Teen ignoring boundaries/rules/consequences

[borrymum]

What do you do when your 16 year old refuses to follow any house rules? Then they ignore consequences. I have kept boundaries in place and keep enforcing basic rules such as curfews, not being on their phone all night, keeping up with school work and they ignore it all. Tried to take the phone away twice (in the space of 6 months in utter desperation) and he ran away both times, switched off the broadband and he tried to smash the house up. He is aggressive, argumentative and does not communicate with us. He is failing at school as well. We have no one to help and no where for him to go so we can get some peace for a while, it's making us ill.

Sounds awful.

is he just 16 or closer to 17?

At some point, I think it's important to increasingly recognise that you can't just tell them what to do. If you try, you run risk of creating these horrible conflicts. You have to persuade them to agree to the boundaries and rules you want because they want security, to be considerate of others, and these boundaries help them achieve their goals. You want to remind them of their aspirations & get them to agree about what are the better choices they could make. They need good self-esteem to make the best choices -- it's hard for teens to have good self-esteem.

When he goes out, where does he go, what's he up to, who is he spending time with?

Sadly, nothing. I reached out for support several times to the school, the gp, CAMHS when my DS was at his worst between 14 and 16 and nobody wanted to know.

You'll just have to ride it out. I made it clear though that if he ever actually hit me, he'd be out. I've put up with horrendous verbal abuse and being grabbed, held and shaken on a few occasions for reasons such as taking phones away, but my rule was if he hits me he's out.

FWIW he improved a lot from 17 onwards, although at 18 /19, he still has his tantrums from time to time.🙄

Sending you hugs... 💐

Sending you hugs too.

I have all this to come! Mine is only 7 but thanks to YouTube is already becoming an argumentative obsessed teen. Thanks YouTube! I try to put restrictions in place and he loses time on there whenever he plays up. So far it's working and the other evening he even came to me with the phone and gave it to me and said his time off the phone starts now! I nearly fainted! I only wish this lasts but reality says different.

Sending hugs to get you through op.

Mine is exactly the same. I've had to choose and pick my battles. I will ask him nicely and remind him he needs to be up so would say "Can you finish with your phone in a bit as you have x in the morning and you will be tired". It's like having a toddler you have to give a reason for your request.

Any aggression and they would be out. No way would i be accepting that kind of behaviour and disrespect

Phones and YouTube are the scourge of the planet!!

The thing is, Romdowa, that's easier said than done. Once a teenager enters the care system, it significantly reduces their life chances and opportunities. That's a huge step that will have lifelong implications for both parent and teenager. Also a lot of the behaviour can be due to ASD and mental health conditions, which again families are being left to cope with, without any help or support from the professionals. There is no money or support for anything but the very worst situations in child and adolescent mental health and that's the stark reality.

You probably need to examine your boundaries and rules. These sort of explosive conflicts do nobody any good. So, you take his phone away - he feels he has nothing to lose - bad consequences all round.

I'd cave in over the phone. He wants it overnight? Let him. Shift the boundary to something like ' ok, you're getting older so you can self regulate with your phone. However you need to set your alarm for school and ensure you're up and ready for xyz time.' .... so you basically allow one thing he wants but reinforce elsewhere.

Curfews. Where is he going? Hanging round getting up to no good? You can't relax it. With friends at their houses or doing something specific? You can relax it.

So it's about having a rethink at this age and giving in some areas and holding firm in others

I agree with lljkk.

You've got to transition from telling them what to do to giving them advice/encouraging them to do the right thing, but ultimately letting them make their own mistakes.

Lots of talk about next steps and the future and what he needs to do to get there, but ultimately let him make his own choices.

I wouldn't be letting a 7 year old spend any time on YouTube if it was negatively impacting their behaviour. At 7 you have full control over what they do.

Thank you everyone, I went out for a walk with Dd to try to get a bit of perspective. He isn't really up to no good outside of the house, he just seems to really want to hurt us and thankfully is not bad to other people. I am keeping very calm and explaining what the rules are for and what the consequences for his future will be if he continues to ignore them. The main problem we have is that when he is tired it is all a lot worse, hence trying to get him to sleep at night. I think that you are right that we have to pick the battles and I'm trying not to get pulled into the drama. It's so easy to say that if they are violent they are out, but where on earth do they go? No one would want to know as there are kids with such tougher lives than him that need to be supported by professionals. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the hugs and support. I was worried everyone would say that I was a crap parent

Forgot to say, he is 17 in two weeks time

Speaking as a mum of a similar sounding Ds who is now 18. We had smashed up doors, holes in walls, missing school and all sorts. It's bloody hard. But in the end what worked in our house was backing off. Picking battles. However hard I pushed for less screen time, earlier bedtimes, more schoolwork he pushed back just as hard. Achieved nothing but a load of grief. He's now left school and doing an apprenticeship and he's like a different person. He was done with school. But he loves working. And the college work involved. He's happy. I'm happy. And the house is so peaceful. You can't force him to live differently. Just love him. Bear in mind it's been such a couple of really hard years.

I think the message I'm getting is that we have to find a better way to live with it. I will try as we can't go on like this. It's hard to have hope but it sounds like they do get through it in the end. Everyone I know seems to have such easy kids and how ever hard I try not to compare them I end up doing just that. Thanks for sharing all your experiences

@borrymum
My 16yo dd (youngest of 5: all others no significant issues) has been through similar behaviours.

