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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Original poster

Bullying daughter

103 replies

doesntmatterwhoiam · 19/10/2007 10:37

I have namechanged.

I have just had a phone call from my dh who has been phoned by the headmaster.

My teenage sixthformer dd and a friend have been accused of making another girls life hell. She handed a note in today from my dd and her friend and it said basically 'you are dead this evening, bitch'.

I am shocked and horrified.

I know that there are problems in the class - that there are two distinct groups of girls and my dd is in the 'I'm so popular and so cool it hurts' group. I have talked to her and her friends having heard them talk and bitch about the other girls and 'how much they hate them'. I was shocked at the depth of nastiness and deep feeling and told them in no uncertain terms that 'there for the grace of god go I' and that they should be kinder and if they cannot bear the other girls they should just bloody well leave them alone.

I have heard my dd gossiping on the phone about this and talked to her afterwards - her supercilious attitude (she has been offered a cleaning job for pocket money by a neighbour and turned it down because she is too good to be anybodies cleaner; she sneered at my new pjs because they came from matalan) is unbearable and she and her friends think that they are just the bees knees.

What do I do? I will have to talk to her, obviously, but holy cow. I cannot beleive a child of mine is behaving like this. I am ashamed and angry.

The headmaster said he may well take it further (police,) and if it was my child being bullied I would be all for it. Perhaps she needs a short sharp shock.

She is too old for a bloody good hiding or stopping pocket money (can do this but will not hurt as has money in bank).

I can take away her mobile or laptop but it all seems so petty.

I want to shake her till her teeth rattle to make her see sense.

Reading the last comment makes me think that I sound like an evil cruel corporal punishment (thus learned behaviour) mother. NOt at all. Am just at complete loss.

Ideas please.

OP posts:
ProfessorGrammaticus · 21/10/2007 18:49

Yes but you and Dh are right to punish - the other parents are wrong (it's not you, it's them!)

And, surprising though it is, in my professional life I have known men (with previous convictions) go to gaol for exactly this - threats to kill, the courts call it and I, as a naive articled clerk, couldn't believe how seriously it was taken.

ProfessorGrammaticus · 21/10/2007 18:50

Crossed 2 posts there with my slow 2 finger typing!

Original poster
doesntmatterwhoiam · 21/10/2007 18:51

I agree PG and yes, murder threats are not taken lightly by the courts and as my dh kept saying, dear God, if that child tried to kill herself........

OP posts:
Carmenere · 21/10/2007 18:52

McDonalds are hiring in your area, I am almost sure of it. I think that if I were you at this stage I would just ignore her and if she keeps on playing up tell her that it is your way or the high way. And keep on repeating it until she understands that the privilege of an education like the one you have given her come with the cost of respect, obedience and gratitude.

ProfessorGrammaticus · 21/10/2007 18:56

The bloke I remember didn't mean a word of it either - he was just trying to put the wind up someone. Did have long record though and gaol tattoos!

CHOCOLATEPEANUT · 21/10/2007 19:01

Agree with custy and others

Zero tolerance.

If my dd ever called me a bitch I would end up doing time.

I rule my house too

dolally · 21/10/2007 21:25

hold on - keep strong, doesn'tmatter.

Who says the other parents aren't punishing their kids? your dd? In which case take that with a pinch of salt.

You are doing your dd a great favour because, as others have said, she's 18 and an adult, and threatening to kill someone is not taken lightly by the courts. If she doesn't want to be "treated like a baby" then tell her she can be dealt with by the authorities as an adult in the adult world if that's what she prefers.

All this is very easy for me to say, of course, and I don't underestimate the awfulness of it for you. Good luck.

peacelily · 22/10/2007 00:31

this is so so horrible and awful for you, it must be the worst feeling and I hope you have a support system to get you through this.

groups of girls are vile. From what you speak abou there's a total lack of respect and humility going on.

Involve the Police, take away her privedges and withdraw her from the school. she can finish her education off somewhere where there's a less vicious peer group.

