Explaining to teenage girl why it isn't safe to walk streets at night

[mumofblu]

My Dd is allowed to see friends in day at weekends and told to be home before dark unless pre arranged at someone's house and we pick her up or she is dropped off .

She wants to go out walking with her boyfriend in town at night until 9 . We've said if it's cinema , bowling etc yes but not hanging around in the city .
She goes there in the day sometimes and rule is leave town when shops close .

We don't want her wandering streets obv in town because she's not old enough to drink and not interested as far as we can tell . Her bf is same age , known to be out in dark , after being chucked out , not a good family .

How do you explain to teenager the risks of female walking alone , being out in dark .

Wr are saying because it's our rules but after Sarah Everard , Zara Aleena and many friends being attacked over the years do I start to share more details ?

How are other mums of girls approaching this with their Dd . She is 15 and not streetwise but wanting to be badass

Yes I agree with PP it’s not the dark or the chance of being attacked by a stranger that you should be worrying about. It’s her very poor judgement of people / men.

I think that whilst you could use the excuse of not wanting her out when it's dark, it's really about the company she's keeping and the choices she is making.
It's going to be getting lighter in the evenings soon and you will need a different strategy!
15 is an age where most kids are pretty savvy but not yet very experienced in life. Plus hormones, poor risk assessment skills, etc. It can be a difficult age to parent.
What are her ambitions in the next few years? GCSE choices? Part time job? Keep her eye on useful positive things.
Talk to her about consent and boundaries. Offer freedoms but with responsibility - freedom and respect are a two way street and she has to give it back.
Teens definitely respond better to rewards than sanctions.
Rather than death or rape, she's much more likely to find herself in situations that are uncomfortable and she doesn't know how to handle, give her a way she can get out, a phrase she can text you for example if she needs to be collected but doesn't want to say so in front of her friends, make sure she always has funds for a taxi and if you set a time to be home - that she contacts you if she's going to be late. Reward compliance with a little autonomy.
Hopefully this relationship won't last long and she will meet someone with a less complicated life.

Back before dark? At 15? So 4pm for most of winter? You need to unclench and get your anxiety treated.

I’d avoid making her scared or nervous - instead talk to her as a grown up about the risks but also that the ‘Sarah everad’ situation is statistically incredibly rare. I’d be agreeing mutually on some rules around being out after dark-ask her what will make her feel safe. Don’t project your own anxieties onto her.

Going by on here alone and what I see on the news and other places/peoples stories, children should be taught more be careful who you chose as people close to you rather than the random people out in the big wide world

15 is such a shit age to parent. I’d never wish to go back to those years. The dangers don’t decrease at 17/18 but their common sense and maturity increases …. usually!

That was such a rare occurrence that it made the national news! Likewise the abduction and murder of Sarah Everard.

We cannot let young girls and women live their lives in fear of something that will probably never happen. Do you not let your daughters go in cars in case they're in an accident?

I think it’s better to prepare young people for this rather than to instil fear into them. I know adult women who still won’t walk home from work at night because they weren’t taught the rules surrounding it, they were only taught that it is to be feared.

In my experience most teenage girls believe that they are invincible. When my dh warns my daughters about the need to be safe at night, I am sure that they are ignoring his advice - which, fwiw, is moderate and sensible. I know that I was utterly oblivious to danger at that age.

My advice to my dds is simple. In the event of danger, run like hell (my dds are county level runners, so have a reasonably good chance of outrunning a man). If they are actually physically attacked, go for the eyes or balls and gouge/twist. But if they freeze, and can’t respond, they are not to blame in any way. Nor are they to blame if they have walked down an unlit canal path or similar.

What are they planning on doing at 9pm in the winter, in the dark and cold that doesn't involve getting into mischief? High likelyhood of her ending up at some randoms house for drink/drugs/sex. I'd say a firm 'no' to hanging about on the streets and help them look for something to occuplike cinema, gig or whatever.

To quote Madness "I'm as honest as the day is long. The longer the daylight, the less I do wrong."

So perhaps this worry is a combination of the unsuitable company and the opportunity to get up to risky activity with them in the dark.

