Help! I kicked my 17 dd to her dad's house after a bad row

[shawarmakarma]

Hi, I need advice please.
My 17 year old DD lives with me and her stepdad, and has done for 10 years. We have had her 90% of that time. No other young kids.
Her dad lives 10 km away. We co-parent very well, though he is pretty wimpy and has always sided with her, given in to her will and defied anything I ever tried to impose on her in terms of rules, when she was young and when we were still married.

She is a lovely girl in many ways, but I also find her very rude and selfish (only child). She is beautiful and smart and she will often send me texts to say how much she loves me (normally accompanied by a selfie, at a party).

But...she is entitled and selfish. She has a whole wing to herself in our house with two spare bedrooms for sleepovers with friend etc...
We bought her a car after she passed her license recently. Shared cost with her dad. It's a Peugeot 206 - nice car, I think. Butt her friends all have Audis and she thinks her car is a piece of shit. She goes to a private school and has had plenty of international holidays.

Her rudeness to me over the years has caused problems with her stepdad, my DH, who doesn't put up with it (and has two, very well adjusted 30 year old kids). He's military. I'd say he has been a bit cold towards her over the years because of her attitude. She spends weeks with us, then a week with her dad, then back to us.
She has told me umpteen times that she prefers staying with us because it's close to her friends and she saves on fuel living here. But that she prefers to stay with her dad.

Anyway, to make a long story short, she behaved incredibly selfishly the other day (as usual). I slept downstairs because I had insomnia that night. I also had a nosebleed in the night and I left a single piece of toilet paper on the floor in the corridor in her wing of the house. When I woke up in the morning, I didn't notice it and called out a cheery "good morning" to her. I then got a comment about the toilet paper. I said "oh, I had a nosebleed in the night, it must be from that". I was already irritated by her comment. She then yelled out "this is a shared space, you know", really bitchy and slammed the door in my face. I reacted badly and swore over and over under my breath "fucking bitch, fucking bitch". - Yes, I know this was wrong but I was at the end of my tether after weeks of rudeness.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I tried to talk to her about it that afternoon after school/ work and it descended into chaos. She heard my comments and wanted an apology, which I was unwilling to give. She screamed at me at the top of her voice that I should fuck off and get fucked and fuck off some more. My husband came in to try to calm her down and she screamed at him to fuck off too. Bad decision. Anyway, it got worse and worse. I told her then that I couldn't live like this any longer with her swearing at me and asked her to leave for a while to live with her dad.
She started crying/screaming, asking me if I was kicking her out. I replied that I felt guilty about it but that I definitely wanted her to leave and that she was only living with us because her friends live 5 minutes away. Then she called me a cunt. She called me a cunt of a mother. The worst fucking mother in the world.

And then she left. I texted her dad to tell him what had happened. He replied 'ok'. This was 5 days ago.

She came home a couple of times during the week to collect some things. My husband was working from home and had an unfortunate confrontation with her. He told her to text us when she comes over to get her stuff because living here is a privilege and that he would change the locks on her for her behaviour.

She has phoned me tonight, screaming at me that changing the locks on her is abuse and how can I be married to someone who would do that to her. I told her that I can't listen to her screaming at me and I hung up.

I still pay her allowance and her gym membership.

She will be 18 in 5 weeks.

She also screamed at me that she told everyone what we had done to her (kicking her out and changing the locks) and that everyone is on her side.

From my viewpoint, I wish my husband hadn't said that about the locks, but he was so fed up with her coming and going after she was so rude, and thinking that nobody was home so she could skulk in and get her stuff.

To be honest, I am bereft, sad, desperately grieving. I am also glad that all the drama is gone. But I can't enjoy that she's not here because I feel so guilty. When the drama kicked off in her room while we were arguing, why didn't I just walk away? I feel like I contributed to it. I feel so guilty.

Please, some advice. xx

Having a wing of the house is a privilege.

It's sounds like a lonely existence being pushed aside.

OP you say she has stayed with you and her step dad for 10 years, where did she live before that?

Dreadful parenting all round - recently and over the last 17 years. Why on earth does your child have a wing and spare bedrooms? You've raised a brat and it's your fault. Ugh.

I'd be worried about a 17yo who had had to live with a stepfather who had been cold to her for several years. I'd assume that she must be hurting quite a lot as a result of that kind of rejection. Being told at that age that living with your mother should be considered a privilege would also be quite shocking.

