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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Son and very right wing racist views

247 replies

Strawberry33 · 07/01/2021 22:40

My son 14 has been extremely influenced during the past year by stuff in the media that he now calls lefty propaganda and some unfortunate experiences. He now has decided to completely shun our families values and wants to become a right wing politician. He’s very bright but been debating with teachers and pupils today in his online learning and I’m worried he’s going to be punished and silenced which seems to only feed into his views.
Just to add he’s not at all violent, aggressive or nasty towards people of any group. If he was I’d definitely get police involved or counter extremism involvement.
I just want to shape his views but he just digs his heels in more and more! X

OP posts:
HmmSureJan · 08/01/2021 17:41

@BinkyBoinky

Jog on woke snowflake. That video sums up exactly what the world tells a white man every single day of the year

Hmm Oh the poor thing.

Do you not have concerns how that might play out in the future though? Entire generations of young white men being reviled and slapped down and told they're responsible for multiple atrocities and inequalities when they've never done a thing to harm another person.
KatherineFAE · 08/01/2021 18:23

@Crystalclair

How ridiculous that people are suggesting you report him etc. He totally should be allowed to have "right wing" views. Tories were voted in as was Brexit. It's not like some small group of people believing in aliens!! Its a majority.

I disagree with his racist views, and on that he should be challenged. However, I totally get where he says he feels oppressed. Since the BLM movement, my children have been made to feel somewhat responsible and as if they themselves should be ashamed. And don't get me started on the number of times they've been told they are white privileged. Its caused a huge divide at their school now, and wrong to make children feel ashamed of being white.

Hi, I agree that nobody should ever feel ashamed of their skin colour 👍 I also think that everyone is entitled to their views and that whether your politics are left or right then that’s ok. The big problem that we have at the moment though is that young people are being groomed and radicalised into the “extreme” far-right, which is quite different to just supporting Boris and Brexit. Radicalisation can begin at a very young age, and if a child is saying things like black people cant be British which is what the OP’s son is saying then it’s time to seek professional help. It’s definitely not about “reporting” a child - that is not what Prevent is about. It’s about safeguarding them from the dangers of extremism, both online and also offline. In the same way that you would seek help for a child that was being exposed to drugs or crime then we should also seek help for children that may be at risk of radicalisation. If there is anyone on here that thinks their child may be at risk of this, or if their child is showing early signs of it then PLEASE do have a look at the new prevent website actearly.co.uk that provides a lot of information and help for parents experiencing this. For what it’s worth my own son started off with repeating words from Nigel Farage and UKIP in 2016, and he went from that to being groomed by Neo-nazi group National Action, he’s now in prison for membership of that group. There is a definite slippery slope that vulnerable children can get sucked into, take it from someone who has experienced it first hand and has spoken to many other parents who’s children have also been radicalised and have ended up wishing they had reached out for help sooner rather than later. Katherine
AlexaShutUp · 08/01/2021 18:49

Katherine, you're very brave to share your experience on here. I hope that it will help other parents who may not be so aware of how these extremist groups reel vulnerable young people in. I hope that your ds is now getting the support that he needs to get onto a better track.

Bluebell798 · 08/01/2021 20:17

@TulesDana wow seriously? That is actually ridiculous.
Pretty illustrative of the point really- e.g. not agreeing with certain views making you some sort of dangerous extremist.

AcornAutumn · 08/01/2021 20:53

HmmSureJan "Do you not have concerns how that might play out in the future though? Entire generations of young white men being reviled and slapped down and told they're responsible for multiple atrocities and inequalities when they've never done a thing to harm another person."

Ironically, my 82 year old mum was just on the phone, having a totally unrelated discussion, and said "it's not as if people believe in the sins of the fathers anymore, we did away with that years ago".

She's 82, i haven't got the heart to tell her how things are going.

OverTheRubicon · 08/01/2021 22:47

@AcornAutumn

HmmSureJan "Do you not have concerns how that might play out in the future though? Entire generations of young white men being reviled and slapped down and told they're responsible for multiple atrocities and inequalities when they've never done a thing to harm another person."

Ironically, my 82 year old mum was just on the phone, having a totally unrelated discussion, and said "it's not as if people believe in the sins of the fathers anymore, we did away with that years ago".

She's 82, i haven't got the heart to tell her how things are going.

So you think that without BLM, everyone was taken at face value without negative assumptions based on their heritage? Hmm Hmm
HmmSureJan · 08/01/2021 22:51

So you think that without BLM, everyone was taken at face value without negative assumptions based on their heritage?

