Is this considered emotional abuse?

[Lanny81]

Morning all,
Ill get straight into it and try to keep it short...so my Daughter has been been in a very on/off relationship with this lad for 6 months now. Things moved quickly at first and it wasn't long before they were a couple. He seemed like a really well rounded, hard working, lovely guy at first. Doesn't do drugs, he has goals etc and thats what stood out to DD.
Hes her first proper relationship and first sexual partner (shes almost 18). Anyway, all through their "relationship" hes been awful to her. Dumped her 6 times completely out of the blue, with different excuses each time. Then 2 days, or a week later hes begging for her back. She has been crushed every time. He breaks promises, cancels plans, wouldnt come to our place, and then there were the other girls...hes not physically cheated as far as DD knows but hes messaged them etc.
Sounds like a typical "too young for a relationship" thing doesn't it but hes been nasty in other ways...comparing her to other girls,(one time he was doing it for iver half and hour, she mentioned another guy and he punched her on the leg and told her to get out of the house. She got her bag to leave but he went running after her sayimg he was so sorry), making her want to change her appearance, saying shes not curvy enough then in the next breath shes got cellulite and so they should go to the gym together.
Hes messaged one of her best friends and told her hes always wanted her..he said he had done it to piss my DD off.
If she puts something on social media and another guy laughs or likes it hes accusing her of messaging that guy and so she has to delete stuff off social media to save arguments.
They had split up for just over a month and she was doing fab but he was soo bloody jealous to a point where he was getting his friends to watch her...one time 2 of his friends hit this guy who was having a conversation with my DD. She says he had nothing to do with it and was totally down to his friends. Bull!
She makes excuses for his bad behaviour ALL THE TIME. Makes excuses for him dumping her , stuff like "hes busy, hes having a hard time, hes stressed"
When they split I messaged him asking her to leave her alone and stop messing with her head. He blocked me! No reply, nothing. I was perfectly nice to him even though i felt like ripping his balls off but he told my DD i had "had a right go at him" SUCH A LIE! So hes got me out of the way now..could this be the start of the isolation phase?? Because theres only me who will front him about how hes treat her. And shes been awful towards me lately. Like she hates me. I cant even mention his name without being told to shut it.
So anyway hes managed to worm his way back in, just as she started to move on...it was "I love you so much, Im sorry, it won't happen again I promise". And shes gone back!!! But i have info from her best friend saying that theyve been arguing already because of his lies. She got up to leave and he was like no im sorry, please stay bla bla bla.
Hes also told her shes to start saving money at his house. Shes to save £100 a month out of her wages. No idea why shes to save it at his house as shes got a savings account but Im not happy about it. What happens when the split again (is going to happen without a doubt!). Shes got to go back to get her money back.
Her mates HATE him, I hate him and were tryimg to back off an leave her to it but really we all want to step in and stop whats going on.
Any advice please im out if my mimd with worry xx

I’d say it’s way beyond emotional abuse. It’s manipulation, coercion etc. What does he offer her? I don’t think you can stop them seeing each other but I do think you should have a conversation with Dd and say why you are so concerned. Does she have low self esteem as I can’t imagine why she would accept being treated like this!

Red flags everywhere!! Please help your daughter to realise that what this boy is doing is wrong, so that in the future she doesn't settle for similar relationships

Hi guys.
Thank you for your replies.
Ive sat her down multiple times and spoken to her and told her about the red flags and to some extent she listened. She seemed to be getting over him, even met someone else but hes been scared off by him and gis mates.. but now she shuts me down straight away. Its as if this time around (since they got back together last week) I literally cannot mention his name. Not even in a good way (not that Ive got anything good to say about him). Im thinking hes told her to keep their relationship to herself 😖.
Im trying to be supportive and nice and its bloody hard but the more I push and get on at her shes going to rebel and pull away. Possibly trying to prove me wrong.
Its definitely emotional abuse and manipulation. 100%. Ive spoken to a great advice line today who have confirmed this.
They have said that at that age he may not actually be intending on doing it BUT its still no excuse. And its showing his character, who he is as a person. And boy does he think hes billy big bollocks!
They've said her confidence will be low but to us (family and friends) she will appear normal...and this is why she thinks she can't get any better than him.
We cant slate him as that will just push her closer to him.