After a significant escalation (which I hope you don't t experience) we were assigned an intervention officer who has been amazing but primarily just linked us with people who could help us. We did a course called 'Time Out for Parents' through an organisation called Care for the Family. I can't recommend it enough. It is a Christian initiative but I only know that from pulling out the booklet today: there was no bias. It gave sensible advice but just skewed things a little to make it easier to see the situations from a teens perspective.
My DDs behaviour isn't perfect but she's calmed down a lot and her relationship with the rest of the family has improved immeasurably. We got our daughter back.

Please seek it out if you can op. It was life changing for us!

BorryMum, definite stop comparing and beating yourself up. Those families who are keen to present themselves as perfect to the world and social media will have their own issues and problems. If it helps, stop following without unfriending on social media. The last thing you need when you're feeling upset or embarrassed about your DS is someone boasting about how perfect their teenager is.

My boys are similar age (16 and 18) and I agree with posters who say parenting is different at that age

They have no limit on phone use/gaming. They sometimes game half the night snd are dead-tired the next day. They did not revise as much as they could have for exams.

However, I have no illusion I can control their behaviour through punishment. I talk to them as adults, even if they are being childish. I try to always keep lines of communication open

I think taking phone away just escalates things, why did you feel it was necessary? It’s the holidays, what would happen if he was on his phone all night?

I would definitely tell him you were upset with the aggressive attitude, not saying to let everything slide, but could you talk to him? Does he talk?

@BorryMum easy kids are a rare thing don’t believe everything you see

What are the rules in your house?

Have they evolved with age?

How long has this deterioration in behaviour been going on?

Is he stressed waiting for GCSE results? Is he worried about going to a new college?

Personally I don’t think that you should be trying to get an almost 17 year old man to bed to sleep.

I don’t think taking phones away is appropriate either as social connection with friends is critical.

You can however cut money, lifts, any chores that you may do for him (meals etc) as consequences for disrespectful behaviours.

Don’t escalate with shouting etc.

Is his Dad about? What’s his contribution?

Is there anything else going on in the home / school etc?

I think all of our kids have really been impacted during Covid at critical development stages / rites of passage that won’t happen for them.

If he is being prevented from going out / staying out with friends in that summer holidays after 18 months of lockdowns then I think that’s harsh.

Let him manage his own time, money, sleep, eating, social life etc - which of your house rules are essential?

I will try and answer everything. He has just completed year 12 and failed every mock. He has to pass exams (second chance) in September or he is out. The rules are that he switches off phone and lights at 11 week nights as he disturbs the rest of us. We have set the broadband to go off at 11:30 (big mistake, causes world war 3 but I don't know how to back track without giving in) I ask him to keep his room relatively tidy and prepare for his September tests. He hasn't done any of it. That's about it along with emptying the bin and dishwasher which he shares with his siblings. He can go out till 10:30
On week nights and later at weekends as long as we have an idea of who he is and where he is. He has a part time job so money is not an issue. My Dh (his dad) can't take part in discipline as he goads him and tries to fight him. He keeps his distance and the burden falls on me. They don't communicate at all apart from Ds calling him names and my Dh doesn't want to lose his temper with him while being provoked. He doesn't care about the future and just says he is living in the moment.

Dh had a breakdown last year and his mental health is fragile. Ds knows this and plays on it, no empathy at all.

@ODFOx thank you for the suggestion I will definitely look it up.

I agree that taking the phone was a big mistake, I was just so frustrated with him that I took it and he wrestled it back and ran away. We talked after and I said I wouldn't do it again but that he must self regulate, but he can't or won't

Why is your DH worried about losing his temper - is he usually emotionally volatile?

Seems that your DS is facing a massive cliff edge academically and socially (if he has to leave college) and this is causing huge stress - but he is not facing that responsibility just distracting himself by resisting and fighting you.

I would back right off, take the pressure off and let him have what he wants right now - and in doing so he has no excuse for conflict with you and the path is clear for him to make his own choices over the next coupe of months with exams.

Unless he is sharing a room I don’t see how lights off and WiFi down is disturbing others (unless he is gaming with sounds and vocals) - I would give him this slack.

I wouldn’t have a curfew in the summer holidays at this age with the only caveat that he is quiet and respectful when he comes home. I suspect if you remove all of these rules he will self regulate and find a rhythm which gives him head space to address his studies. Don’t give him the opportunity to fight you - take the pressure off and the power away - drop the rope.

How comfortable are you with accepting that he will likely fail in September and be asked to leave. Can you have confidence that he will find another route or his way back to academics in his own time - might be a couple of years. Depends what his peer group are doing - they don’t want to get left behind.

Seems that there is a lot of tension in your home. A seething Dad, the burden on you to single handedly enforce (inappropriate?) discipline and rules on a virtually grown man - who is under huge stress and about to fail, has a dysfunctional / disrespectful relationship with his parents etc.

Take the temperature down for all of you. Have some compassion for yourself what you are trying to do and what he is going through / facing - it’s all overwhelming. Trust that taking the pressure off him will allow him to see straight in time.

I have been through this with my oldest. I got it “wrong” initially - caused conflict - backed off - and it all worked out in time.

Need to switch gears.