No. No one said anything remotely like that. So are we just going to do exactly the same thing again? Like payback. Not very progressive is it?

HmmSureJan · 08/01/2021 22:52

Oh wait, forgot my Hmm face.

AcornAutumn · 08/01/2021 22:56

Rubicon no, I didn't say that. I actually have no idea how you got that from my comment.

mum does also feel that BLM has done us more harm than good but that's a whole other story.

AgeLikeWine · 08/01/2021 23:04

Supporting Brexit, opposing uncontrolled mass immigration and expressing scepticism about the concept of ‘white privilege’ in a country in which white working class boys are the most underrepresented section of society in universities does not make you a neo-Nazi. And I say that as a former Labour activist.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 08/01/2021 23:07

Well, I’m pretty middle of the road but my DS is a young Trotsky/Stalinist. We smile a nod and very gently point out the flaws in the the idealistic world he wants to create Grin

GeorgiaMcGraw · 08/01/2021 23:17

@op your post where you describe his views (i can't seem to quote it, my phone is being weird) doesn't show anything worrying or extreme. He just sounds like he's figuring out his own views and you don't like that he disagrees with you. Bear in mind views do change, this is a part of growing up. It doesn't sound worrying. If anything maybe he is rebelling against an overbearing mother who is terrified at her son disagreeing with her...leave him be unless he actually shows any hatred towards a particular group, or an unhealthy interest in violence.

JanewaysBun · 08/01/2021 23:18

It stands out to me that the school are shit, mainly as they aren't supporting his ASD. I would take him out, find a more nurturing school that would help him more with his SEN. Hopefully when he's feeling more supported he will start to become just a normal know it all teenager!

SoVeryLost · 08/01/2021 23:30

@Jubbles

Actually there isn’t any mention of black Roman soldiers, I have a profound love for history the title had nothing to do with colour and everything to do with location. Africanus was the title give to people born in Africa, the same as some were given the title Germanicus because they were born in Germania. During the time of the Roman Empire North Africa was predominantly white , it had been settled by the Greeks, carthaginians, Vandals ect and only later were the inhabitants a darker complexion when the moors invaded and conquered North Africa. Giving a person a name of where they were from was normal even up until recent times. An example of this later would be the character Ezio Auditore da Firenze (of Florence). Although I understand this is a fictional character the same rules apply. Before anyone jumps down my throat I did not get this information from any particular author. I actually read the Roman sources. The Latin word for a black man was Aethiopes not Africanus. The Greeks called black people Ethiopians. So no the Romans in Britain that were deployed were still predominantly if not completely white. (Before I get jumped on for being racist I am not I am just sick of people either not knowing their history and/ or are lying about it .I am not left or right I am centre in my views) but I will not lie to make people feel better either. Ps my family and I are all immigrants.
I suggest you do further research as historians (Mary Beard for one) do not agree with you. There is evidence that some of the Romans in Britain were of African heritage. Reference with a two minute google: www.history.co.uk/article/the-history-of-black-britain-roman-africans
corythatwas · 09/01/2021 00:57

Jubbles Fri 08-Jan-21 10:57:15

Actually there isn’t any mention of black Roman soldiers

Written sources are only a small part of Classics these days. The evidence for people of sub-Saharan origin in Britain in Roman times comes from recent studies of skeletons. By studying skeletal material it is possible to gather evidence both as to their origin/genes and where they have spent time (through isotopes).

Oh and btw the Vandals didn't get to northern Africa until after the Roman legions had already been withdrawn from Britain. Just mentioned it because you said how sick you are of people not knowing their history...

independent98 · 09/01/2021 08:59

It is highly concerning that in 2021, extremist views are still prevalent in our next generations society without an understanding of how history generally repeats itself with those views.
I am glad that as a parent you are recognising and acknowledging that your son's views is no reflection of the way how you raised him however his views is based on his experience ( you mention that he is a minority in a black majority school) he does not feel like he fits in which is a huge part of youth identity.
Prevent is a great external organisation to contact however I would suggest a subtle approach. Do you have multicultural friends as I found that having people from different backgrounds around you generally teaches your son acceptance. ( I am a black person who has had friends parents who were extremely racist however once they got to know me, thier views changed)

cdtaylornats · 09/01/2021 17:45

Analysis of Roman burials in the UK shows 4 if the 22 analysed were black.