I'd also be worried about any kid whose mother had called them a fucking bitch and then refused to apologise for it. I honestly cannot imagine ever using that kind of language about my teenage daughter, but I'd be full of regret and remorse if I did. And I'd think I had reaped what I had sowed if she then threw the same kind of abuse right back at me.

Your dd has behaved badly, I'm sure, but you and your DH sound awful. She might have been given loads of material advantages, but it doesn't sound like she has received much love.

She lives in a separate wing of her mother's house, so not really part of the main household. Poor kid. A car, international holidays, private school and a gym membership don't make up for feeling you are not wanted.

Hi, and thanks for all your comments. I'm in Australia, so not in same time zone to reply in a time-appropriate way. I'll reply more after work. Thanks for taking the time to contribute.
I will just add that I didn't leave bloody toilet paper anywhere. One square of clean, white toilet paper floated onto the corridor floor.

OP, in case you're still reading, I've re-read your intro and I want to say that I apologize for being quite so harsh in my response. It sounds like you regret what happened.

I think the best way forward is to talk with her, in as neutral a space as possible. Start with an apology, because she deserves one. Then try to unpack some basic ideas/boundaries. This time, I'd start with how she's feeling about things and why she's lashing out. You can be clear that you don't think it's acceptable while still open to hearing her side of things.

Perhaps in another talk you can about boundaries--what you expect from her, what she expects from you.

If it helps to have a neutral party involved, a couple sessions with a family counselor could do a world of good to make sure you're both being heard.

You're entirely right that she should be rude to you. But at that age, rudeness is one part instinct, one part habit, and one part immediate emotions they find difficult to control.

I'd end by saying that manyI'd venture to say mostteenage girls have tricky periods of time with their moms. It's part of the process. The key is not losing basic trust, respect, and love. Everything else passes.

This thread has given me flashbacks to my mother, frequently, drunk and calling me vile
Names outside my door “under her breath”. The sort of “fucking bitch” thing you did. It’s absolutely Abhorrent! Same goes for making it clear I could be homeless at any given time.

I was very “spoilt” too with material things. But deeply miserable and mistreated.

In this scenario my sympathy is entirely with your daughter. Wonder why she thinks it’s ok to call someone a “Cunt”!

I think alot of people would be upset at having to pick up a bloody tissue.

FFS. What a princess.....

I wouldn't, if I found it on the floor. Just flush it down the fucking toilet! And if it's soaked, grab a plastic sandwich bag and chuck it in the bin.

Takes half a minute.

It's what you do when you live in a house with other people. Then have an ask around who's been injured, and how.

I always feel a bit when parents cite the money they have spent on their children as some kind of character defect in the child

you chose to spend that money- you can't blame her for that now

you made a hopefully educated choice as to what would be a suitable level of spending

you chose to give her a wing of her own (and hand on heart, are you sure it was nothing to do with keeping her at a distance from yourself and her stepfather?)

you chose to share her home with someone who dislikes her and tells her that living in her own home is a privilege

Yes, she behaved badly. But so did the grown-ups around her by all accounts. You swearing and name-calling your dd is just as bad as her swearing and name-calling you.

It seems to me that you think spending money is some kind of substitute for making your child feel at home. It isn't. Children, including near-adolescents, don't need a fortune spent on them. But they need to feel they are important to you, they need to feel you want them there, they need to feel that you will protect them against anyone who doesn't want them there. One quip like that "privilege" one and that man would be gone out of my life!

Children do need to be pulled up on their rudeness, but in a way that does not threaten their belonging in their own family.
There are very limited circumstances under which I feel you are justified in kicking your child out. Protecting yourself against violence, protecting a younger sibling against violence. Using the same swear-words that her mother does is not one of them.

Let her go to her Dad's, it's not as if you are kicking her out to live on the streets.

Teenagers can be such hard work, my 19 year old came home from Uni at the beginning of lockdown, the first couple of months were fine (I even posted rather smugly on here that we were enjoying board game evenings and film nights . Since then we have all got cabin fever and it's difficult, I lost my temper with him yesterday and shouted (don't think I swore but I did throw a packet of biscuits on the floor).

I know I acted like a petulant child but I was so fed up, DS is working hard in a factory job 8-6 but that means he needs to borrow my car (I can walk to work), I work Saturdays so Sunday is my only day to use the car, visit my elderly parents (DS usually comes with me and walks with my 90 year old Dad so I do appreciate that's a nice thing to do), do the shopping and do a volunteering role - yesterday he asked for the car back at 4 to meet friends so I rushed around to get the car back. He was at home doing 'nothing' from 10.30-3.30 (Wasn't asleep as he had got up for a cooked by me breakfast at 10).

