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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Using a secret phone and has extra money

56 replies

CottonPyjamas · 30/01/2023 16:20

This is a long one but there's a summary at the bottom.

My teen son has never really given me any cause for concern before. He's mostly well-mannered, does chores around the house, is doing well at school and his clubs, and this gets commented on by other adults.

I've noticed over the last year that he's been buying sweets, and then at Christmas he bought his girlfriend a gift. However, all his pocket money goes into GoHenry so I should be able to see where and when he spends it. None of these transactions have come up, and he claims to find loose change at school, or his friends have given him sweets. The quantity doesn't seem to add up though. He's not particularly careful about hiding rubbish in his bin.

Last night, I went to retrieve my phone charger from him and found him on his laptop quite late at night. He's doing mock exams at the moment so was told to turn off and get to sleep. He's been complaining about being tired lately so this is probably why. About midnight, his nursery aged sister was up and while putting her back in bed I saw a glow from the crack of his door. He was on his phone. I didn't need to say much, just held my hand out and took it to my room for the night, then spoke to him this morning about sleep especially with exams.

While he was at school, I heard an alarm/ring tone I didn't recognise and followed the sound to his room. It stopped before I could find what it was and turn it off. However, I saw his phone sticking out from an often used shoe. He'd never go to school without the phone! I picked it up and it said No Sim Card, but had the current background of him and his girlfriend and was almost fully charged. I decided to message him, and actually got a reply, so his sim card is in another device. When he came in from school, he obviously had a phone on him and it had the same background. So he's using two phones.

On his shelf was also a permission slip that he said he'd handed in to one of his clubs with payment (from his own money). When he came in I asked if he'd handed it in Friday and he said yes. So he's also lied directly too me.

I'm concerned. Money, lying and using an extra phone aren't good signs, but I'm trying not to get ahead of myself and want to get to the bottom of this without him feeling alienated. Especially if there are problems.

Does anyone have any advice, please?

TLDR: my teen son is generally a really good kid, but he's had extra money that makes me suspicious, lied about handing a form and payment in to a club, and today I found a second phone in use that he appears to be swapping sim cards in and out of.

OP posts:
grayhairdontcare · 30/01/2023 16:23

Honestly this is not a good sign and I would be really concerned about county lines.
You need an honest conversation with him.

LilLilLi · 30/01/2023 16:25

I agree with a previous poster, this is very concerning and you need to take it seriously.

If he can’t, or refuses to tell you how he has access to extra money and why there is a second phone tell him you have no choice but to contact the police and mean it.

AuntSallie · 30/01/2023 16:29

I agree you need to have a conversation with him. However, you need to be prepared to hear that he may be feeling suffocated by the control you have over his life. He could be earning money PT perfectly legally and simply wish to have control over and privacy regarding his phone and how he spends his money. He’s a bit old for Go Henry- as it’s designed for preteens. He should have a proper bank account by now.

A teenager wishing to be treated more like an adult is normal, so county lines (being a drug mule for gangs), isn’t the usual reason for this sort of behaviour.

GreenLeavesRustling · 30/01/2023 16:31

I agree with PP. I would be very concerned, also about county lines. Kids who have previously never been in trouble can be actively targeted for that very reason.
I have two teenage boys, this would be a huge red flag situation and I’d be very active in trying to manage it - firstly through understanding talk. The very clever thing about county lines is that is starts through friends doing favours and ends in blackmail. For example, child is befriended and given gifts , small things, then child is asked to look after something for a few days. Later child is asked to deliver or pass on something. Child declines or is concerned, then they are told that the previous thing they handled was drugs, and they they will be reported to police / similar if they don’t comply this time. Soon, child is completely over their head, being threatened, blackmailed and coerced.

i really hope it isn’t this.

caramac04 · 30/01/2023 16:37

Having worked with nice kids who were targeted by bastard county lines I would be worried.
Unexplained money and a second phone are very often signs of being used.
If so there is a real risk, almost certain, that he will get in over his head. Blackmail and violence are not uncommon.
I don’t want to scare you but you need to find out if this is the case and support your dc to get away from this if so.

