How do you cope with rudeness/swearing/violence?

[Sinequa]

My eldest is 12 and is in Yr 7. Puberty has well and truly kicked in so I consider her a teenager. We are having serious problems with her behaviour which are adversely affecting family life (and I am worried about what the younger one sees and hears). We are on the waiting list for private counselling. We have called the police in the past. She is rude. She swears. She hits us. She damages property. She wishes us all dead. No one outside the house would have a clue. For the most part, she saves this behaviour for home.

How do we all cope whilst waiting for treatment? The behaviour is sporadic rather than constant but the triggers are not easy to foresee so we never know when an outburst might happen. Often I think that she just needs a huge hug but she pushes us away again and again.

Also, when the outburst is over, I am struggling to return to ‘normal’ with her and be loving/affectionate. If another adult treated me the way she does, I’d never have anything to do with them. Has anyone got any wise words for me? We are getting desperate. The latest outburst started at the weekend and we have barely seen her this week. She goes to her room and stays there. I have no idea how she is. We feel we are failing her but I genuinely don’t know what to do. That was longer than I expected.

Thanks for any advice or strategies.

@Sinequa have you shown her any of the recordings? If so how did she react??

I think you misread. I suggested removing yourself from situations - not trying to move her. You can also remove her sibling from those situations. Not in a dramatic way just in a 'come watch this/help in the kitchen/come for a walk'. There seems to be a lot of fighting for control. Ultimately as the parent and adult you have control. You need to decide how much you are willing to cede as she transitions from child to adult.

Contrite. Tearful. Embarrassed. At the time but it doesn’t last.

Ah that's crap...so sorry OP

Yes, I see what you say. If we move away in the house, she follows, continuing the abuse. I don’t know if I’ve described very well the intensity and reach of her outbursts. She can be destructive as well as violent. I’ve said to DH often that if he’d done the same/similar, I’d have fled/had him arrested/divorced. I know the drama is for attention. On occasion, we have gone out when she kicks off but that just feels so mean and I worry again about the impact on/how it looks to her sibling when we leave the house without her. I know I sound like I’m batting away good strategies but we really have tried lots and always end up back at square one.

Well done in taking her sibling to the treat instead

Consequences do work.

I'm still reading and listening.
I've been there with an out of control teen DD. She's now 40 and is lovely so there's hope!

I'm not sure how the police is where you are but where I was, I could have my daughter arrested for assault if necessary.

Her school had a zero tolerance policy and when she and another girl got into a physical fight at school, they were both arrested and taken to a juvenile detention place.

I was devastated. She thought it was hilarious.

If you have the option of having her arrested next time she assaults anyone in the household, then do it.
It may be the wake up call and consequences she needs.
The police and detention people are well trained in these things and being locked up and the talks from them should have a huge impact which she needs.

Then again, she may think it is hilarious like my DD at the time did.

It's far better to have a controlled consequence like that than for her to take a swing at the wrong person and get the shit kicked out of her.

The violence seems to be limited for now to us but you’re right to flag the risks if she acts up elsewhere. I feel winded tonight. DD was mid-tirade about what a terrible mother I am and how she wouldn’t care if I died and wouldn’t bother to attend my funeral if I did. This stuff is water off a duck’s back by now, sadly, but then she brought up my dad who I adored. He died before she was born but we talk about him often. She had a bit of a build up of nasty words then said ‘oh, what song did they play when he died, again? Was it ‘fuck you?’ He was a doctor who saved many lives. They lined the streets at his funeral as she knows. Well, I broke down. How could she be so contemptuous and unfeeling? How has she turned out like this? I know no one has the answers but this is a new low.

Am very sorry you are hurting OP.
She is taunting you for a reaction knowing it will hurt the most referring to your dad.
I hope you find a way to put her words to one side and have a good night's rest.

Op if she won’t go to the Counseling maybe you could and with DP? You could work together to find a way to deal with this behavior with the Councellor.
Words are one thing but the violence needs to stop. Because she isn’t behaving like this at school - she knows it won’t be accepted.
You could also learn some safe restrain techniques- so when she does try to hit you can give her an option - stop or you will be restrained. I don’t know if this is allowed in the Uk? But surely you must be permitted to defend yourself.
What are the consequences to the behavior? What is removed ? Wifi/clothes etc?
Maybe a family meeting to draw up together rules on how family members treat one another. So she feels part of the process
But definitely therapy for you and DH so you can learn how to present a United front and deal with this behavior. Then maybe the reason for the behavior will start to emerge.

I’m so sorry op, what a dreadfully difficult situation. I wish I had some advice. Most likely she will look back on these episodes with shame and dread in a few years’ time.

Good gods.

If I'd have spoken to my mother like that about her father, she would have grounded me for life.

In the mean time, confiscate the things she likes, and make her earn them back, because you do not speak to people the way she is speaking to you, without consequences.

