reason.

He knows he will be told when he's of a suitable age, which is not 10. There are certain things which he doesn't need to know yet. That's one of them. He's only just started learning about sex, fgs.

He knows I will answer truthfully. And I did.

He also now knows not to bandy words around without fully understanding what they mean.

Car chat moment.
“ was really worried to read in mumsnet / on the internet that sexual choking has caused xxx deaths and lots of people now think it’s normal. That really worries me ….. what do you think ?”

or even a chat about consent / safe sex as I think “ safe sex “ no includes pregnancy , STI prevention and not being strangled to death 😱

or What ever context you may have “ found out about it like it’s new to you “

I used to see a lot of things “ on that mums forum I’m on “ to discuss in the car 🤣

car chats are bril as you are respond so they can’t run away but also you aren’t face to face which makes it easier.

Reading a 15 year olds diary is not more important than keeping her safe.

Yes it's a bit shit but ignoring it and the child- yes- child becoming desensitised to this sexual treatment and possibly injured or worse is unacceptable. The priority is keeping the child safe.

It's something else to the posters wailing about privacy would be happy to know their daughters were being choked sexually and be happy to ignore it but most parents would and do want to safeguard their children. A little strange to think that privacy is more important than safety and sexual boundaries. I wonder if there are sexual issues at play for the adults there.

I think ignoring the fact that your underage child is being strangled in a sexual situation is a little more low. It seems like you had terrible issues with your parents and privacy. Would you relish the thought of your 15 year old being choked by a boy? Would you prefer that to having read her diary and being concerned? Very worrying if so.

Sounds like a controversial decision either way. Personally I wouldn’t mention reading her diary, and to stop reading it from now on too, BUT I also would find a way to address it as it doesn’t sound safe for someone so young to do or know about. Some posters have had good idea, like reading 50 shades and bringing it up that way

So what do you think is going to happen if you confront her about this? Next time she's with him she says- 'oh no, sorry, mum says I shouldn't do this?'

My mum read my diary when I was her age, and discovered something similar. She tried to stop the sexual actions and the relationship. Her trying to do this made the relationship last longer and completely turned us away from each other. I never shared anything with her since, and never will. Our relationship never recovered and never will.

In your position I'd take the absolutely ingenious found books scenario suggested above and never allow her to even slightly suspect you read her diary. Make yourself someone she can come to with problems or questions, or for advice. If your daughter is anything like me she's going to go her own sexual way whatever, you can only make sure she's informed and strong.

Oh, and I can't say this strongly enough, shame on you for reading her diary. Without even a good excuse. Utterly despicable.

Reading a 15 year olds diary is not more important than keeping her safe.

How fortunate that nobody claimed it was!

He also now knows not to bandy words around without fully understanding what they mean.

Yes, it sounds like you shut that down completely.

Well she’ll hate you and never tell you anything again - so in the long term arguably it could be more dangerous yes.

Reading a child's diary is not 'the lowest of the low' ffs. Why are we not more concerned about men/boys strangling girls & women?

@Ollifer

I know. Ffs. My mum read mine. I was a bit fucking annoyed at the time but I got over it.

I think you should talk to her about online porn in general and then cover choking as part of that.

this Sounds extreme to me, I would assume this was a test and you have entirely failed.

but also the talks you have had about sex haven’t gone far enough. Where is she going to get info if you don’t provide it?

I’d try to get talking about sex, maybe using the elaborate book plan above or just ‘omg I read a thread on Mumsnet about choking !!! That cannot be real’ etc.

Hopefully this is just a trap you can avoid but it is definitely a wake up call either way

What a ridiculous comment. She's a young child, under the age to consent to sex. As a parent we are here to advocate and protect our children 🤷🏻‍♀️