Please please help me to help my DD, I’m desperate.

[sweetkitty]

I’ll try and keep it short, DD2 just turned 14. Tonight it all came to a head and DH had to come between us as she pushed me and was going to hit me.

Over the past maybe 6 months she has been getting increasingly horrid to me. Things like “oh wait until your driving” “yes then I’ll drive away from you” x20 per day. No thanks ever the usual.

She is generally an anti-social nasty person and I think it is stemming from her toxic friendship group. They talk to each other like dirt so then she comes home and talks to her family like dirt. I seem to be the main target but she can be horrid to DH and her siblings. She has one best friend for age 2 but I don’t think she’s a good friend for her, it’s not a typical girlie friendship. The two of them have always been tomboys which is fine but the way they talk to each other is shocking. I suspect DD2 is being bullied in that she is the butt of the nastiness and teasing but won’t leave her best friend as she will be alone.

I’ve tried talking to her but get nowhere. She doesn’t go out with friends, she comes home and would sit in her room on her iPad day and night. Very rarely talks to friends on it either. Getting her to shower is a fight in itself. She says she hates people and is anti-social.

After speaking to DD1 (not at the same school) I think she cannot handle the love and kindness her family show (me especially) as she is getting treated so badly by her friends. She will tell me snippets of being teased for being specky and ginger or weird.

I cannot get her to talk about it and now even if I say hello how are you I’ll get some nasty comment in return. Tonight I had had enough and did shout at her which was when she started swearing at me and pushed me.

I don’t know where to start trying to help her, have spent the night sobbing.

So they are a messed up chaos of hormones. They are finding the transition tough and everything a very reliable always there adult says is annoying. You go into there room for a chat, they ask you to leave. A hug, they resist. They don't want to be closed in and cornered like they are little kids anymore. They don't really care about how you feel - (or only when you cant see) - they are fogged in with their own feelings. They are easily cross, irritated and sulky. And their home is their sanctuary. I don't want to be obliged to do anything I don't feel like doing when I'm home after stressy day of complying at work. Why would your teenager after a stressy compliant day at school - being told what to do all the time by adults? they want to be left to their own devices, to chill, because home is their sanctuary. Like it is yours. Cornering, demanding, wanting stuff on your terms is not appealing and wont bring the best out of them.

So my view is you have to give them air and breathing space so that they communicate when they want to, on their terms, not on yours. You have to learn to compromise and adjust, just as they are growing and changing. Your job as a parent is to help them gain their independence so this is one sign of it. You no longer get to dictate all the terms of your relationship, you both are growing up in this relationship and you will both be feeling your way.

My DS17 has been similar since he turned 12. He doesn't tend to respond well to guilt trips about my feelings. (I don't either really as an adult). So I give him space. We chat at dinner finding what he wants to talk about. We play cards and joke inanely. He clears the table and I flick him with the tea towel. Silliness and lightness.

Tonight we went to McDonalds drive in - his choice - and then we went for a little drive. We chat side by side about what interests him. And little by little information, not asked for, emerges. His views on friendships, teachers, motivation at school. Nothing I would ever get from interrogation over the dinner table.

i also found the things he will do with me. No longer long walks, no trips to the shops. But we both like 10 pin bowling and crazy golf so we do them. I give him the choice and dont impose. They're becoming adults - I wouldn't tell my friends what to do with their evening. He games and stares at his laptop - but he has immense general knowledge about worldwide events so who am I to judge. I spend a lot of time on my laptop and less to show for it.

I encourage him to leave for school on time, wash, do his washing and other chores. But I also learned to let him be. As he does me. And every now and again he blesses me, when I'm least expecting it, with lots of chatter and warmth and fun. On his terms. Welcome to the teenage years. You will both grow.

Oh I know I cannot dictate how she spends her time, I know most teens are plugged in constantly. I just would want her to go out and socialise now and again with RL friends. But respect it’s her choice.

She has 2 sisters close in age one who shares her love of horses which is good.
My worry is she depressed and hiding bullying that’s there’s a deeper issue in all this nastiness directed at me.

I would be available for her a lot of the time so if she wants to talk she can do, but without forcing it. Don't parent her in the same way you did as a child. It's all about keeping lines of communication open at this age. Try to see things through her eyes.

@sweetkitty

I don’t have any advice but just want to say you sound like a very sweet mum.

Find the non pressured spaces to let it come out. My DS was bullied. He never really spoke to me about it - but I went to a teacher he respected and told him what I'd accidentally seen. My DS opened up to him and we found a way through. To this day my DS doesn't know I was involved - as was my DD - with school about it.

