Please please help me to help my DD, I’m desperate.

[sweetkitty]

I’ll try and keep it short, DD2 just turned 14. Tonight it all came to a head and DH had to come between us as she pushed me and was going to hit me.

Over the past maybe 6 months she has been getting increasingly horrid to me. Things like “oh wait until your driving” “yes then I’ll drive away from you” x20 per day. No thanks ever the usual.

She is generally an anti-social nasty person and I think it is stemming from her toxic friendship group. They talk to each other like dirt so then she comes home and talks to her family like dirt. I seem to be the main target but she can be horrid to DH and her siblings. She has one best friend for age 2 but I don’t think she’s a good friend for her, it’s not a typical girlie friendship. The two of them have always been tomboys which is fine but the way they talk to each other is shocking. I suspect DD2 is being bullied in that she is the butt of the nastiness and teasing but won’t leave her best friend as she will be alone.

I’ve tried talking to her but get nowhere. She doesn’t go out with friends, she comes home and would sit in her room on her iPad day and night. Very rarely talks to friends on it either. Getting her to shower is a fight in itself. She says she hates people and is anti-social.

After speaking to DD1 (not at the same school) I think she cannot handle the love and kindness her family show (me especially) as she is getting treated so badly by her friends. She will tell me snippets of being teased for being specky and ginger or weird.

I cannot get her to talk about it and now even if I say hello how are you I’ll get some nasty comment in return. Tonight I had had enough and did shout at her which was when she started swearing at me and pushed me.

I don’t know where to start trying to help her, have spent the night sobbing.

Could be completely barking up wrong tree here, but do you think she could be battling with her sexuality?
Her across the board anger at everything at home (including the pets) does sound very similar to a friends DD who was struggling big time.

Hi op, I have older ds’s (20’s) and a 14 yr old dd - so been there, done that! The best bit of advice I can give you is that this will pass. 14-15 is the worst age imo and I’m finding my dd so much nastier and disrespectful than my sons were at that age. I do think a lot of it is learnt behaviour from her friends and social media etc. the way they speak to one another etc (they love the film mean girls and compare themselves to Regina George!)

I’m sure you’re dd is just saying things like the cat being ‘fat and gay’ and that Florida will be rubbish to get a rise out of you so I wouldn’t take it too seriously. It sounds like a bit of attention seeking. She does sound like she’s a bit unhappy and maybe struggling a bit socially. My own 14 yr old is a bit like this at the moment - she seems to revel in being very rude and nasty to her dad and siblings (rude to me too but not quite as much as she is to her dad - he’s a louder personality and seems to rub her up the wrong way).
Their hormones are all over the place - they’re becoming young women and don’t know how to process it maybe. They’re not kids anymore but not adults either.
Obviously it’s not ok for her to call you names and push you and she should be punished for that accordingly but I just think you need to try not to worry so much and take a bit of a back seat. Agree with pp saying just ask her general questions and Let her some to you - don’t interrogate her.
It’ll pass I’m sure it will but I understand how it feels.

Oh, and with regards to her not feeding her lizard - personally I’d give her an ultimatum (calmly) and say you’re getting rid of it. And if she continues not feeding it - follow through. My ds did this with his snake and it died, I should’ve been much stricter about it.

Could she go and do a residential course with horses. It's life changing if you can find something.

Sounds tough for you all.

As mother of three teen daughters incl 1 with ASD, I think you might be too quick to discount it as a possibility.

I am also unclear why she can't go horse riding this weekend, if you want to encourage her interests and get her out doing something then taking that away seems madness.

If she's on the iPad not talking to friends is she watching Netflix or playing games? Can you start watching her show with her (or even without her, just so you have something to talk about) or challenge her at a game - find a connection.

She sounds like she's really struggling, and while you are her punching bag it's important to remember that this is not about you. She is lashing out at you because it's 'safe' to do so. The title of your thread is about helping your DD but some of your posts are not really focussed on that.

Can you step back a bit, accept that (for now) she's not going to be as nice or as grateful as you'd like but that it really is not personal. Taking the battle out of your interactions might help you feel better anyway.
For example, if she's not going to feed the lizard can you just accept that you will? It seems like it's letting her off the hook, but really it's just one less thing to fight over. If you don't want to do this then I would find it a new home.

It's easier to find time to talk if you're not battling over everything. Why does she not want to go to Florida? Is she anxious about the travel? Going to miss something here at home? Without putting her under pressure I would try to find out what she's thinking - in the car or while she's in good form if you can start a conversation. If she gets anxious or upset then stop the conversation.

