Teen boy buying into Gender stereotypes

[MissyB1]

Currently trying to undo the harm A Tate has been doing to 14 year old ds 🙄

We had a long chat (very useful) last night about why he follows Tate and his kind. Ds talked about his need to be “masculine”, turns out his head is full of unhealthy and unhelpful ideas of what being a “man” actually means. 😩 Think macho culture!

It’s so frustrating because I deliberately tried to bring him up to be able to talk about feelings and emotions, to show care and concern for others etc.. And up until about a year ago he was capable of all that. Now he says that’s not how men are “genetically programmed to behave” And that he must not do those things. aaarrgh!

Now I know some of this is just puberty and sort of normal teen boy stuff. But at the same time I want to point out the potential harms of the stereotype he is buying into.

Im not sure where to start? And what resources will a teen boy be able to relate to? I would be very grateful for ideas.

Positive masculinity-
men who are responsible parents and partners, employees and employers.
Men who use their superior strength to protect those who are weaker, rather than to dominate them.

The kind of person who makes the world better for everyone, not just for the chosen few.

I think the problem with this idea that "Tate" is bad is unhelpful, you need to understand why these boys look up to him.
It's not always because they are all misogynistic and hate women, but the fact that he is very rich, the lifestyle is what they aspire to, luxury cars, houses, holiday, beautiful women on their arms.
It's materialistic for sure but not necessarily negative, and by shutting down any conversation with Tate is bad will not help young boys who are wanting his lifestyle rather than agreeing with his views.

Of course this is not always the case are there are plenty who will fall for his misogynistic bullshit, but I think we need to separate it out when dealing with boys that look up to him.

You need to read The men that hate women by Laura bates. She talks a lot about how young men / kids that are targeted on social media. This might help him understand how he's being manipulated into this way of thinking. Im not saying for him to read it but it's hopefully will give you the information to help him understand.

To be honest it he's doing well at school, I would ask his school to support you to challenge this. A male coach or teacher would be a great person to challenge these stereotypes.

I would also try getting him to look at content on Jordan Peterson who's more rounded and still into "masculinity". He needs something that engages him and appeals to his point of view (he's less emotional) but helps guide him to a slightly more centralised view point.

Perhaps a conversation about the vulnerability of men and women in different situations would be helpful. That while he may feel women are advantaged and have power in certain ways, this is to redress their disadvantage in others. He probably doesn't see it, as he's surrounded by strong women and well behaved men. When you see a man use his strength against women, you understand why that strength needs great responsibility.

I'd restrict internet access at least for a while on the basis that I would do the same if he was accessing racist material. This is misogynistic: "I don't want that rubbish in my house" etc.

You could start by getting him a book on genetics, Genetic for Dummies maybe. Then one of hormones. If he thinks this is a scientific fact, prove him wrong with science!

Your DH and other DS really need to be stepping up here OP. Misogyny is a male problem - it shouldn't be your (female) job to explain to your son why it is wrong. In my experience a lot of men are very quick to say 'we're not all like that' when women collectively raise our voices about misogyny, but when one who is 'like that' pops up in their midst they're not particularly quick to tackle them either. Misogyny affects women, so it's a women's problem to fix (ie to put in the emotional labour of making men understand why it's wrong) seems to be the default setting for a lot of the 'but I'm not like that' men.

There's being masculine, then there's Tate's version of masculinity.

One is fine, the other is abhorrent!

Schools are really struggling to manage this at the moment. Have you tried Googling for advice?

Yes it’s very annoying that I am trying to deal with this on my own.

Restricting internet for a 14 year old is impossible, it’s delusional to think we can stop them from viewing certain material or following certain people. I live in the real world and prefer to discuss and educate rather than place outright bans - which would be doomed to fail.

School are addressing the whoe AT thing, they have spoken to the whole year group themselves, but have now organised an outside speaker and a workshop. However I would like to know what ongoing conversations are being had about gender stereotypes, so I might send an email asking about that.

Was he brought up watching the Lord of the rings? Because Aragon is widely mentioned as being the ideal 'man'. He has strength and courage but also compassion and knows when to take a step back nd let others lead. He also is capable of discussing his feelings with women. Is he imasculine?

I'd tell him that fear of ones own feelings doesn't make a man masculine, it makes them a coward. And men who tell mhow other men need to be, usually aren't the people who have good advice.

Actually this one might be better as it's two guys discussing him so your son may be more inclined to listen.

Also consider btw any other hero's he had growing up that were supporters of women and not toxic af.

Not sure why it's "impossible" to stop his Internet access? If he was involved with a terrorist group or gang online would you say the same? I feel like you're not understanding how serious it is at all. Guessing you don't have a daughter?

You are living in la la land if you think you can stop a teen being able to access the internet! They don’t just access it at home you know!

Oh and if I wasn’t taking this seriously then I wouldn’t even be bothering about it would I? I wouldn’t be seeking support and ideas, I wouldn’t be having these conversations with him. I’m keeping the lines of communication open, I’m listening to him, I’m not shutting him down and demonising him. Perhaps I know a bit about parenting because I’ve been doing it for 32 years? I know that draconian measures result in resentment and rebellion, and ultimately they fail

My boys are just as important to me as your dd is to you. My boy’s safety and his future happiness is just as important. That’s why I’m tackling this.

What I have done this evening is go through his you tube account, deleting lots of links to videos he’s been viewing and attempting to alter the algorithms.

Fair enough. I personally would take away my daughters phone, all devices etc and ground her if I found out she had become involved in a racist extremist group for example. If she had friends involved in the same I would stop her seeing them and move her schools if needed. Its that important. He is being radicalised, so so many are and its terrifying. The attitude of boys I used to have round to my house, kids who were lovely sweet little boys shes grown up with, is terrifying. Even the ones who arent joining in with it, arent fighting it or sticking up for the girls.

I didn't mean to say you're not taking it seriously, it's just such a huge issue and in my view needs extreme measures.

As BigYellowElephant said.

Otherwise he's going to be an incel.

What's the obsession with being masculine, he can grow up and respect women and still be a man and not end up as an arse hole women avoid like the plague.

F.D Signifier's YouTube channel is a really rich resource on topics like toxic masculinity vs healthy expressions of masculinity, white supremacy, homophobia, edgelords, misogyny etc. that are so prevalent on the social media young men and boys are consuming.

This video on Dissecting the Manosphere is a good place to start: It's a deep dive but well worth persevering with. The section on young white men begins at 12mins 40secs if you don't want to sit through the intro. Although that is just as measured and excellent.

I’m proud of my boys, two eldest brought up entirely by me whilst I worked full time. We lived in shitty accommodations and they had to go to the roughest school in town. Both now have good jobs in the public sector, have got on the property ladder, and are giving back to society. They aren’t “weak” they’ve been bloody strong and independent - they had to be. I said they adore their brother and don’t like to argue with him. But they actually would do anything for him, they are kind caring men who chose to work in jobs helping vulnerable people. I’m very proud of how I brought them up.

So fuck off with sneering at my parenting.

You need to talk to him about healthy vs unhealthy masculinity. Does he understand that AT is a rapist and a sex trafficker? I would be telling him how deeply hurt I would be as his mother to have my son agreeing with someone like that.

If he pushes about this gender role nonsense just keep asking him WHY. They can’t justify it because it’s made up bollocks. Show him times and cultures with completely different perspectives on what “masculine” is. Let him know high heels were designed for men and pink used to be the “boy” colour. It’s all bullshit. If he feels lost- he needs to find direction in a healthy way- not by following some sad bald perv.