Walked into a tip, kitchen looked like a student flat, I'd asked him to sort his washing out - he also has his own 'wing' - we live in a town house & he has the top two bedrooms plus own shower room ... hadn't bothered to sort his washing, clean ironed clothes stuffed in the back of his wardrobe, clothes strewn over all three rooms, and various socks around the house etc. I was livid and completely lost my rag. I know it's pathetic but sometimes teenagers do that to us.

I am standing firm, he will do his own laundry from now on.

Sorry, that's my personal moan for the day - leave your DD with her Dad, she will be fine.

You started the swearing. Your husband has been cold to her for years, and she has had to live with that, and his military approach.

You clearly have a very affluent lifestyle, and your family has many privileges. I'm sure I've seen a post about the same issues a while ago.

Your daughter has become the person you raised, it's appalling that you allowed a step parent to threaten her home and that you kicked her out. The pair of you have crossed the line far more than she has.

@lunar1

You started the swearing. Your husband has been cold to her for years, and she has had to live with that, and his military approach.

You clearly have a very affluent lifestyle, and your family has many privileges. I'm sure I've seen a post about the same issues a while ago.

Your daughter has become the person you raised, it's appalling that you allowed a step parent to threaten her home and that you kicked her out. The pair of you have crossed the line far more than she has.

OP admitted to swearing. OP also said good morning and her daughter had a BAD attitude and I think the swearing lead from there wrong of course. It does sound like OP would not have sworn had the daughter just picked the tissue up and said good morning. A bit of tissue is a minor thing.

Tell your husband to stay out of it. She's your daughter, you do the disciplining.

Have you considered therapy for you and your daughter? It sounds like there's a lot of anger rushing around your house from all sides.

You called her a fucking bitch, several times. Then you refused to apologise.
Then you basically removed her from your life for swearing.

I can't even imagine the hurt if I heart my mother saying anything like that. What a horrible, horrible thing. And a complete overreaction- all she did was remind you that it is a shared space (to me, that sounds like something a mother would say to a teenage child.)

I think she'd prefer a mother who doesn't call her a fucking bitch than an Audi.

OP also said good morning and her daughter had a BAD attitude

The bad attitude didn’t happen in a vacuum, did it? I mean why is this teenager so unhappy? Why is she so angry? Could it be that she has been treated like shit for years by her mother and stepfather and is an angry, aggressive person as a result? She’s only just come out of childhood - lots of victim
Blaming here. She didn’t raise herself to be disrespectful, angry and spoilt.

She sounds exceptionally unloved and uncared for and will feel it keenly.

Hi everyone, thanks so much for you comments, which I very much appreciate. She does have her own wing, but that's only because it's a big house and that's the way the house is designed. We parents have a bedroom upstairs. We live in Australia, so houses are a bit bigger, I guess.

We live in a modest, but big house. My dd's friend all have huge houses overlooking the ocean - according to my dd our house is "rank" and 'gross'. It's not me that spoils her, it's her dad. We don't have central heating, so I'll provide a fan heater for her room, whereas at her dad's house, it's all Dyson heaters and digitally integrated music/front door cameras and things that you talk to make things happen. Every time the school has sent a notice home to say there's a trip to Europe for their year, ex-dh and dd are all in, whereas I'm "well...... the behaviour doesn't deserve this"..... I don't like the term, but my exdh is a Disney Dad who gives her everything that she wants. When I specifically said to him when DD was a toddler, I didn't want her to have BRATZ dolls, he went out an bought the collection. When my mum babysat for us one night, she put 4 year old DD on timeout for bad behaviour. When exdh got home, granny pleaded with him to support her. Instead (as always) he picked her up and said "aw sweetie....what did granny do to you?" Story of our lives. My mother still goes on about this. She's 83 and still remembers it.
My DH, her stepdad, was the most enthusiastic stepdad you could imagine. He would give her piggybacks up to bed every night and encourage time together all the time. As the years flew by, he couldn't bear the way she spoke to me. My SISTERS can't bear her behaviour. They are astounded by her selfishness. But they still love her, and so does my DH. And more than anyone, so do I.

We sat down 4 months ago to talk about taking and giving. We talked about how we can give to DD - education, encouragement, financially, a car, pocket money etc... but we asked for her to give what she could: kindness, greeting us when we come home, small chores, doing dishes when she saw them. She has has not excelled on this.
Above all, ironically given that I was the perp, no swearing at each other.