As a pp suggested, punishment is rarely the solution in these situations, you want to get to the bottom of the issue so you can help her find a better way to cope with everything that's overwhelming her. Telling her you love her and are always on her side (then backing straight off!) is a good way to start. Good luck!

Have spent time with teenage ASD females
I would not rule out asd yet
Get back to GP and ask for Camhs referral??

Yes I was thinking possible ASD, and/or depression and anxiety. She seems really unhappy.

Maybe take her to the GP? Might she benefit from counselling?

Also the horse riding, I think it would be better for you to see it as something therapeutic that does her the world of good, rather than a privilege to take away from her.

PPs said about helping out at the stables, that sounds like a great idea. It would give her a sense of purpose, the beginnings of a work ethic, and help her stop dwelling on problems. I really wish I had had this opportunity.

She does remind me of me when I was that age. My friendships have always been rather dysfunctional too.

Help her find not only a reason to be alive, but a way to start enjoying it.

I’ve not totally discounting asd just in the past when she was younger she was a lot lore outgoing and sociable hard to explain.

She’s not going horse riding this weekend as she pushed me and would have probably hit me if DH hadn’t of intervened. That’s assault and not to be taken lightly.

She says she doesn’t really talk to anyone online sometimes her BF, mostly draws/listens to music/plays games. Sexuality wise when she was younger she told me she wanted to a boy. We just ran with it bought her traditional boys clothes. Now she says she’s a girl but not a very girlie one. She knows if she were gay it really wouldn’t bother us, I’ve said being happy is the most important thing.

She says no one at school really knows who she is, she doubts her guidance teacher even knows her. Apparently she is very quiet in class, never sticks her hand up with an answer etc. Some teachers said they were shocked when she got high marks on tests etc.

Been reading a lot about undiagnosed autism in teenage girls, she doesn’t fit the criteria. She talked really early and I don’t mean babbled conversations, she drew a face at 18 months old, taught herself to read at age 3 (probably to spite her older sister) by age 6 her reading ability was 12+, she won speech and drama competitions, maths was excellent as well. She loved dinosaurs, then wolves. She played well with her sisters imaginatively, the things she could build were awesome. As I said she’s a talented artist as well.

I am well aware people with ASD can be extremely clever, I may be slightly biased as the children I teach are all severely autistic and non verbal communicators some with LDs as well. They aren’t stupid either, I always say non verbal doesn’t mean non clever.

She’s not spoken to me since she attacked me on Wednesday night I was giving her space to come to me.

If i were you OP I'd give her the option of not going to Orlando. Id sit her down and say that if she really doesn't want to go, if she really thinks it won't be any fun, then she doesn't have to go. Tell her she can stay with grandma/auntie etc, and that you'll take a family friend/cousin/the postman instead, and see what she says.

Sorry, premature post - this could help you work out whether she's just being contrary or whether she's actually deliberately isolating herself.

Completely agree about not going riding, i can't believe so many PP are recommending you respond to physical violence with love bombing.

@ReallyLilyReally
Not going to Florida isn’t an option there is no one to look after her, no grannies/Aunties/friends just DH and I.

I agree there must be a punishment for physical violence. DH has spoken to her and said she had to apologise to me for pushing me and have a talk to me. She has as yet ignored me all weekend.

@sweetkitty - you are probably right re ASC. Parents are the expert in their children etc. But ... I have been a SENDCo & I have worked in special & mainstream schools. For various reasons, when we were exploring diagnoses around my son, I did not see ADHD at all. Never crossed my mind. When we reached multi agency complex cases specialist assessment at the Maudsley in London, he was diagnosed with (among other things) severe ADHD. I can see it now. Not sure why I couldn’t before.

@freddiethegreat I’m not ruling it out though I just can’t see it myself. I’m not an expert the children I work with have severe and complex LDs so maybe I think in my kind she’s not like them if that makes sense.

There’s something though is it bullying/toxic friendships, sexuality or ASD I don’t know I’m at a loss. She’s so deep too she would rather die than talk to someone.

She obviously is struggling somewhere and I don't really know how to help there but the holiday in Orlando. Is it the whole Disney/Universal thing ? I personally would of not wanted to go there at 14. Are there other parts of Florida that are more her thing? At 14 I would of been fascinated by going to Miami Beach because it's the setting for one of the Judy Blume books - random I know but I still 30 years on would be quite interesting in going there (and still zero interest in boring old Disney). I don't think the holiday is the reason for how she is but I get the sense the worry of "she will ruin it" is hanging over your head. Talking to her about Florida and what she might enjoy there could be a starting point for talking about other things.

