15yr old and choking

[Lostfraggle]

So, I just read my DD's diary (yes, I know I know) and she has written all about her first snog (with tongues!) with a boy at his house (we drove her there at the weekend because he lives in the next town). Ok, fine, she's just turned 15, snogs happen. But then talks about how he choked her and it was so good as she went dizzy and it was really hot (ie sexy), and she thought she "did ok" (with the snogging) but maybe she should be more "dom" next time. She previously mentioned talking about choking with him, which apparently "turned him on".

He was also clearly trying to woo her previously but has just ended up apparently dating one of her friends, so she's also helping him cheat.

Then they were taking about how he wants to "fuck" but she wasn't sure, maybe next time she writes.

Help - how do I handle this? Is this because of ubiquitous porn? How do I talk to her that choking (when you are only just 15!) is not safe, and tbh inappropriate when you are only just exploring sex /sexuality?! Plus she's under the age of consent (for sex anyway), plus the very poor moral judgement of cheating.

We've got the "safe search" controls on her phone, so this must be from other friends' phones or just generally taking to each other.

I don't really want her to know I've found out about this through her diary, but on the other hand there's no way I'd know about it otherwise. And she has straight out denied previously that they are dating.

She has appeared so innocent up to this point, I'm a bit out of my depth....

It is SO disturbing that choking is now considered a totally normal, mainstream sexual act. Even more disturbing that girls are made to feel like they have to let boys choke them.

How come it’s never the male choking the female?

I don’t know how you’re going to broach things without letting on that you’ve been snooping, but you need to find a way to have a conversation about porn normalising a whole host of dangerous, violent, life threatening acts to several generations of young people.

https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/

This could be useful ;-

https://fightthenewdrug.org/

Op, it sounds like you haven’t actually spoken about relationships with her and how sex works within those. It’s probably going to take a while for her to get comfortable talking about this with you, but yes start now. My suggestion would be to watch teen/adult films with her and discuss them. (Not ‘adult’ obv, just like ones with sex in them). In a light and nice way, not too serious etc.

Grace Millane was murdered, she didn't die during rough sex.
She was murdered by a sick cunt who had also raped other women.

I actually agree with this 💯. She should not see this boy again, and I'd also want to speak to his parents so that he stops doing it with other underage girls. Yes, it's embarrassing, but until adults start standing up to this grim behaviour, our daughters will continue to be the victims that we've been for years. She needs help.

It's not helpful for everyone slaying you for reading her diary. Imagine the worst-case scenario here - that you do nothing out of guilt, and then she gets seriously hurt or even worse.

You may need to admit to reading it but if you can find a way in to a conversation that becomes a regular one on the topic of trust, sex, men, porn etc etc then you should. Personally, I'd use the sex ed lever and ask her what they are learning about, how things have changed since we were children, and what is right or wrong. She

Skirting around the issue here - that a boy is strangling her - is not something you want to do nor allow going forward.

Thanks for that. I will have a look.

I stumbled across this thread. My daughter is now in her 30s. I read her diary at intervals during her teenage years. I never confronted her with what I read but it helped me to keep her safe.
She was none the wiser so no harm done

I did wonder if it was fantasising, or exaggerating a kiss into something much more, and she's read plenty of young adult type books which are sometimes in that confessional diary sort of style, but then I don't want to dismiss it in case it's all true.

JFC. This is terrifying. What a world our daughters are growing up in.

Re her seeing him again - she's denying that he's anything other than "just friends", not least because he is apparently dating one of her friends. Tbh I'm really disappointed that she would enable a boy to cheat too, even if they are only 15, we go on and on about values in our family (or so I thought). So I'm not sure on what grounds I could refuse her seeing him. It's tricky.

The child’s safety is far more important than ideas about violating privacy.

You were interested in choking “etc” 😮 from an even younger age??

I don’t believe you. Where did you get the idea from, that this was “a thing”?

15 yos who are talking about having sex and choking I'm their diaries ARE NOT MATURE ENOUGH TO HAVE PRIVACY.

I'd bring it up with her OP.

@MumGMT
Perhaps I wasn't clear. I agree Grace Millane was murdered, but I wasn't talking specifically about her (I just suggested her as an example). I was actually talking about any woman who died during rough sex (including the subset who are murdered). Obviously in many cases, women are murdered, but I don't know the details of every case...maybe some died accidentally. This is a practice that, in my view, has high potential for something going wrong, particularly with teens.