I know that wont give you any comfort. Bad behaviour is not always an indicator of bullying. It could just be friends you dont particularly like and teenage mardiness. I found out from witnessing by accident a couple of events and finding my DS crying after school - plus he had no social outside school for over a year. It broke my heart. Sorry no use I know.

My DD had bitchy friends who I didnt love. I just talked to her about resilience and standing up for herself and staying away from toxicity. Being good in her own company and seeking out a variety of people as alternatives to those who pissed her off. Through telling her my stories of growing up in an all girls school. And saying what I did. Without necessarily talking to her about her situations.

Do make enquiries with the pastoral team at school - just that you're worried she is unhappy, how are her friendship groups etc.
Have a thick skin and know that this too shall pass...
Separate her behaviours from her personality - you've used some words like 'nasty' and 'horrid' which sound like they're about her rather than her behaviour, if you see what I mean.
Pushing others away is usually a sign of being unhappy with oneself - don't take it personally.
See if you can find a joky way of dealing with moody comments - some odd phrase. 'Oh you are savage!', 'Absolutely!' or whatever works.
Praise and recognition go a long way. We think we do this, but probably not enough especially for self-doubters. 'I do love you, you know'. 'You're great at that!'.
Every now and then, don't be afraid to shout her out for unacceptable behaviour either - then walk away and ignore her for a good while so she knows you really are cross. Later you can ask -'Do you understand why I was so cross about x?'.

What are the consequences for her horrible behaviour? Has there ever been any?

Oh not one of these threads again. . Yes, punishment will really work. ffs

@HannaYeah thank you what a lovely thing to say usually on MN you’ve is the some sort of savagery but thanks

It’s not the nasty comments I suspect the bullying from it’s from the way I and others have heard how her friends talk to each other and little snippets.

I’m glad your marriage is reasonably good; a stable environment for the kids.

The horsey stuff sounds great! Another stable environment, ho ho.

I would definitely arrange to go into school and talk to pastoral about her behaviour at home to see if they can shine a light on what her friendship is like in school.

I would be worried she will deliberately try to ruin the holiday for everyone there. But if everyone is on board you can just totally ignore her moods and everyone else stays upbeat.

Ds2 used to be a right grumpy arse, I made it very clear that he was to keep his moods to himself, that when he is sad or angry that trying to make everyone feel the same way was unacceptable. But he was younger and so now as a teen he knows that we won't spend any time with him if he chooses to be an arsehole.

I also told him I would walk through fire to get to him, that myself and Dh, his Dad, care more for him than anyone in the world and we just wanted to see him happy. That he could choose to let things go and move on.

This might be completely off base and I do have a habit of thinking this about everyone, but...
She sounds a lot like me when I was her age and I have asd which was only diagnosed as an adult. I was super clever (not a boast, often wish I wasn't), didn't have many nice friends, didn't like being touched, didn't do much of my own volition, was depressed or anxious the majority of the time and really couldn't cope with my parents.

Many apologies if this is completely not right but I thought I should mention it as many young girls are missed.

I’ve posted a new thread on here as my 13 year old dd is exactly the same with attitude
It doesn’t matter what we do taking away her phone etc is water off a ducks back
Last night her phone was confiscated I know to me she was in her room using one of my old phones for instragram and snap chat
It’s so hard to deal with this disrespectful behaviour

Oh This morning I gathered all my old phones together and put them completely away , I was so annoyed when I caught her last night . Tbh though it’s very difficult but all part of growing up the only difference being I wouldn’t have dared to back chat or be rude to my parents

Look around in your area for equine therapy - often people will say stuff to horses that they wouldn't say to people.

Trying to communicate effectively with a 14 year old can be very difficult and frustrating. I have had this very same problem with my Dd which started at around that age. The best thing I could suggest is to reiterate clear boundaries and if necessary clear consequences. It has to be, at times explained in a very basic way, at their level and sometimes written down for them. (If verbal communication is limited .
for example .
If you have nothing nice to say, don’t say anything at all. If you feel angry and aggressive , go to your room until this passes.
We expect you to..... wash daily, keep room tidy, be civil to others, do not show aggression etc.
I would use consequences depending on the action too. So maybe minor, daily issues could have a consequence of 1 day without iPad. Disruption during a meal, take her away from the situation and have her sit in the car
/bedroom until finished.
Serious behaviour like hitting could be her not going horse riding for a week.
I don’t agree with the love bombing at this time. Tell her you love her, and that you are always here for her, maybe drop a little note in her room for her to find but give her a little space to allow her to try to understand her feelings more. I did this very same thing with my dd and she actually began to drop me little notes too.

