Horrible argument over school work. Would you back right off now?

[LemonDropss]

My DS is in year 11, he's 16 in December.

Our relationship is good and we are close. He's generally speaking a good lad

But the flashpoint is homework. He won't do it. Just won't. And when he does, it's slapdash and rubbish but I'd say, 70% of the time, he doesn't turn it in so his mocks saw a clutch of 2s and 3s.

He says all the right things, and he's had all the tools to do homework. He's very lucky, has his own study, I've offered to pay for a maths tutor, I've spoken with his teachers, we've put plans together etc etc

Anyway, today he has maths. Was set 6 days ago and due in tomorrow . I told him to do it before any gaming and well... this is where it went wrong. He point blank refused, said he'd do it at 8pm, I said 'no, you need to do it before any gaming and before 8pm or it won't get done'

He then called me 'a bit thick,' 'not listening to a word he says' 'a useless mum'

Yes I know not beyond the realms of normality for a teenager but it was really horrible tbh. I shouted back at him to just stop now, he told me to grow up and ugh ..

I have tried everything I can to help with his schoolwork. He is just .. lazy. The mocks were not the wake up call I expected them to be.

This is our only flashpoint and yes, I should have taken this back a few steps and just let him get on with it. Or not, as the case would be

So.. onto my question. Would you just stop now? Not say another word about doing homework? Let him fail? Let him now fully grasp that his (non) actions have consequences?

It's upset me tonight because we don't have this usually - it's happened because I put my foot down and insisted and he was really rude and well.. still hasn't done it

That's very interesting.

It's almost like he knows he can't engage and would rather blame himself than seek help. But if he's saying he's lazy he knows his behaviour is below par. But doesn't actually know how to change it?

Adhd would be a good call with his presentation.

@Chevyimpala67 thanks.

He has a dad. One who has spent hours doing planners and chats and all sorts with him.

It's all just exhausting tbh

What about using a study coach? My dd’s school uses Elevate. They do 12 week courses on things like study skills. I’m presuming you can pay for these even if your ds’s school doesn’t use them. www.elevatecoach.co.uk/studyskills

If not, the school may use another company and other resources out there.

@Mummyoflittledragon he won't do it. Have suggested it several times along with a weekly maths tutor .

No thanks, he says!

So this is what I'm up against

You sound an amazing mum and your DS clearly loves and appreciates you (on the whole).

But maybe you have to bite the bullet and not be 'Mrs Nice Guy'. We don't allow gaming school nights Monday-Thursdays term time (Y7 and Y11). They kick up a stink but then get used to the routine fairly quickly. They get in from school, snack and some phone time but then we do expect them to do their HW after that. Definitely no gaming before HW is done!

Or if they don't do their homework, perhaps you should expect them to do an awful a lot around the house? We see school and homework like 'work for kids' as adults go out to work and earn the dosh.

It's not easy, kids may call you names but they need boundaries, not a best friend sometimes. But you may need to also check your DS and how he feels about his ability. Is this a masking behaviour because he's not able to work at the levels expected?

I think it would be another leading a horse to water but not being able to make them drink scenario. He sounds like he doesn't have the maturity to grasp why he needs to be organised. Unfortunately he's going to have to learn that the hard way.

I think you need to discuss with him the plan for what happens if he fails gcses (so that he can make an informed decision about whether he wants to study or not). Decide whether he will be able to live at home and for how long and also how much rent/living/energy costs you will charge him. Will he have to pay for his own phone bill? Then have a look with him at jobs boards - what would he like to do? Calculate the weekly pay, deduct NI and tax and his rent, then show him how much he would have to live on.

have a look for other jobs - that might be more interesting, but require gcses, btecs or some other qualification. Show him how much this would give him per week.

I wonder if the calling you ‘a bit thick’ and useless is actually him projecting how he feels about himself? Maybe he’s heard this from peers or a teacher or someone? If his sister has done well, maybe he feels he can’t measure up? Just putting it out there! But ultimately, I think you’re doing all you can and I’m not sure it’s worth falling out with him as long as he fully understands the consequences of bad grades.

These next few weeks you will be starting to look around colleges etc and thinking about next steps. Perhaps when he feels he has something to aim for he will focus. However clever he might be, he might just not be cut out for studying hard, exams etc. He might suit a practical course, such as construction, mechanics etc.
Is anything bothering him? Could cannabis be influencing him? I ask because a nephew went through similar, undiagnosed ADHD, and anxiety self medicated with cannabis. It was a dangerous combination.

Yes, it is.
So time to back off I think.
I think you are right to suspect adhd but if he won't engage with the path to dx then no point going down that route.
Sadly, some kids from lovely supportive homes/backgrounds can have a VERY protracted adolescence ime :(

@Retrievemysanity interesting points, thanks. No, definitely isn't in his sisters shadow - and she isn't what I'd call academic as such. She got ok GCSEs, ok A levels and a 2.1 degree. All very good and I'm very proud of her. She then joined the police and had made sergeant within 3 years - so she's doing so well

However I have never once made a comparison. They're very different animals and they're treated as such. All his achievements (and believe me, I look for them) are celebrated and I often tell him I'm proud of him when he says something insightful or he behaves in a mature fashion or whatever really .

