Does this behaviour need counselling?

[HeadFairy]

Hi, DS is 14, almost 15. He's at a very rigorously academic school, one of the top state schools in the country, but he's getting into quite a lot of trouble. I've just had another meeting with his head of year, and they say while he's fine in the classroom, his behaviour outside of the classroom is causing concern and has led to one suspension already.

He's always been what I would call a show off with his mates, playing everything for laughs. In primary school he was the same, also getting into trouble for doing stupid things. One incident got him suspended at primary school too, and involved social services. He just does stupid things without thinking because his friends egg him on.

Now he's older, he's quite aggressive with his friends, when playing football at break times he's always getting into fights, squaring up to other boys and generally being a PITA, but my family say if he doesn't learn how to handle his aggression and dial things down he's going to end up getting into serious trouble, or seriously hurt.

I thought all of this was pretty par for the course for 14 year old boys, he's clever, good looking, tall and sporty and cocky af, but my mum is worried he needs some kind of therapy, CBT etc to learn how to de-escalate situations.

His grades at school are good, he does hardly any work and is a straight A student. He says there's no bullying or similar woes. He's always been pretty 'alpha' but I do agree he needs to become a little less 'in your face'.

Sorry for the long post, just really would appreciate some thoughts.

If you both work long hours and get home at 8pm, is there a possibility it's attention seeking behaviour and unconsciously he's feeling neglected by you? Kids often see things in a black and white way and maybe your work and career seem to him to be more important to you than he does?? Particularly if this has been going on for a long time....why bother working hard at school if it's not rewarding? Isn't it better to do stuff that someone actually pays attention to and gains a reward (of attention)? I maybe completely wrong but worth considering....

I appreciate you said it’s hurtful that people say your son is horrible. However, in you original post, you said he gets into fights and squares up to people. That’s intimidating if you are on the receiving end of it. Your family have also described him as aggressive. No wonder people are concluding he’s not an Angel.

Over the years when I’ve heard stories like this the one thing that’s worked is the parents changing work to be there from when kid gets in from school. Sometimes it’s phone issues and after school dramas developing from boredom/lack of supervision that then become entrenched. It’s a peak age for emotional development and where is that coming from if parents aren’t around? It’s a tough one I know. One friend had to leave her job and has now gone back about 2 years later but it did work. Doesn’t have to be the female parent of course.

I really can't leave my job, it's too much of a competitive industry and I won't get back in to something I've spent 30 years building. I know some might think that's selfish, but keeping a roof over our heads is pretty up there on my list of priorities too.

I don't think people are piling on at all- they're mainly trying to give helpful suggestions based on what you've said and part of that is (from your posts) it feels rather as if you think his behaviour is ok because he's influenced by others or because he's clever and good-looking. Clearly you don't think it's ok or you wouldn't be posting, but sometimes it's helpful to see things as other people see them. Good luck with it all.

Discipline not therapy.

How does he treat his younger sister when they are alone together for long hours after school, do you know?

Completely understand you needing to keep your job and there are always many other options.

Could you maybe get some books/web sites on development at this age and the best way to communicate to teens and try a few suggestions that fit for your situation and assess if things improve.

Don’t worry about the comments too much here it is absolutely okay to be on your son’s side, as his mother that is your job.

He is a teen, he has plenty of time to grow and develop, you have already seen some of the positive fundamentals in previous behaviour. The problem with dominance type behaviour in any person who adapts towards it is that it can be very effective in getting your needs met, so it can be very hard creating the intrinsic motivation necessary for change so the sooner you get started with him the better the results are likely to be. Best of luck.

I've not read all the replies. How is he with his younger sister?

No, that is not typical behaviour for 14 yr old boys.

The school could deploy different methods. If he behaves badly at break times, then he spends every break time sitting on a chair outside the head teachers office. Or
He gets a daily report card from school, sent home to you. If he has misbehaved, there will be consequences at home. No screens/grounded/etc.

They mostly ignore each other, with periods when they're lovely together. We had a bbq for dinner last night and they played on the trampoline together for an hour afterwards. They fight too of course, they're teenagers and siblings.

@Eatingchips thank you. I have done some reading around and I am going to make some changes around conversations we have. Dh had a pretty grim childhood and a horribly abusive father so he's really on a steep learning curve on parenting teenage boys too, as he didn't really have any proper parenting himself.

That all sounds very positive.

Could it be your partner? I don’t see why it’s the women that have to step up? Or a grandparent?

school can only do so much. Not a pile on I promise - just sharing what I’ve seen and heard from friends. You don’t want him expelled or whatever and it does happen even to the most middle class kids

OP no one suggested you give up working, but could either you or your partner rearrange your working schedule to be around after school for your ds?

DH had a pretty grim childhood and a horribly abusive father so he's really on a steep learning curve on parenting teenage boys too, as he didn't really have any proper parenting himself.

What is your DH doing to support his own learning? Has he been on any parenting courses? And is he good at de-escalation, can he help your DS learn or does he need to improve his own skills?

And as pp have said, just being there is a critical part of parenting when things aren't going well, your DS is heading off the rails so that probably means stepping up and not just you, your DH has a big role to play.

Sounds like dad stepping up at least working from home more often if pos could be positive for both of them - show that men can be at home, do ‘non alpha’ stuff

He's not as bad as he sounds - but you were the person who described him! - who made him sound as he is.

I don't want to worry you, but he will discover alcohol and going drinking with his mates in the not-too-distant future and he really will have to have learned how to control his aggression by then.

I his school misdemeanours were solely about not handing in homework or throwing a grape, then there would be nothing to worry about; but getting into fights adds a different more worrying dimension. It sounds as though he mucks about to get attention and then finds himself in deeper than he might have intended; also, if he gets his attention from behaving badly it becomes expected of him and is hard for him to drop. Others will goad him into it.

Maybe you and OH need to establish a set sanction when he is in trouble for aggression - something that happens EVERY TIME. But let the school deal with other misdemeanours.

I can understand your worry.

OP, ASC and ADHD are NOT mental health issues, they are neurodiverse conditions.

Indeed, and they wont let you and DH out from dealing with DS either! If anything you and DH will have to work harder and find professional advice so that you are using the right strategies because if hasADHD or ASC then you'll need to adapt "ordinary" parenting strategies or they wont be effective.

Being easily led isn't unusual. Some girls & boys like to show off, get peer attention.

My DSs fit with a similar profile in several ways.
Same kids get glowing comments about being polite, mature, helpful, reliable, kind...