lailamaria · 30/01/2023 16:38

i agree with @AuntSallie maybe he's just feeling suffocated especially because he's got a go henry card and that's really designed for pre-teens maybe he's making money a different way as in maybe doing art commissions or something similar, talk to him but don't make out like you're accusing him

caramac04 · 30/01/2023 16:39

This might help

Using a secret phone and has extra money
CottonPyjamas · 30/01/2023 16:40

Honestly, this is where my mind has leapt to. I tried talking to him about the money previously and explained how it can be a sign of dealing drugs. He kept trying to reassure me that he either finds the money or he's given sweets.

Finding the phone today has really worried me. I'm trying not to put 2 and 2 together and make 5. I'm also trying to figure out how to approach this without risking him denying anything if he's in trouble

OP posts:
PeekAtYou · 30/01/2023 16:44

Is it a smart phone or dumb phone? Some dumb phones save texts and message logs to the phone rather than SIM.

CottonPyjamas · 30/01/2023 16:50

AuntSallie · 30/01/2023 16:29

I agree you need to have a conversation with him. However, you need to be prepared to hear that he may be feeling suffocated by the control you have over his life. He could be earning money PT perfectly legally and simply wish to have control over and privacy regarding his phone and how he spends his money. He’s a bit old for Go Henry- as it’s designed for preteens. He should have a proper bank account by now.

A teenager wishing to be treated more like an adult is normal, so county lines (being a drug mule for gangs), isn’t the usual reason for this sort of behaviour.

Thank you for another point of view. Unfortunately, I know he's not earning the money PT. I also don't control how he spends his money, and give him privacy with his phone, unless I believe there's a reason to intervene for his own safety. That truly doesn't happen often. I'd be far happier if your reasoning came to be the explanation

OP posts:
FairyBatman · 30/01/2023 17:02

I would echo pp comments about county lines. Anything involving unexplained money or high value items in a teen would be a big cause for concern.

The other explanation for the second phone could be that he's been handing in one phone and moving the SIM card to another so he can carry on texting, but there's still the question of where it came from.

If it was my DS I'd be insisting on going through both phones to see all the messages etc

W0tnow · 30/01/2023 17:19

He doesn’t ‘find’ the money. Honestly, when was the last time you found 50 quid in the street? 😐

If he was working PT perfectly legally, why on earth wouldn’t he say so?

DartholomewSpaceInvader · 30/01/2023 17:42

What is the pastoral team at his school like? In my case with my dd (slightly different problem) there was a fantastic staff member who was very clued up and massively helpful. If I were in your situation I think this is who I would approach for support. Also, they may be aware of things going on around school that you might not be.

CottonPyjamas · 30/01/2023 17:43

A small update since I last posted...

I've taken his sister to her dance class and before I left I went up to say goodbye to him. He had both phones on the bed, with one of them charging. I asked him about it and he said his dad (my husband) had asked if he had an old phone he could use for work. He claimed to be charging it to see if it works but said it's losing charge. He tried to demonstrate this but it didn't happen. He then said he'd get rid of the phone. I said I'd take it to recycle it for him, so I'm now in possession of the phone.

I've messaged my husband (he's working away) and he's said that he hasn't asked for a phone.

OP posts:
Rollergirl11 · 30/01/2023 18:11

Well have you looked through the phone? How did he seem when you took it away from him? You’ve caught him in a lie now so you really need to get to the bottom of this.

CottonPyjamas · 30/01/2023 18:49

Rollergirl11 · 30/01/2023 18:11

Well have you looked through the phone? How did he seem when you took it away from him? You’ve caught him in a lie now so you really need to get to the bottom of this.

My last post was from the dance class so I haven't had much chance to go through it thoroughly yet. A cursory glance seems to show that there's nothing on it since September.

He seemed okay but had offered to get rid of the phone himself. He couldn't really say much when I said I just recycle it properly.

I'm keeping quiet about my suspicions at the moment while I try and determine if there's any evidence. I don't want him defensively hiding something. I'll have his normal phone tonight too

OP posts:
sandranista · 30/01/2023 19:14

I'd be having a chat with his school see if they have noticed anything.