If he is interested in history perhaps suggest he watches Time Team.

openallthetime · 09/01/2021 21:40

Hi Op, saw your post and it reminded me of this guy who I discovered the other day. He's an ex cult member who now deprograms people from cults and also who has written a book about "The cult of trump" and how the internet rabbit holes suck people into a black and white way of thinking. I wonder if his book might be good, he has a few others. I am thinking of getting it and reading it because my dad has recently gone down the right wing conspiracy theory rabbit hole.

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008HAIWIW/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i1?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

There are some other books and you can find articles by him online. I hope it's useful. At the very least the articles are worth a read because they explain how to try to get through to people who latch onto these destructive internet based brainwashing videos and ideologies.

KaptainKaveman · 09/01/2021 23:02

It's very easy to become radicalised online. You only have to look at events in Washington this week. The woman shot dead, Ashley Babbitt, was up to her neck in Deep Fake Q'Anon conspiracy stuff.

KaptainKaveman · 09/01/2021 23:03

Same for the man who murderered Jo Cox.

FifteenToes · 10/01/2021 00:06

@borntohula

How the FUCK can anyone say that the statement 'black people aren't British' isn't racist? Not only racist, but fucking stupid too lol.
LOL indeed. Must be because MN is so "left wing". Smile
FifteenToes · 10/01/2021 00:26

I have an adult son with very different political views to my own and I don't see that as a problem. We have a lot of interesting discussions, he's very well informed, we learn from each other and help to nuance and deepen each others' views.

I would be worried about the empathy gap though. Making a statement like "black people can't be British" is not just ignorant; it also demonstrates a terrible lack of awareness of how it must feel to be someone, a citizen of their own country just as your son is, that has to live with people making those kind of duhumanising and erasing judgments every day of their life. For most people, that basic level of empathy would stop them from making such a statement, hopefully for long enough that they could actually then work out that it's not just cruel but also factually wrong.

Similarly with black Roman soldiers, the problem for me would be not the historical question of whether there were or weren't, but the question of why he thinks race is such an important marker of an individual that he can't overlook it. Did he scrutinize all the extras playing soldiers to check that they were an appropriate height for Roman soldiers? That they had the right hair colour? Art is not real, and I've never had a problem seeing people play people of different races. Or for that matter of different ages (eg in a youth theatre production) or whatever.

It's also worth considering the practical implications of the peculiar (to me) idea that while actors routinely play characters very different from themselves, in the one attribute of race they must always match up exactly. Are we saying that someone brought up in Britain, speaking English and part of British culture, who happens to be physically black, must ONLY EVER play one of the tiny minority of roles that corresponds to their race, even if they're the most fantastically talented and dedicated actor in the world with the potential to do great things across the entire reportoire? That seems insane to me, both for the artform and for human rights.

I'd be wanting to challenge him on these kinds of matters because they are issues of consideration and empathy, which he clearly needs to develop to function properly in the world both for himself and others. If as you say he might be on the autistic spectrum then there will obviously be some specific challenges involved in that. Whether he has right or left wing economic views, OTOH, I don't think you can or even should seek to determine. Just put your views as intelligently as possible and challenge him as you would anyone else.

PlanDeRaccordement · 10/01/2021 13:31

@borntohula
How the FUCK can anyone say that the statement 'black people aren't British' isn't racist? Not only racist, but fucking stupid too lol.

I agree. The statement is racist. But I’m holding back on calling the DS a racist because as a teen/child usually it is ignorance and youth behind such statements. To as other posters have said the internet is full of foul people brainwashing vulnerable children. I don’t know if it’s right or wrong, but I tend to take approach with teens/children that they just don’t know better and so my response is usually to try and educate, open their minds instead of writing them off as just plain racist and going no contact.

BinkyBoinky · 10/01/2021 18:30

@HmmSureJan

Well, generations of black men have grown up being told they're scum/criminals/lowest of the low for no good reason whatsoever.

Now we're supposed to care about the feelings of poor liddle white men just because they can't face up to a few home truths of history? We have to spare their poor hurt feelings because otherwise they'll turn neo-Nazi on us? Really?!

HmmSureJan · 10/01/2021 18:41

Now we're supposed to care about the feelings of poor liddle white men just because they can't face up to a few home truths of history? We have to spare their poor hurt feelings because otherwise they'll turn neo-Nazi on us? Really?!

Well yes. Because neglect, dismissal and dehumanisation of a whole social group never does to tend to turn out too well does it and if you can't see that you're an idiot.