I SHOULD have apologised for swearing at her under my breath accidentally on purpose loudly. I AM guilty for letting things escalate. I am guilty for letting her get so upset when I should have given her space and walked away. Instead, I insisted on just forcing things to the point of her screaming at me to the point that stepdad would step in and make things worse.
I don't know why I did.

But, despite my feeling guilty and horrible, my DD is often not a kind or nice person. That morning, when that stupid, CLEAN, ONE square of toilet paper floated into our lives, it was at a point when I was so frustrated by her selfishness. I had had a terrible night of insomnia and a nosebleed....so had barely slept. When she made her comment about "this is a shared space" - and not in a nice way, , after my cheery "good morning, what's on today" and then slammed the loo door in my face..... I guess I just lost it.
Lastly, DH - her stepdad. When I said he has been cold, I should have said he has been cool. He has tried, believe me. I do believe that biological love is very important. He doesn't have that salve to get him over her rudeness and disrespect. It's really hard to give unconditional love to a non-biological child. And my DD has pushed him to the limit. It didn't help that she screamed at him to fuck off last week when he tried to intervene.

The change of lock comment from DH to DD is regrettable. He had texted her to say that she was welcome at any time to come over, but to let us to know first. She didn't know he was working from home that week, so when she came home to get some stuff, she was snotty to him when she entered the house, declaring that it was none of his business what she was there for..... that's where the change of locks comment came from. Regrettable.
My DD has texted me a few times today, asking for baby photos for a project. She even sent me a kiss on the end of a 6-way text exchange. I think she knows that we are both in the wrong.
All I know is that I can't live without her,.

Thank you all for your comments. You can never know another's life. But I can assure you that I love my dd very much. We are in a foreign country and life is complicated.

Again, thank you.

God it's all so material. Is there any normal family interactions?

A car, an allowance, gym membership and a wing of the house.
That's a lot.

I dunno. Obviously you should apologise for swearing and letting things explode. But I do think you and her father need to dial back the spoiling or she wont be ready for the real world.

I got kicked out when I was 17, for very different reasons. I went to live with my older sister.
I wouldn't ever kick my son out, but I don't consider myself particularly damaged by being kicked out.

Oh I feel your pain.

DD (almost 14) is such a nightmare at the moment - can be really nasty and unkind towards me, her younger siblings. And then at times she can be really lovely.

One thing I wanted to ask was whether there may be any hormone issues? By your own admission, she isn't kind and am wondering is there is something physiological?

What is she like with friends? Does she have a wide friendship group or any close friends? This would at least indicate that she has the capacity to regulate her own behaviour.

I would arrange some sort of meet up with DD, and apologise for your actions, and take responsibility for the escalation, that maybe it wasn't your finest parenting moment, but that you were tired, but the years of her being difficult has taken its toll.

She is 17, so almost an adult, and maybe you need to start thinking about what sort of relationship you want with her. You may need help and really would suggest seeing a family therapist who could at least help with the conversation. Or maybe you could see a therapist yourself with a view to try and get her to engage?

Your most recent post makes it all sound very understandable and less alarming than it might have been at first read. You do sound like a lovely mum doing your best.

Teens are very often egocentric and self-centred as a natural stage of their brain development. e.g. article here
www.newscientist.com/article/dn10030-why-adolescents-put-themselves-first/
Combine that with a teen's natural desire to develop independently from parents, their limited ability to assess risk and you can be in for some explosive situations.

I'd suggest supporting her to stay with her dad permanently/ semi permanently. She's ok there. Make it 'official' by confirming with her dad and moving her stuff. Explain to her that you love her but think you both need some space from each other and agree regular times for her to come over and visit. I'm very sure that Disney Dad wont be such an appealing prospect to her when they get fed up with each other. He may be slack and have flashy gadgets but he'll not enjoy her screaming and tantrums any more than you do. See this as a positive development of her independence and show her the adult way to manage moving out, but my money's on her wanting to come back sooner rather than later. (Don't let her until she agrees to clear boundaries and demonstrates that she can behave acceptably).

Good luck. You love her and she loves you so you'll both be ok.

That’s a positive update op. It’s great your dd got in touch with you today.

Very best of luck with working your way through this. Teenagers can push any of us to our limits.

Ragwort Do his future Wife a favour and leave him to sort himeself out, he is an adult not a child. Stay strong and stick to your guns.