I was a younger kid in a mixed age group that hung around town. I did this till I was old enough to get into the pubs, so about 16 in the 80s. My experience is that girls are more likely to be observers in any group misbehaviour, sometimes they are the catalyst for violence when boys fight over them. When you hang out with a group/gang then there's a sense of tribalism so other members will look out for each other.

Would her boyfriend walk her home if you're worried about stranger attacks?

One of the best things to teach is safety in numbers. In my dc friend group, I notice that they all look out for one another. If one’s missing, they notice and they seek them out. It’s nice. Also, my parents sent me to self defence classes as a teen. Preparation is preferable to fear.

I'm 38 and I don't go running/ walking alone after dark.

The risk is tiny and it wouldn't be my fault if something happened but frankly that wouldn't make me feel any better afterwards.

I've never had a car accident so every time I've strapped the kids in I was wasting my time - but the potential consequences are life altering and I feel the same about the (tiny) risk of being attacked.

We tried to explain this to our DD but she just kept saying "women and girls should not be stopped from doing what they want. Men / rapists should be told not to rape and attack people ".

She is right but the risks remain.

It's a sad truth but one that young women need to learn, men are much stronger. Any woman who has experienced any kind of male violence is aware of this, as a woman your number one defence is to run away. That's the truth and to allow young women to walk around believing otherwise is irresponsible. The men who attack women are DISGUSTING, vile predators, but they are bigger and stronger - don't ignore that reality.

I'm surprised that you haven't been having these conversations before 15 to be honest.

She needs to be made aware of how to keep herself safe. No headphones in while she's walking alone, well lit route, trusting her instincts etc.

Being aware of the risks, and how to minimise them are the only way to keep herself safe.

I have a 16 yr old, I make myself available to do the taking/collecting. And let her know that she can call whenever needed if she feels at risk.

Also have a code for if she needs help urgently but can't speak- she to ask how her grandmother/my mum is. She's been dead for years, so I will know there's a problem.

The same way that you talk about other risks and how to mitigate them?

I have always walked on my own in the dark. My scariest moments have been during the day.

My parents didn't talk to me about this sort of thing but what I would have liked was being encouraged to talk through risks of all sorts with them, not limited to walking in the dark but also things like:

Swimming on your own
Cycling without lights/good brakes
Being alone with anyone
Fire safety

Situating walking in the dark with those sorts of things, not forbidding it out right

I went on a really good self defence course and basically what they taught you and got you to practice was:

Trust your instincts
Don't be afraid to make a loud noise, shout NO or HELP
Quick things you can do - e.g. kick someone in the shins
And then run the fuck away

Unfortunately it's a normal human response to 'freeze' - most people do. One aspect of self defense is just to teach people to react, not freeze, for example if someone grabs you or gets in your personal space. It's a sad truth that women are so indoctrinated not to 'make a scene' or make other people feel uncomfortable, that their instinct to defend their own personal space gets repressed. It may seem over the top but I'd rather 'over react' as soon as someone gets within a foot of me, than put myself in danger.

Yeah agree - I think the best thing that course did was getting you to practice making those reactions.

I have only had to do this in the day - despite walking at night all the time - which is why I just don't agree with the general advice to avoid the dark as if that solves everything

True tbh the majority of those experiences happened in the day time! But in reality my advice for any woman would be don't ever walk anywhere alone at night.

I'm on the side of saying that I refuse to let the risk stop me walking at night. It's a curtailment if my freedom that I won't accept. That says, I make choices based on the perceived risk of each individual situation.

I think self defense classes and lots of discussions of risk mitigation is better than a blanket rule.

It's important to be vocal to young people about why it isn't advisable for anyone female to walk alone at night. People should feel angry about this. However, no young woman should put herself in this position. If you know what it's like for someone you love to be attacked on the way home you'd do everything in your power to prevent it. That's the sad reality of the world we live in.

Some of these replies are interesting. Ofc we have talked about the risk and she does self defence martial arts but quite rightly she protests that

" men should learn not to attack women not woman should not walk at night "

Ofc I agree with her and her teenage brain doesn't compute what risk is . But me as a mum and an adult with experience knows that we don't live in a fair , safe society .

TBH in my case as I walk alone after dark all the time, it would be impossible for me to make it as a blanket rule for a teen as they would reasonably point out the hypocrisy