Hi op really sorry to hear how hard it is. Reading for any help as my nearly 11 yr old has violent outbursts too.

You and me both but then I never would have and am sure the same is true for you. All tech and access to money suspended. Plenty of time to reflect on her words.

Rudeness and swearing, while annoying and less than ideal, aren’t that huge of a problem. If she is going through something difficult right now, the people she feels safest with are the people she is going to meltdown with. For a pre-teen, that can take the form of rudeness and swearing. If you think there is something larger going on, i would allow a degree of leeway here. You don’t have to condone the behavior, but coming down hard may not be productive.

violence is entirely different. That is behavior that should have consequences, but you also really need to focus on deescalating the situation before it reaches that point.

parenting a child who is misbehaving and parenting a child going through a mental health issue or who may have undiagnosed neurodiversity needs to be handled entirely differently.

Once you get help and get any necessary diagnoses, you have to learn to recognize when your teen is being a normal teenager and misbehaving and when they are acting they way they are because of underlying stress.

I would read up on asd and add in girls. This is extreme behaviour and would be very unusual in a child who hadn't either experienced some trauma or who has additional needs.

I wouldn't book her Counselling. I would book a family therapist or psychologist who has experience in girls with asd and adhd. If your daughter won't cone along to the session then you use the time to talk through her behaviour and strategies to try.

If work with families in a similar role and we see the vest outcomes when parents engage and change their behaviours rather than when the young people engage in Counselling.

I wouldn't go down a route of taking all privileges away if she has additional needs this will very likely inflame the situation.

I don't think it's helpful to compare her to what you were like as a teen. You (presumably) at her age, didn't have social media, a mobile phone, lived through a pandemic and lockdown. Covid has had a massive impact on everyone and it's only now that some of the teens who seemed to cope well at the time, are breaking down and lashing out.

Can you talk to her when she's calm and try to find out the root cause of her explosions?

Hormones are one thing but teenagers are struggling with so much more that it's hard for them to process it. They are coping with romantic relationships, friendships, where they stand on the "popular" ladder, mean boys/ girls and cruel comments, body changing, fear of periods, strict teachers, homework pressure, keeping their grades up or improving them, social media ideology and loads more.

I'd you can somehow get her to talk and find out what her issues are, you can work through resolving them. If she can't talk to you, is there a grandparent / aunt or older mentor that can get through to her. You can then work through coping strategies, she gives herself a timeout and take herself off somewhere quiet when she's feeling the red mist and can calm down.

Learning to manage and regulate emotions is all part of the teenage experience.

I'm not perfect and also rise to the bait of DDs rudeness but we both need to timeout and talk later. We then get to the crux of the "geography teacher marked me down unfairly/ I got told off in Spanish for talking and it wasn't me /Lucy is ignoring me and I don't know why". A small thing is a big thing to a teenager and the injustice of it all is too much.

Thanks again, everyone, for your input. I’ve poured over information about ASD etc in the past in the hope it would ‘explain’ some aspects of her behaviour but she really just doesn’t seem to fit this type of diagnosis. That said, I am no professional so will reconsider going to the GP.

She’s made it clear that counselling isn’t going to happen so it’s off the cards for now.

We talk at length when she’s calm but she has never really (so far as she says) been able to pinpoint the cause of some outbursts. There are easy ones to explain, like earlier this week after a very minor school related thing but even then, after reassuring her it was not the case, she continued to lament us for being disappointed in her then became angry with us. Of course, she was disappointed in herself and taking it out on us. That bit I get and can handle but these easy to explain outbursts are few and far in between.

Crossstitchingnana I found your post really interesting as we are still experiencing problems which I think stem from untreated depression. Was just wondering if your daughter was ever given a diagnosis if you don’t mind me asking

wishmyhousetidy

No she didn’t receive an official diagnosis, not that I remember anyway, but it was obvious.

Good luck.

Thankyou

I would go to her school and to social services. You are not coping, you are being horrifically abused in your own home, and you are doing her no favours. She cannot live life (regardless of SEN, anxiety anything else) thinking that other human beings exist as her punching bags. And I truly believe these situations fester and poison families when kept secret through shame or stress. I’d be going into school and asking for a meeting, explaining that you can’t keep your other children safe and they are experiencing/witnessing extreme violence within the home, and I would allow them to take any necessary next steps.

In the meantime I would explain to her that you cannot continue being abused in your home, that her feelings or emotions don’t give her the right to hurt others. And rather than ‘asking her not to do it’ I’d be removing all privileges every time she attacks a family member.

And my son is autistic by the way - in his younger years he did have violent meltdowns at times. But it was a huge huge priority for us to stamp that out by being completely open with all services involved and being very on top of it. Just because someone has different needs doesn’t mean their needs and wants overpower mine or anyone else’s in the home.