I'd also suggest that OP doesn't just talk about women being murdered by choking, as her DD is likely to just think, "Well, Tom isn't a murderer so I'll be fine". But if she also talks about accidental death and injury from choking...anyone can have an accident.

Re speaking to his parents - yes, that had occured to me. But I'd then have to tell them that I know because of her diary, and I don't know how they'd raise it with him without admitting that's how I know

Thank you to all the posters sharing their feelings about parents (always mothers?) reading their diaries, I do appreciate the sensitivity. I think the issue is that now I've read it I can't just pretend that I haven't, and I'd never forgive myself if something happened to her. And it's definitely a wake up call to have some much more in depth conversations about sex than I have to date.

If you tell her you read her diary you run the risk of fracturing your relationship forever (see some of the posters who experienced the same). I luckily knew my mum would have read anything private so never wrote anything down.

You need to start the conversations slowly and build her trust up to talk about what she feels comfortable with or you'll push her away and she'll do it what she wants anyway.

What do you mean: “enable a boy to cheat”?
This boy chooses to cheat.

And hollow laugh at “family values “ on a thread about a 15 year old being choked during sex. Fucksake. Don’t worry about your family values - keep your child safe.

Yes, I know he chose to kiss her, but his "girlfriend" (of the last month or so) is one of her friends - she should have turned him down even if she fancies him.

Re family values - they haven't had sex btw (if her diary is all true)...My family values ARE about keeping her safe!

Everyone should absolutely be talking about the nightmarish normalisation of choking, with their teenagers of both sexes. I'm very glad this thread is bringing the issue to more people's attention.

But the other issue is important too. Pps saying that respecting teenagers' privacy is less important than keeping them safe etc.: you're missing something essential. The two things are intertwined. Your ability to keep your teenagers somewhat safe is directly connected to them trusting you.

And a diary is not like a phone. I actually think checking phones should be much more common than it seems to be, as part of an open agreement between parent and child, because smartphones are fucking dangerous.

Diaries are not dangerous. There is no excuse for you to read them. Teenagers are people in their own right, not extensions of their mums. Their diaries are not somehow-actually-kind-of yours to read.

I would bet that most people who are happy to secretly snoop through their child's diary (which is very easy to do) are far less happy to have that tough conversation of 'yes, I expect you to let me look through your phone quite regularly until you're of age, to keep you safe' (because that is harder). I see it all the time on here, people going 'No I don't check my 14-year-old's phone, he deserves some privacy.' It's just an excuse.

If a fifteen-year-old finds out (or suspects) you've read her most intimate sexual thoughts in her diary and feels angry and betrayed, you have torpedoed the chance to initiate these important conversations in a context of mutual trust and honesty. You have created a situation in which the teenager, no matter how much she might say what you want to hear, is very likely to become more secretive, less honest with you, less willing to genuinely take on board what you have to say. Because you have casually violated her natural expectation that her bloody diary (fgs) is private.

I was actually talking about any woman who died during rough sex (including the subset who are murdered)

I wouldn't group them together at all.

Some women might have consented to sex, but the sex then turns to assault or rape and then murder. That's not dying during sex, that's dying because you're murdered, dying during a rape, dying during an assault......

All of those bastards try to use the 'rough sex' defence, but I would say the chances of dying during consensual choking are miniscule.

That doesn't mean that the risks shouldn't be spoken about but I think it's extremely offensive to describe women who have been murdered as 'dying during rough sex' because that's not what happened.

you are going to have to find an article about this being dangerous....and non chalantly read headline to your 'partner' when she happens to be in the room ie Wow this poor girl has just died from X' or stage watching a movie that has the subject in it so hopefully trigger a conversation.

Thank you for further comments, am reading and reflecting...

Just reading this as a teacher and have had a look at 'I can't consent to this' as suggested by a previous poster. Have a confidential word with school, tell them what's happened - ask to speak to the DSL and ask them to teach it in PSHE at school. That way she will learn about the dangers but it won't have come from you.

@lillyblossoms
Parents should be speaking to their kids about this stuff though.
While I disagree with those who think that it all comes from porn I also know that porn heavily influences it, and all of us adults know what's in porn so we all should be talking to our kids about it. I always did with mine.

I understand the OP doesn't want her to know that she's read it in her diary, but if she hasn't had these talks already then I would be finding a way to start doing it instead of relying on the school mentioning it. I certainly wouldn't feel confident that my child was aware of the dangers or that they took the warnings on board due to a brief chat in school.

I'm not in the UK, but is that topic even covered in PSHE in schools and if it's not specifically part of the curriculum then are they even allowed to mention it to the class?