If you view horse riding as a lovely treat then it does seem logical to take it away as punishment.

But if you view horseriding as providing fresh air, exercise and socialisation, plus the opportunity for a girl who is struggling to regulate herself a bit better then taking it away does certainly punish but not in the way intended.

I obviously don't know if your DD has ASD or not but it's worth noting that Tony Atwood is world expert in autism and he didn't recognise his own son was autistic!

I'm probably way off the mark here OP but you've mentioned a couple of times what your DD1s opinion of it all is. Your DD2 is probably aware that you're discussing her with her older sister and it won't be helping. She may well be thinking that you and DD1 get on so well, she can't even compete so she may as well just be vile to you both to push you away.

@featherquilt i think the issue here is that OP's DD subjected her mother to physical violence. At 14, that is categorically completely unacceptable and needs to be dealt with harshly. She may feel awful, she may be struggling to regulate herself, but she's not 6, and lashing out violently against her parent should draw a more significant punishment than a few nights without her phone.

You are currently in a similar place to where I was about a year and a half ago. I really feel for you-it is hell. Our situation is so much better now but it took a huge amount of love, patience, help of others, research and reading and the passing of time. In saying that, we r still miles away from being what some wd call a well functioning family but we r all surviving the teenage years rather than being pulled under. We can now actually go on holiday together which was unthinkable b4.

My suggestions are as follows:

• read Gabor Mate ‘hold onto your kids’ - he’s also got lots on YouTube
• watch Dan Siegel’s stuff on YouTube on teenage brain development
• read the book ‘Get out of my life - but first take me and Alex into town’
• if poss involve other family or friends to try and ensure there is a strong network of support around her and you. If she’s usually foul at mealtimes or won’t join u she might b more inclined if others r there. We set up regular times wen our DD knew wen to expect grandparents round etc.
• on occasions let her see she is upsetting u but avoid showing too much high level visible distress - she needs to see you can cope in order for her to feel safe.
• writing a letter is a useful way of communicating if she is beyond being able to hold a reasonable discussion.

What you’re going through is really extreme. Some parents look back on the teenage years and have a wry smile about them-I can’t imagine ever doing that.

Do nice stuff to help u to keep going. Make an effort to laugh and let her see that happiness can still exist around her and she can be part of that.

Sending hugs. U r not alone.

It's quite common for teens with asd to question thief sexuality and gender as they struggle to find where they sit in the world.

Also the allowing poor friendships and not having the confidence to seek better ones is a red flag.

Being quiet is often a self esteem thing.

Also being very isolated.

Who knows what is going on but you did need (IMO) and expert to assess her. A clinical psychologist to untangle all that's going on and help her make sense of her own thoughts.

I also work with students with sld/pmld and also have a teen ds with asd.

My advice to explain what is acceptable behaviour wise and have a clearly written reminder.
But also help her develop things she can do when she feels angry or sad or wants to snap. Help her find better ways. She clearly cannot do this for herself atm.

@ReallyLilyReally I absolutely agree that the violence should not go unpunished.

Its the form of punishment that I disagree with - taking away the horse riding if that provides her with an outlet to destress will actually add to the problem.

Not all kids can self regulate as well as we'd like them to be able to, and it's a parent's job to help them find ways of doing so. Having found something that the OP seems to think is helping, it's totally counter productive to then take it away as punishment.

Good advice here.
I have similar age DD. We are also going through a difficult time- very similar story to yours OP. I can’t imagine going on holiday as a family for the foreseeable future as she is so unpleasant to DH and DS

Could she volunteer at the stable? Muck out, help around the place? That could give her a chance to develop herself away from questionable friends. Animal shelters always need help too and can be hugely beneficial to teens.

@Bouledeneige I love your first post, you have it just right and I use this approach with DD aged 15 :-)

Show her you care. As hard as it may be don't talk bad on her friends to her, it may push her to rebel and get closer with them. It may seem strange but something that might be good is something my mum did with me
She bought a notebook and I could write questions or even just rants in there and if I wanted to I could put it in her room and shes respond but I could also just keep it to myself. It was just a way for me to get that hurt inside out.
Encourage her and really show her you love her that's the best fix.