I don't want to make you feel worse than you do but actions like this have life lasting consequences. some people are affected forever by bullying, speaking from experience, it never leaves you.

somehow she needs to feel some remorse and the consequences of ehr actions. I hope you and your dh can find find a way thru this.

potatofactory · 22/10/2007 07:12

I would definitely not recommend a forced apology for the girl who has been bullied. As a secondary school teacher, I'm aware that just the SLIGHTEST tone of voice can make these rude rather than successful, and HOWEVER the apology is done, it will be miserable for the bullied girl - why should she have to listen to an insincere (which I bet it will be) apology? The whole process will just add to her humiliation, I think. I doubt the bulllier really feels sorry - she will do later, but that might not be for years, realistically. I did some bullying at school, and am still mortified.

YeahBut · 22/10/2007 09:37

Great sympathy for you and your dh.
Have you thought about doing some research into the (often) life-long impact of bullying on victims and showing this to your dd? Even starting a thread on here asking for mumsnetters (like oxocube) to share their experiences. I think your dd doesn't really appreciate the impact that her behaviour may have had on this other girl. To her it may be "only"(!) a few bitchy comments or "just" a note. Perhaps if she were to read how things like this stay with people for so many years, she may begin to understand why her behaviour is so unacceptable. It sounds as though she needs to learn a little empathy.
I was bullied at school and the experience has never left me.

Earthymama · 22/10/2007 10:06

I can understand how you are feeling and how appalled you are that her values are so different from those you thought you had encouraged her to develop. Be strong now and your daughter will get through this.

I would encourage her to mix with other people, do some volunteering, (through DofE, or in local shops etc.) If you drive everywhere, mix with a limited social group, she'll have no opportunity to mix with people who are different from her.

I do worry that with our move away from organized religion, (I'm a pagan, so not saying we should go to church!), moral and ethical guidance is not part of our agenda in an upfront way IYSWIM; we presume that leading by example we'll pass on our values and don't need to discuss things openly.

However, young people today are increasingly influenced by the media, where people are celebrated for appalling behaviour, where kindness is associated with weakness, where ME Me Me is all that counts. I hate soaps with a passion, I think their value systems are dreadful.

I read this column in the Guardian every week open mouthed that parents let their children behave in this way. I would never accept being talked to like this, my daughter said she would be terrified and she's nearly 30!!

I hope you resolve this, can you and her have some time together where you explain how hurt you are, how sad this has made you, and get her to talk to you properly about her feelings and actions?

I'll be thinking of you, I'm sure it will resolve itself and she'll be a better person for it. You and DH are so much more responsible parents than the others in this. Makes you realise the sort of people she's mixing with get their attitudes though?
lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/family/story/0,,2195098,00.html

CarGirl · 22/10/2007 16:48

Have you asked your daughter what she would like to happen to a group of girls as punishment if they had bullied her??

Elizabetth · 22/10/2007 17:03

I think you just need to stop engaging with your daughter about this. So what if she thinks you are being unfair - she's got a right to her opinion but as it's your house and your rules and you are her parent it's up to you. What you've done sounds reasonable.

If the punishment is in place and the school is also dealing with it there isn't really much more that you can do to change her attitude. It may take a bit of time for the seriousness of what she's done to sink in but hopefully her seeing how all the adults around her have reacted to what she and her friends have done she'll begin to understand the implications.

Maybe you could try talking to her again once some of the anger has gone out of the situation both for you and for her. It's not helping either of you to end up in a screaming match.

newgirl · 22/10/2007 18:17

any chance your daughter and her friends will write to the 'victim' to apologize?

trying to think about it from the victims point of view i would want to see a school punishment/police involvement and it ending.

I would not want to see or talk to the bully's parents so i dont think that is a good idea.

could you ask the head if the victim (for want of a better word) is ok and what she expects to happen? does she want an apology or for it all to go away as soon as possible? that might give you more guidance.

i am amazed your 18 does not have a job - where does she get money from? I think Id stop an allowance or whatever arrangement you have - it might help to make her more grounded and less spoilt.

BrownSuga · 22/10/2007 18:46

crikey, if i treated my DM like this at that age, i'd have found myself in a&e! I was kicked out of home at 17 for going on a ski trip with my brother as HE didn't fix the exhaust on his car! (custy are you my mother?)

It seems as if she has quite a privileged lifestyle and this is affecting her outlook and therefore treatment of others.

You say she had a summer job, as soon as my DB and I were working, we paid board. It was about a quarter of our wage, so made an impact. We also did a lot around the house, helps to realise that things aren't done in the night by fairies.