You may not believe this but there is still time.

I think some one said upthread that boys don't tend to pull their finger out until quite late in the run up to GCSEs.

My son was one of those but slightly different in that he was home educated due to additional needs. I had a conversation with him in January before the summer exams, similar to the one you mention, in which I said i wasn't going to ask him to work any more it was on him. Any way he pulled his finger out in the final few weeks and, luckily for him, it was enough to continue to what he wants to do for A - Level.

I'm continuing the 'hands - off' approach for A Levels. They've got to want it for themselves.

It's not easy though, by any means and it's certainly not worth losing an overall good relationship over.

Some boys are just incredibly lazy - they don’t have to have ADHD, addiction, low self esteem. They just don’t like working, and they do like watching footie, gaming and chatting to their mates. So that’s what they do. There are 100s if not 1000s of boys like that. It’s why more women go to uni now. And why so many women have lazy arse low achieving husbands.

I’m sure DS won’t be like that. He just needs a taste of the real world outside mum’s lovely bubble before he either a. Starts working hard at a trade or b. Gets his arse in gear - retakes, access courses etc for a degree.

@PutinIsAWarCriminal well not unless he's been taking it since about year 2

No, he isn't taking drugs, I'm as sure as I can be about this. This isn't a weed issue

You say you've 'tried everything' over the years but everything you listed is a reward, not a punishment.

Does he actually get sanctions if he behaves badly?

I don't see how turning off the wifi is 'inflammatory' in the slightest. It seems like you're just fearful of hitting him where it hurts, really.

I would ask his teachers to assess whether they think he should be assessed for ADHD. Not doing homework is a strong trait.

@StaunchMomma oh I can turn off the Wi-Fi. He'd use 4g.

The thing is, he does not behave badly. This is a once in a .. god knows - a year? Two years? thing

I was cross, I ranted at him, he came back at me and we both then raised our voices. I can't really remember when this last happened

So I've not had to bring out any punishments. It's hard to punish for years of school work apathy

@ittakes2 yes, the SEN lead at the school - also a subject teacher - agrees he has some of the traits

DS won't have a bit of this though! Would not engage with an assessment

I think some one said upthread that boys don't tend to pull their finger out until quite late in the run up to GCSEs.

This is both lazy stereotyping and often true. I battle with myself every year not to fall in to the trap and to demand the same high standards from all students. And every year (so far) it is girls who fall in line with expectations before the boys (on average - there are also plenty of hard working boys and lazy girls which is why I battle on).

He went out earlier. Very unusual for him on a school night. Went out without a word to leave - again, never happened before

I messaged him and just said ' whereabouts are you? home before 9pm please as you have school' and he just put back ' I'm out with friends'

Anyway - he came in just before 9pm and I can hear him in his study now, unzipping a pencil case and tapping on a calculator ....

I'm not ready to talk with him and clearly likewise.

But blimey ... we've had all this upset and he's sat down and is doing .. something. How easy would it be to just have .. you know, done it!

I'm a university lecturer and was just like your son. Possible ADHD, maybe just lazy. I can't be arsed to investigate it. I scraped A-levels after failing mocks, failed first year which gave me a kick up the arse, got degree, did slacker job, back to uni, distinction and all that. 25 years later I'm on here now because I can't be fucked to work on the research paper I should be doing tonight.

Let him fail, it worked for me. Some people are just like that and I wouldn't ruin your relationship or make him feel shit over it. He knows.

is this because he doesn’t like his home and school life merging? Would it help if he could do all his homework at school? Maybe stay behind every night for an hour in the library? If there is such a thing…

But blimey ... we've had all this upset and he's sat down and is doing .. something. How easy would it be to just have .. you know, done it!

But then you'd have been right. And never in the history of all time has mum (or miss) been right 🤷‍♀️

Snap! He's at CAMHS waiting for a diagnosis now. He's also been diagnosed with dyslexia, but for focus only. That's improved his confidence enormously.

DS2 is 16 in Nov, but here in Scotland he already sat GCSE equivalents in 2022, and he did very well. I needed to get really involved (I was totally hands off with DS1- a different ballgame all together): weekly planner sheets on the wall; writing a study plan that was insanely detailed into 15 minute slots; planning sports sessions around the timetable; asking every day about homework; assessment calendar; keeping in touch with pastoral care teacher; making sure he attended all supported study nights/ Easter camp. The penny dropped that he wouldn't be allowed to not engage.

However, he did have the example of an older brother who was studying at the same time (A levels) and a best mate who was super engaged. Different strokes- I hope it works put OP.

Does he actually need to do his homework to pass his GCSEs? I never did any homework except for coursework that counted to the final grade...I ignored my parents and teachers, took the detentions I was given and continued to refuse to do any

I passed my GCSEs, A-Levels and degree, I'm just super lazy and super stubborn and didn't want to do it. I am almost certainly neurodiverse (although undiagnosed) and I just couldn't be arsed, I'm still the same in a non-work environment tbh