Teen boy buying into Gender stereotypes

[MissyB1]

Currently trying to undo the harm A Tate has been doing to 14 year old ds 🙄

We had a long chat (very useful) last night about why he follows Tate and his kind. Ds talked about his need to be “masculine”, turns out his head is full of unhealthy and unhelpful ideas of what being a “man” actually means. 😩 Think macho culture!

It’s so frustrating because I deliberately tried to bring him up to be able to talk about feelings and emotions, to show care and concern for others etc.. And up until about a year ago he was capable of all that. Now he says that’s not how men are “genetically programmed to behave” And that he must not do those things. aaarrgh!

Now I know some of this is just puberty and sort of normal teen boy stuff. But at the same time I want to point out the potential harms of the stereotype he is buying into.

Im not sure where to start? And what resources will a teen boy be able to relate to? I would be very grateful for ideas.

Does he have a girlfriend?
I’m going to guess he doesn’t.

and he never will with this attitude.
hell end up alone and with STD’s galore with Tate as a role model.

I would suggest once you’ve got a few replies here, letting him read them himself.

Good luck, I have a DD and DS and I worry more for DS future than I do DD.. for these kinds of reasons. I want him to grow up kind and respectful but there’s so much shite online to fill their heads.

There is nothing wrong with being a masculine man. As long as he has respect and core values I see no problem. You wouldn't mind if a daughter was masculine or if a son was feminine.

How is he accessing this content first of all? I’d be thinking about that. I assume you are paying for the phone contract that’s enabling his access? Secondly I’d want to discuss how well this is working currently for Mr A Tate who is residing in jail on sex trafficking charges.

Gosh that's tricky OP. I agree with a PP that's there's nothing wrong with being masculine per se. I've got a DS17 who's about as stereotypically male as it gets. But he also utmost respect for women and has a girlfriend who he treats really well. The 2 aren't mutually exclusive and he needs role models that demonstrate that. Easier said than done!

Her son is saying he is not "genetically programmed" to talk about feelings and emotions, that's not healthy and normal and there is a lot wrong with that

Just read this which is lengthy but useful:

www.connectfutures.org/2023/01/misogyny-red-pills-and-extreme-figures-how-to-approach-the-online-space-with-young-people-in-2023/

I think it's very challenging OP. On the one side boys have misogynists like Andrew Tate pushing toxic masculinity on to them as the way to be a man. On the other side they have the 'progressives' on social media also reinforcing very narrow gender stereotypes, i.e. if you don't fit the stereotypical male mode then you're something other than male. There are very few voices actually pushing back against all this toxic gender stereotyping and telling boys (and girls) that it's ok to just be themselves.

Yes but what is meant by "being masculine"? thats my worry? How to persuade him that being a good person is whats really important, not how masculine you are - whatever that means!

Very tricky.
Maybe watch with him films with masculine role models.

Thank you @massistar thats very helpful actually and I'm going to get him to read it too.

I try hard to listen carefully to his arguments as some of what he's saying is important, such as men feeling uncertain about their place in society, what their role is etc.. Now I tried to adress that particualr point with him last night, explaning that a mans role is exactly the same as a womans! To be a good person, contribute to society, have a work ethic, take care of your health etc.. There's no special requirements that relate purely to either sex, human beings are human beings basically. He was noticeably shocked at that idea!

That's good @MissyB1 . It's important to keep talking to him. We often have robust family discussions about sex, gender and stereotyping in general around the table.

What kind of male role models does he have around him? Is his dad around? What's his input to this?

Yes Dh and I have a happy marriage and ds is the centre of DH’s world. Unfortunately Dh was brought up in a very gender stereotypical household, although he doesn’t act like that most of the time, unfortunately sometimes that upbringing slips out. For example he gets very uncomfortable at the idea of a man crying, that was not acceptable in his youth. He understands we have to be careful what we say and what we role model in front of ds, but he can and does forget sometimes.

That is an absolutely terrific piece @massistar and well worth reading.

The same author has written another article on incels and misogyny terrorism which is similarly detailed, enlightening and (oddly) compassionate; it's linked at the bottom of the one you linked to.

He's actually doing well at school, keeps out of trouble, quite sporty, joins clubs and extra curricular. He's liked by the teachers.

I don't think he's just getting his views from A Tate though, there are lots of versions of Tate out there I'm beginning to realise. And algorithms being what they are he's in danger of being trapped in an echo chamber.

Yes trying to get dh engaged in this is bloody hard work! He struggles to talk about "awkward" stuff to ds. I suspect he also thinks I'm over reacting.

I have two grown up sons, one in his 30s and one late 20s. They are loathe to get involved as they don't want to argue with their beloved baby brother! They are both very sensible well balanced young men, but this kind of online grooming wasn't a thing when they were teens.

If he's genuinely looking up to a rapist then I'd remove all Internet access until I felt like he was fully understanding how vile these people are. He's being radicalised and I would do everything in my power to stop it. I have a 14 year old girl and the attitude of boys in her school is TERRIFYING. Thank god she's a lesbian, not that that keeps her completely safe, but safer than some. Tate and his kind are an absolute plague on teenagers

Agree with @Wellwell82 , your DH and older sons need to take this very seriously. If he was involved in racism or extreme homophobia, following and listening to people who advocated hurting gay people, what would you do? Do that.

Have you heard the latest episode of 'oh god what now?' Podcast. They talk about Tate on it at one bit towards the end I found it really interesting/helpful..

I have a 16 year old and for what it's worth, his view is that Tate must be deeply inadequate. Not a useful.masculine role model. This is from a rugby playing massive 16 year old, who cooks exceptionally well.

Yesterday on R4's Today programme they spoke about this and one of the interviewees was a teacher who taught teenage lads, many of whom were Tate fans. He compared Tate with other masculine role models, including a rugby league player who now runs ultramarathons for charity. I really liked the idea of positive masculinity and recommend this (sorry can't remember the name of the rugby league player)

Good point! It’s extremism. I need to get the whole family on board, need to put my foot down!