Does this behaviour need counselling?

[HeadFairy]

Hi, DS is 14, almost 15. He's at a very rigorously academic school, one of the top state schools in the country, but he's getting into quite a lot of trouble. I've just had another meeting with his head of year, and they say while he's fine in the classroom, his behaviour outside of the classroom is causing concern and has led to one suspension already.

He's always been what I would call a show off with his mates, playing everything for laughs. In primary school he was the same, also getting into trouble for doing stupid things. One incident got him suspended at primary school too, and involved social services. He just does stupid things without thinking because his friends egg him on.

Now he's older, he's quite aggressive with his friends, when playing football at break times he's always getting into fights, squaring up to other boys and generally being a PITA, but my family say if he doesn't learn how to handle his aggression and dial things down he's going to end up getting into serious trouble, or seriously hurt.

I thought all of this was pretty par for the course for 14 year old boys, he's clever, good looking, tall and sporty and cocky af, but my mum is worried he needs some kind of therapy, CBT etc to learn how to de-escalate situations.

His grades at school are good, he does hardly any work and is a straight A student. He says there's no bullying or similar woes. He's always been pretty 'alpha' but I do agree he needs to become a little less 'in your face'.

Sorry for the long post, just really would appreciate some thoughts.

I don't see how counselling will help if he doesn't think there is an issue. You sound like you play down his behaviour as being "typical' or alpha. It actually sounds like a big problem. You need to start putting in more consequences for this nasty behaviour.

I wouldn’t say it was typical for 14 year old boys, no. I have a 14 year old boy.

Brains, looks, grades aside- if he doesn’t learn to control his temper the only place he will be going is prison. Either that or he will pick on the wrong kid. You’re too accepting of his behaviour- he sounds like a bully, I would be really concerned.

Doesn't need therapy.

You're too accepting of his behaviour and making excuses. You're not being hard enough on him by the sounds of it, bullying actions need consequences not excuses.

I wouldn’t say it was typical for 14 year old boys, no.
This. It's good that you are aware but your mum seems to be even more aware and less blind to his faults. Your ds needs to learn self control, plain and simple. That will only happen if his is enforced at home and not excused with minimising comments such as 'he's quite alpha'. It sounds like he's aggressive and prone to violence. What will you and his father do to teach him self control?

Sometime being involved in a very rigorous extra curricular activity can help. If you don't tackle this, your handsome boy may end up being big trouble.

Have you ever taught him to consider other people's feelings?

He sounds as though he lacks empathy and I can't see anything from your post or what you say about your family that demonstrates any concern over the impact of his behaviour on others.

You worry he might get hurt. Don't you ever worry he might hurt someone else if he's constantly squaring up for fights.

'Alpha' is going a lot of heavy lifting in your shoes post, he sounds feral. Time for you to step up and parent him.

He doesn't sound like he needs therapy, he sounds like he needs a metaphorical boot up his arse to knock him down a peg or two.

Your post has the underlying tone of "boys will be boys" but unfortunately boys like this grow up to be the sort of nasty, aggressive men you don't want dating your daughter.

He doesn't need therapy, he needs discipline.

I'm curious about his father. Supposing you live together, how is dad's behaviour? Do you have more DC?

The way you talk about this all sounds as if one some level you might be accepting or even encouraging it- for example, the stuff about him being good-looking etc- what has that got to do with anything? As if being clever and good-looking means he’s allowed to be an arsehole. We’ve all met men who grew up like this. Also blaming his friends for “egging him on” rather than blaming him.

l’d suggest spending some time really thinking about whether there’s anything in that and perhaps trying to see that setting him up to think he’s special is doing him no favours. Then try to reset a bit, proper consequences when required, no more minimising, try to see how his behaviour must feel to those on the wrong end of it.

Is his dad around? Do you have a partner?

Sorry but you sound like you worship him! Your son's lack of social skills and humility mean his brains in the classroom will mean nothing when he ends up 9n prison.

You need to look at him without the rose coloured glasses and treat him like a normal teenager. Tell him he's being a that, there will be a big argument but it's exactly what he needs.

Maybe you son needs a big physical challenge too, get him involved in a challenge that will humble him.

Going back to when I met my now husband at age 13, he and none of his friends were like this.
If I met your son at that age I would have thought he was a bully and would have been scared of him. I had 20 boys in my primary school class and not one of them were suspended. A few got into trouble being silly etc but nothing like you've describe.
There's massive problems going on here and it sounds as though you've just let him get away with it. Have you disciplined him?

Aggressive behaviour and not knowing how to handle situations is anything but Alpha behaviour.

I’d have said anger managent and a kick up the arse, before the courts do it for him.