Hormones, peer pressure etc. is a very difficult thing for teens to deal with and they tend to take the frustration out on the person closest to them.
hope this helps. I’ve spend many nights in the same situation and this helped me cope better with the daily dramas

oddgirlout I also wondered if that might be a possibility. Not in terms of the behaviours; teenagers can be very difficult regardless of whether there's a 'reason'. But one or two things made me wonder: resistance to showering, dislike of being touched, struggling to put in social boundaries, strengths with visual stuff, difficult friendships, over-reliance on one friend and a strong dislike of social situations/people in general. Girls often mask their needs very well through childhood but problems emerge in teenage years when social situations get more complex and pressures in school are greater. Might be completely off-base, but thought I'd mention it.

I do have one suggestion. When you try to get her talking ask simple questions that don’t require more than yes or no.

Like:
Bad day?
Feel down?
Did you see “friend”?

Also when it’s quiet you can say, “I was really shocked you pushed me. That isn’t like you. You must be feeling really badly to have done that. Did something bad happen at school?” Again, it’s a yes or no question. “Teachers or other kids?”

I just remember as a kid that no one asked the right questions, the common sense ones.

Also, I really did better as a kid if I had something to look forward to so make sure you have scheduled things for her in the near and far future. Horses this weekend, trip somewhere she likes this summer, that kind of thing.

@sweetkitty if her BF is under CAMHS for anxiety and self harm don’t underestimate the responsibility she will feel towards her friend to keep her safe. Speaking from personal experience this can have a massive knock on effect because she will think she is solely responsible and no one else can understand and the pressure it puts on their own mental health is huge.

Doing things outside school, removing phones etc at night and not letting her sit isolated in her room even though that’s what she’ll tell you she wants to do will all help. Other than that pick your battles, try to let the hurtful stuff wash over you and try not to sling it back because that won’t make you feel good either. Speak to the pastoral team at school. She definitely won’t be the only one with problems and they can be really helpful. Our school had someone that the kids could meet up with every week to just talk through things that were causing problems and that was helpful when she couldn’t talk to us because she hated us so much and we were the worst parents ever. Also know that it is usually the mother that gets the worst of it for whatever reason, it’s not just you.

Thanks loads of suggestions and food for thought. I haven’t seen or spoken to her today, I ended up coming home early from work after being sick. The combination of hardly any sleep plus crying loads triggered a migraine and I’ve been in bed most of the day. DH spoke to her and told her she crossed a line and her behaviour is very worrying. There must something going on and we’ll get to the bottom of it. No horse riding or iPad this weekend.

I’m a SEN teacher don’t think she’s ASD, far too clever across the board. Hit her milestones way ahead of time, she was reading age 3 and won competition ms for speech and drama. I do think there is wider issues here.

@sweetkitty I would push the stables as much as possible. My DD started spending one whole day a weekend helping out from when she was 13 and it’s massively helpful for moods:
physical exercise outside with no time for screens
Unconditional love from ponies (often dogs around too)
A new group of friends
‘Scary horsey ladies’ who take no shit and won’t put up with rudeness
An opportunity for you to pick her up and chat in the car about the positive stuff she’s been doing
A chance to do something where she can’t be compared to older siblings

I honestly think volunteering at the stables has saved my relationship with DD - now 16!

I’m going to get them to volunteer at the stables once DD2 turns 12 in July they can both go together then.

I told her I’m not doing all the nice things I do for her until she starts appreciating them. I leave work early at the certain time so I can pick her up from school so she doesn’t have to walk in the rain. No thanks Mum just abuse as soon as she’s in the car. I’m spending a fortune on riding lessons for her never a thanks. She actually means about only going once a week. Moaning she doesn’t want to go on the holiday of a lifetime to Florida. She’s utterly lazy she has a lizard and doesn’t bother feeding it.

Also very nasty to our pets which is a worry don’t know if it’s to get at me but she’ll say things like Die dog or the cat is fat and gay. Totally unnecessary

I’m a SEN teacher don’t think she’s ASD, far too clever across the board.. ?? I don't think it's impossible to be highly intelligent and on the spectrum ...

Not to push the point but I have asd and an Oxbridge degree (plus masters, plus PhD ongoing) intelligence has nothing to do with it.

OP if you can access her Social media you may get clues as to how awful the bullying really is .. she maybe down playing it as many bullies do their worst sat behind a smartphone ,tablet etc ...

Or there could be something else happening as well .. please do check it is really scary to find out what happens on the internet .. I have 4 kids and i have been shown some awful things via the kids and school workshops.

Not saying she is being bullied or abused online but it does not hurt to check 🤷🏻‍♀️