Would you make your teenager attend a detention under these circumstances?

[RoastOtter]

DS is in year 11. He has been given a detention for not having his shirt tucked in twice last week. I will add he is always in clean and correct uniform complete with blazer and tie every day. He just sometimes had his shirt out

He didn't attend today. I asked him why not and he said he would always go to one for lack of homework or talking in class but he didn't see the point just for having his shirt untucked

For not attending, he needs to go tomorrow until 5pm. And then, if he doesn't go to that, he will be isolated the following day from lunch time and made to stay in school until 5pm

I'm torn. Instinctively I want to say ' you know the rules on uniform, bloody well go to the detention'

On the other hand, I think it's ridiculous. He's had 2 detentions in his entire time at school and he's almost 16. One for lack of homework and one for too much talking, so he's not particularly badly behaved. He attended both of these

So what would you do? Force him to go because those are the rules? Or something else?

Unless teenagers have changed a huge amount since I was at school then wearing the uniform incorrectly won't always be an accident. They like pushing boundaries. It's normal and no big deal but I wouldn't encourage him to turn it into a huge stand off with the school.

Who decides which rules are "silly"?

Rules and consequences are set by society - and being members of that society means following the rules or facing the consequences. The alternative is to leave the society in question.

Schools are a type of society with rules and consequences.

In wider society those rules include not stealing etc. Just because someone decides they think that rule is silly, doesn't make it ok for them to break it, or ignore the consequences.

Your son is part of the school. He can follow the rules - even if he thinks they're silly, or he can accept the consequences. Or he can leave that society.

Rules in smaller societies teach us what is expected in wider society. They teach us about consequences. This is the lesson I would want my dd to learn here - yes she can disagree, but that she accepts the consequences of her choices.

What if your son decided that not being allowed to just help himself to family money was "silly" - would you make him face the consequences, or let him decide to swerve them?

They’re the rules, he goes and cracks on.

Yes, and this is a classic example.

It's a stupid, pointless rule and I see no harm in parents acknowledging that to their kids. The kids are not stupid and can see it fit themselves, so there is no point trying to pretend that there is a good reason behind all rules. Some of them are clearly absurd.

That said, I think kids should be encouraged to recognise that, regardless of how stupid some rules are, they are still the rules and therefore gave to be observed. However, it is perfectly possible for them to observe the rules while simultaneously campaigning against them in an appropriate way. That is how I would be teaching my dd to respond to stupid pointless rules that she doesn't agree with. Not blind acceptance in the slightest, but not blatant disregard for the rules either. Respectful, effective protest is the way to go.

You are making excuses. No wonder he doesn’t feel he should attend.

If he wore his tie around his head would you be saying he is still in the correct uniform?

If he wants to be a twit, let him. Its him suffering for his twittishness now.

Sometimes in life there are stupid rules to follow.

I agree with him! It's a power thing for these teachers, it's pathetic. I never went to detentions and I've had a successful life!

Although also if it was a sensible school, the school would not turn it into a huge stand off with him (I was a teacher, there are many times you 'don't notice' things that are technically against the rules).

That. I'd probably agree with him that it's a stupid rule but by not attending the first detention, he's now got another one and the consequences for missing that are even worse so he may as well suck it up and do the detention.

He's skipped a detention now though and they'll escalate until he goes along with it.

Did he really get a detention for one untucked shirt?
Or had he been asked and refused/wilfully ignored once and then given the detention?

The way to disagree with the policy isn't by not turning up to a detention. He now has further consequences for his defiance.

So dopey parent won't buy clothes that fit and weak SLT undermine the teacher by not backing the teacher.

Sounds about standard.

Then they are twats, but there you go.

Was he told to tuck his shirt in and refused?

I'm not a shit, lax parent btw as the odd poster is insinuating. I'm supportive of school and of teachers and yep, he's a twit. And of course it's a fashion thing .. I used to roll my skirt up to my waist back in the 1920s when I was at school!

I'm going to tell him to attend and then leave the consequences of non attendance up to him

As he's almost 16, it's time to start leaving him to figure out for himself what is worth being 'defiant' about

And - to reiterate - I DO think he should tuck his shirt in. I'm a broken record every single morning.

But he's not 10 and he has to learn himself.

It's a power thing for these teachers, it's pathetic

Oh gosh 'power trips'. It's like unsupportive parent bingo on here.

I couldn't give a fuck about power. I just expect your kids to follow the rules.

Perhaps it might be sensible to not escalate an untucked shirt into a detention. So seems a bit of a power trip to me.

Which lessons has he got Friday afternoon? To be honest the main difference between going tomorrow and Friday is that he is missing lessons on Friday. Much younger ds found that the penalty at primary for not doing homework was having to do it during PE. He hated PE so saw it as a win win. I would be checking that he isn't deliberately skipping another lesson on Friday.

I tell my dc that detention is a motivation to work hard so that they can choose a job that doesn't require strict uniform standards if they don't want to wear a uniform.

What do you think schools can do? The "tuck your shirt in" rule has been ignored.
Then the "go to detention" rule has been ignored.
Schools shouldn't just drop it because you deem it to have gone too far. The student could have avoided it by tucking their shirt in.

I'd wager a bet it wasn't the first time they had been asked.

Whether I agree with the rules or not, the response of your DS is not the way to get it changed or modified. Your response and what you are going to say I agree with.

Just wish that the headteachers at Eton had been similarly strict in the late 70s and early 80s.

We all have to follow rules, and yes, some of them are stupid, but what makes your son think he’s more special and different, from every one else, who follow the rules, that he thinks this shirt rule doesn’t apply to him? You see this attitude carried into adulthood. Those idiot parents who park on the yellow zig zag lines at the school gates, to
drop off their kids. Why? Because they think the rules don’t apply to them. Those stupid people who throw rubbish on the floor, and not in the bin. Why? Because the rules don’t apply to them. The people that fly tip. Again, why? Because “they are silly rules”. And there a million more examples of this entitled behaviour.

If we didn’t have rules society would collapse and it starts with the small things.

The situation has already escalated when the pupil is defiant and refusing to do as asked.

Absolutely wouldn't make him go. I think these uniform rules are ridiculous.

Yes, some school rules are stupid.
Yes, he should do the detention
No, his defiance doesn't make him some kind of hero for sticking it to the man as some posters seem to think.
It just makes him one of those disruptive kids.
He may be 16 and you may want him to realise for himself, but school will be contacting you about his behaviour next so you might as well decide what you're going to tell them.

If you have a thousand kids, in say a large secondary comprehensive school, and they all stopped adhering to the rules, and did what they wanted, when they wanted, what do you think would happen? There would be no education because there would be anarchy because no one was respecting these “silly rules”, and because, you know, the teachers are “power hungry!”.

I feel so sorry for teachers these days. They just want to teach yet have the deal with this kind of nonsense.