KendrickLamaze · 30/01/2023 19:24

My mind would also go to county lines BUT one phone says no sim? How would he be using it for that? WhatsApp needs a number and as soon as he left the house, unless he was using a hotspot he wouldn't be able to receive and send messages.

Are they iPhones? The fact they have the same background could simply mean he has the same profile on both. For example, I have my old iPhone and new iPhone. Both of them have the same background and updates happening to them but one is Kendrick's iPhone and the other is Kendrick's iPhone (2).

CottonPyjamas · 30/01/2023 19:32

Well I got home from the dance class and took my son to one of his clubs. I've just settled my youngest in bed and gone to have a look through the phone. It's missing. But my phone charger that my son had been using was on my bed. Usually he'd leave it at my door rather than walk the couple of extra metres. I'm trying to get hold of my husband, but as I mentioned before he's working away and he said earlier they're having thunderstorms. My WhatsApp message is currently sitting with one tick. I had a look in my son's room for the phone and came across a lego set I didn't recognise under his duvet. It's release date was only last year. The stickers in it hadn't even been used yet, which for him means he hasn't had it long.

I wanted more evidence but I'm going to talk to him when he gets back later as he's obviously got something to hide. I can talk with his school tomorrow depending on how tonight's discussion goes. They're really good

OP posts:
Ihatepcos · 30/01/2023 19:32

All very odd and quite concerning. You know for sure that he's lying to you so I hope you are able to get some answers

Johnduttonsbuttocks · 30/01/2023 19:37

he either finds the money or he's given sweets.

This is ludicrous.
County lines is the first thing I thought of.
cscp.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/4206.1-County-lines-leaflet-final-web.pdf

CottonPyjamas · 30/01/2023 19:40

KendrickLamaze · 30/01/2023 19:24

My mind would also go to county lines BUT one phone says no sim? How would he be using it for that? WhatsApp needs a number and as soon as he left the house, unless he was using a hotspot he wouldn't be able to receive and send messages.

Are they iPhones? The fact they have the same background could simply mean he has the same profile on both. For example, I have my old iPhone and new iPhone. Both of them have the same background and updates happening to them but one is Kendrick's iPhone and the other is Kendrick's iPhone (2).

Sorry, I'm trying to get through all the messages while doing the normal evening routine.

Both phones are Samsungs. He gets second hand phones from us and his grandparents and we pay for his sim. It is one of older phones, but it was charged up, turned on, and had a recent photo with his girlfriend on. They've only been dating since November/December. However, the text messages and phone calls only dated up until September.

OP posts:
Rollergirl11 · 30/01/2023 19:45

So it’s one of your old phones rather than one you don’t recognise? I’d be more reassured by that. Does he have social media on his normal phone? Instagram, Snapchat and TikTok? If not my thoughts would be he’s using the other phone for SM? Or maybe for conversing with his girlfriend?

HereBeFuckery · 30/01/2023 19:51

Only he can tell you what's happening, but your approach is fantastic - he's so lucky that you care enough not to give up and accept what he tells you.

He's now taken back a phone that was confiscated, so I'd open with wanting to understand what his thought process was. Can you ask him if he felt scared that you'd found the second phone? He might find it easier to explain if he sees that you are worried for him.

IndecisiveMama · 30/01/2023 20:13

Hi! It sounds like the second phone might be a red herring if it could be one of your old units. He may have it to play games offline at school / school or to access different email accounts or social media accounts. The money - or rather lying about money - is concerning. Could he have taken it from your purse or does he have Christmas money that you have forgotten about? Could he have sold second hand clothes online (super common) or bought sweets from the Coop and sold for a mark up at school. Basically, I am suggesting that there is a whole range of scenarios here and you know your son best! Do you go hardcore and assume the worst to flush out a more minor misdemeanour? Or do you start small and then work up? Good luck!!!! I think I would just talk to him, explain your concerns and watch his body language. In my experience, these conversations are easiest when the teenagers come to you ... late at night generally. You got this!