And perhaps she should be forced to take the cleaning job for the neighbour, without pay or half of the original offer!

hope things have calmed down a bit for you.

Original poster
doesntmatterwhoiam · 23/10/2007 08:20

She has her disciplinary hearing at school today.

Is still being Miss Attitude; thinks I am grossly overreacting. She actually feels victimised!

I know that there were 'two factions' and that the bullied girl was part of the second clique, but my dd has been singled out as a bully and the other girl as the victim, so I do feel that my dd overstepped the line (to put it mildly) as did at least one of her friends, and I cannot believe that the other girls are not being punished.

She has also a note in her correspondence book from a teacher talking about her snotty attitude and a second where she was recently caught doing the homework for one subject during the lesson for another.

OP posts:
reviewer · 23/10/2007 10:56

I hope that it all turns out for the best.
I suggest that you speak directly to the school, if you can, to get the true version of the hearing.

MadamePlatypus · 23/10/2007 12:12

Have you read Queen Bees and Wannabes? might give you some tips?

Maybe I am out of date, but I am surprised that this is going on in the sixth form. I can remember loads of very organised bullying going on in lower forms at my private school, but by the sixth form most people were either focused on their studies or their own social lives. (Or maybe they were just taking too many drugs by that stage ).

If you can afford it, I think crammers will take on anybody - you just work and there is no social side. I don't think that is the best option, and I wouldn't tell her that you are considering it, but if you have that up your sleeve for if she sorts her ideas out, it may give you the confidence to tell her she can either change the way she behaves at school or you will stop funding her education and she must go and work cleaning the toilets in Matalan. Atleast as a step 1 I would make it known to her that you are going to discuss with the school the possibilities of withdrawing her this week.

To be honest, sending a note saying "you are dead this evening, bitch" to somebody is the work of a 13 year old, or an intellectually sub-normal adult, not of an intelligent 18 year old.

What is she planning to do next year?

theUrbanDevil · 23/10/2007 17:36

doesntmatter - i've read the thread, and just wanted to add, that an office junior who worked in my dh's office got involved with a group of girls. she threatened and was involved (but didn't actually commit assault) in the assault and gbh of another girl. your dd should think herself very lucky indeed that the police have not been involved - they're not at all impresed by attitude, let me tell you.

i'm sorry, but she sounds like a spoilt little madam, and she needs to sort it out!

Original poster
doesntmatterwhoiam · 23/10/2007 18:03

They had the disciplinary meeting today. My dd was cleared of all involvement - there had been group bitching and bickering but the other girls - and the rest of the class and the victim all said seperately and alone that my dds friend had been the perpetrator and when things got out of hand (as they apparently did so fast) that my dd and her friend were seen as one entity and that my dd had nothing to do with the verbal or written threats.

My dd formally apologised to the girl for any involvement and hurt that she had caused and the apology was accepted.

The school are going to write a formal letter to us absolving dd and it will go in her correspondence book as well. I think the head has rung my dh but I have not had the chance to talk to him.

However, she has been a little *** the past few weeks/months and very very full of herself. I have told her that her attitude has been shite and that she really really needs to buck up as her behaviour has been unacceptable. I have said she can have her phone and laptop back at the end of the month and that if she starts the attitude thang again she will lose both, indefinitely.

She has been told to get a job

Thank you all for listening and your support. Mumsnet may well be a coven of judgemental witches but I think that we are lovely judgemental witches!

OP posts:
Saturn74 · 23/10/2007 18:04

I'm glad it has all been sorted.
You've dealt with it brilliantly.

ProfessorGrammaticus · 23/10/2007 19:26

That's really good, I'm pleased for you. I still think you got it right all through.

dolally · 23/10/2007 22:02

thanks for updating us dm, I have been thinking about you. I hope you can all put it behind you now.

But don't back down on the sanctions you imposed will you...otherwise she really will not take you seriously. Sorry...don't mean to preach!!

TwigorTreat · 23/10/2007 22:06

well done all of you

hope she bucks her ideas up and grows up for you

18 .. .sheesh

CarGirl · 23/10/2007 22:42

I hope the parents of the real bully who did all that abuse do punish her........I guess it will be a friendship that you won't be keen to encourage......

Well done you, glad things are better than they first looked.