He’s got a big problem for sure - he lacks humility and social skills. Oh I’m
sure he can be a charmer when it suits him - but that’s not going to keep him out of trouble.
He needs discipline and to learn that other people are just as important (and sometimes more important) than him.

Counselling may possibly help in terms of finding out why he wants all this attention. But as a family you all have to step up now to sort this out. Your mum is right, he’s heading for very serious trouble.

Not typical at all in my experience of having two teen boys. It sounds like as you’ve never found it an issue and have always down played it so it may be that you haven’t parented appropriately for the behaviour over the years. If your son is t unhappy with who he is and you think this is normal I’m not sure how counselling will help.

sounds like you need to try to tackle the behaviour with parenting techniques first

I thought all of this was pretty par for the course for 14 year old boys,

So has he had any punishment? Consequences for his actions?

I would probably be looking there before counselling, although it might be a little too late.

By the way I have a nearly 14 year old ds, he’s nothing like that.
There are about 3 boys in his year that behave like your ds, they are a massive pita to everyone. Ds and most of the year group can’t bear them because they cause so much shit.

It might not be this at all, but I was wondering if you have ever had him assessed for ADHD? If he's clever it may be masked in the classroom but then it all comes out when he's relaxing. Being easily led and doing things without thinking could be indicators, as well as the lack of self-regulation of his aggression.

I agree with someone up thread who expressed concern that he seemed to lack empathy for those around him. Empathy development is a developmental stage as well as being down to personality traits. I would read up on this and see if there is things you can work on with him.

Thanks for your replies... I think I probably do need a wake up call like this. He's not as bad as he sounds, but then I'm his mother so of course I would say that! His dad is around, we have had lots of talks, he's been grounded a few times, but I do feel we need to go further. By far the largest amount of his disciplinary points at school are for not handing homework in, I work full time doing shifts, dh also does long days, we usually get home around 8.

I think deep down I know you're all right, he needs to learn empathy, he helps out at cubs and all the leaders say he's lovely with the younger ones, so he's definitely capable of it, he was lovely and kind towards my dad when he was really ill with cancer, helping him to walk and really patient and kind. I think what I need help with is getting him to be more like that in other areas of his life. I don't want him to be a bully, it certainly hasn't come from either of us. I have no idea how to teach him to be kinder in all areas of his life. Until my meeting with the school I wasn't even aware he'd been in so much trouble, they hadn't told me anything until now.

Listen to what your family and the school are telling you. This behaviour is not normal for 14 year olds. There’s larking about, and there’s bad behaviour.

Does he do any hobbies out of school? Maybe redirect this energy - get him into team sports. Basketball seems to appeal to energetic teens or maybe a Marshall art.

Also, if he’s fighting and squaring up, he’s bullying others. Have you reprimanded him for this behaviour?

@Rabblemum hits the nail on the head when she said it sounds like you worship him. You’re rightly proud of his academic success, but are too accepting of his other behaviour.

I agree. Discipline rather than counselling. You are minimising this hugely,this isn't normal behavior at all.

That sounds positive and it shows he is capable of empathy. Really then it becomes about building on that. Someone upthread mentioned ADHD I think that is also worth considering.

It sounds really tough, but it also reads like you're sort of brushing this off as 'boys will be boys' and 'cocky' behaviour

Even going back to primary school He just does stupid things without thinking because his friends egg him on
Stupid things don't get you suspended and it's not because his friends egg'd him on.

I agree with others on ability to put himself in others shoes. I think you need to get on top of this now before he's 18 and starts on the wrong person and finds himself either in hospital or in prison.

I won't go into detail about what happened in primary school, but they were larking about and one of his classmates suggested he did something which ds did without stopping to think. That's what caused him to be suspended. He was 8 at the time and didn't have a clue what he'd done was so serious. Obviously we had a lot of talks at the time, he saw the school SEN teacher for some emotional literacy counselling.

No one has ever mentioned ADHD, my sister and her daughter have recently been diagnosed, and I suspect my mum also has traits that would be recognised as ADHD, however I'm not sure about da. He can focus on things, he can follow tasks through without being distracted. I appreciate that's a fairly simplistic interpretation of ADHD, my friend's son has recently been diagnosed too, and he has much more social anxiety and agonises over choices on absolutely everything. Dh is convinced ds plays the fool as a way of attention seeking and because he feels insecure and wants everyone to like him. We've told him his full on in your face behaviour is unlikely to do that. The school are going to get his gang of friends together at the beginning of next term, to talk about supporting each other more, they do all kind of feed off each other and their group gets into trouble quite a bit. The latest incident involved one boy throwing a grape at ds at lunch so ds threw one back at him, but it missed and hit the teacher.

He can be the most intelligent person in the world but if he doesn't get his social skills sorted out he's going to land on his arse in the adult world. And possibly in prison.