Teen boy buying into Gender stereotypes

[MissyB1]

Currently trying to undo the harm A Tate has been doing to 14 year old ds 🙄

We had a long chat (very useful) last night about why he follows Tate and his kind. Ds talked about his need to be “masculine”, turns out his head is full of unhealthy and unhelpful ideas of what being a “man” actually means. 😩 Think macho culture!

It’s so frustrating because I deliberately tried to bring him up to be able to talk about feelings and emotions, to show care and concern for others etc.. And up until about a year ago he was capable of all that. Now he says that’s not how men are “genetically programmed to behave” And that he must not do those things. aaarrgh!

Now I know some of this is just puberty and sort of normal teen boy stuff. But at the same time I want to point out the potential harms of the stereotype he is buying into.

Im not sure where to start? And what resources will a teen boy be able to relate to? I would be very grateful for ideas.

My oldest son (now 16) went through a very brief Andrew Tate phase, I don't think he ever took anything he said seriously but liked the 'shock value' of it. What turned him off was actually the incessant bragging about money and cars, and from there just started to think he was an idiot.

I had never heard of him until my son started talking about him so was not initially worried by it, and in my sons case the more he listened to him the less he liked, but I get that it does not always work out like that.

I think it helps thanks to his sports/hobbies he mixes with a good range of people, including older guys, and they are generally the types who are pretty productive - jobs, girlfriends, activities. Even if your older sons don't want to discuss this issue with him just taking him out and spending time with him if they can will probably help.

Lol and MN wonders why gender disappointment happens.

Your son has a very typical attitude at his age that merely betrays his immaturity and they say you are a shit parent. What a fucking joke.

You could try posting in the ‘MensLib’ board on Reddit if you want different advice. It’s a progressive board which tends to be based around critiquing the toxic aspects of traditional gender roles from s male perspective.

www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/

There have been threads there discussing Andrew Tate before (the second link below may help if you are looking to provide your son with some alternative masculinity role models).
www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/w5pt13/is_anyone_else_concerned_about_the_rise_of/

www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/10d331r/who_are_some_male_selfhelp_podcastersfigures_who/

Not sure why my links aren’t working but I’ll try again.

www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/w5pt13/is_anyone_else_concerned_about_the_rise_of/

www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/10d331r/who_are_some_male_selfhelp_podcastersfigures_who/

Thank you to those who have been understanding and offered constructive advice and links to useful material. I do really think a lot of this is typical teenage angst, looking for a “cause” etc.. The main thing I intend to do is keep the lines of communication open, he needs to trust that I will hear him without belittling or demonising him. Obviously I will attempt to guide him in a positive direction.

Interestingly I spoke to a friend today who is a well qualified practising counsellor, and she’s going through this with her teen boy too. She reassured me that I’m doing all the right things by being aware, educating myself, listening to him, and encouraging his hobbies and sports.

I had a read of this this morning...
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/misogynist-andrew-tate-arrest-romania-hustlers-university-h9sr0lsh5

You could look at training like this www.eventbrite.com/e/tackling-tate-and-misogyny-in-schools-tickets-516006618687

Bit worrying Jordan Peterson is being suggested as an alternative ‘role model’ 😱 I’m sure OP will ignore that!

Depends, I'm a very big fan of Jordan Peterson personally.

it worrying Jordan Peterson is being suggested as an alternative ‘role model’ 😱 I’m sure OP will ignore that!

Peterson is quite encouraging for young men, I think he’s one of the few willing to address their malaise and give positive suggestions, so on that point he’s very good.

What is harmful about his general message of personal growth and responsibility? (Tbh he could use his own advice 😆)

Yes he’s also into Jordan Peterson, not quite as toxic but I still don’t want ds to swallow everything the man says. I think there’s a fine line to be trod between accepting ds admires some of their principles (which aren’t all necessarily terrible), and acknowledging to him that some of those principles are not terrible , but helping him to recognise the toxic content.
Continuing to talk is the main thing, letting him know I will listen and discuss.

Would ut help ro take him go an art gallery and show him that men looked very different in the past? Eg long hair, high heels and brightly coloured clothes were all masculine styles in centuries and decades gone by, so let his wardrobe flourish. So called feminine activities such as embroidery and nursing were done by men (they got paid for it). Ultimately he needs to know that gender is simply a set of unwritten rules sbout who can't do what that change all the time while sex is immutable. Could I suggest that you and dh swap domestic jobs and clothes (assuming they fit) so ds can see this in action. And drag him into the kitchen! The feminine arts are about survival and staying healthy; we all need to feed, clothe and keep ourselves clean.

Good luck!

we are not genetically programmed to use smartphones/internet or antibiotics or vaccines - should we shun these things?

how would he react to someone mugging him and taking his mobile phone? - oh, the person is just genetically programmed to take what they want, survival of the fittest…I mean animals murder each other - is that how humans should behave? What would society be like if they did?

society functions best when we co-operate with each other and follow the rules. Life is better due to work of scientists, games creators, authors, firefighters - any of whom may be geeky, sporty, big, small, sociable, quiet, focused. We are good at different things and society needs all these talents.

i would also have discussions with him about relationships and consent.

It sounds like you’re doing what you can, and doing it well. You’re not invalidating DS’s feelings, but also trying to navigate them in a healthy way, getting him to see the not so good parts of Tate’s teachings. I couldn’t really give you any extra advice, as you’re doing well already with it all. Keep chipping away at it, is my only advice here.

😂😂😂😭 Well said!

"What I have done this evening is go through his you tube account, deleting lots of links to videos he’s been viewing and attempting to alter the algorithms." I did this too for my son when he started going down a similar path. It didn't work.

"personally would take away my daughters phone, all devices etc and ground her if I found out she had become involved in a racist extremist group for example. If she had friends involved in the same I would stop her seeing them and move her schools if needed. Its that important. He is being radicalised, so so many are and its terrifying." I agree with this post above. I have now done this for my son age 14.5. What is happening is really scary and I think many parents are in the dark about this. This is going to affect a whole generation of young men if we're not careful - these ideas are insidious and nasty and they spread like wildfire.