99% of people in this situation actually know they are in it but they feel stuck because she will think she can't get better. She thinks its love but its not.
Weve just got to be there for her, if she mentions him change the subject and dont speak about him. Once she knows shes got nothing to rebel against she will be wondering why. At the moment it feels like the forbidden love and she gets a kick out of rebelling against us but she will lose all enjoyment if we act like we dont care

Morning guys,
Ok so just an update. DD is still with this guy and she tells me everything is going well this time around. She seems really happy BUT theres more red flags popping up all the time and I wouldnt know about any of them if it werent for her best friend telling me.
On Monday morning I got a phone call from her best friend. She usually messages me so thought it was odd that she was calling me. DD had stayed at her boyfriends house for a few days and had been going to work from his. On Sunday she had called her best friend as her boyfriend had gone missing for ages (he had apparently only gone to the shop) with DDs bank card...
She had tried calling him, no answer. Something made her look at her online banking and she discovered that £60 had been taken out of her account in 2 transactions - £20 first then £40. She had sent him to the shop for chocolate, not to withdraw money.
When he finally came back, he handed her £57 and told her that was what she had to live off for the rest of the month until her next payday!! Well I hit the roof! How dare he tell her what to do with her money!! 😡
Shes still got money in her account and apparently hes just teaching her how to budget (she knows how to bloody budget!) but this is not on!!
Hes also got her a savings tin at his house which she has to put £100 a month in. Hes told her that everytime she puts £100 in, he will put £25 in to boost her savings. Hes "conveniently" lost his bank card...
Shes just started her driving lessons and we had an agreement that she would give me and her Dad £100 a month (to save for her weekly driving lessons) rather than paying board. But she won't do it now because that would be £200 a month out of her apprentice wage - £100 to us, £100 to him. Which would leave her with just over £300 for the month to live on.
Her Dad hit the roof when I told him and I had to physically stop him from going up to the house. Hes not well as it is so I couldn't let him go kicking off.
Other red flags are that shes not been going out, keeps turning down plans with friends or she arranges to go out then cancels because hes not going.
She usually has her nails, eyelashes/eyebrows done once a month but she hasnt even mentioned it this time.
She darent spend any money.
Im pretty sure she had to ask him if it was ok for her to order her provisional licence too but thats another story...
Im trying to bite my tongue but finding it very difficult. I shouldn't know all this and don't want to drop her friend in it as she will go mad and not tell her friend anything again.
What the hell do I do?

What do his parents say about the situation? X

Yes, he’s abusive. There are organisations with targeted info for young people on abusive relationships, they might have info for family too.

Hi Strawberry
His parents adore her and his mum is well aware of him messaging other girls etc and wasnt happy about it but never confronted him as my Daughter told her in confidence and she didn't want to rock the boat. She even told my DD infront of him when they last split up, that she should not get back with him because she deserves so much better.
As for all the other things that have have been going on - his parents have no idea.

Without a doubt that is Coercive Control which is a criminal offence, and as for his friends watching her it's certainly classed as Stalking which is also a criminal offence. Your daughter making excuses for his behaviour is normal (unfortunately) for this sort of thing and try not to get too upset if she cannot see the severity of the situation and feels like she cannot just leave him. I wrote my Master's thesis on Domestic Abuse and Coercive Control and this is something that is fairly common. I don't want to cause you to panic but I'm in agreement with the rest of the thread I'd suggest just trying to make her see how much of a monster he is and hopefully she will be able to walk away xx

Reading this made me cry, you could be describing my relationship and I'm in my 40's. Everyone has been telling me for years that he's no good but it's only reading this that has made me see it for what it is! I have no advice but please please try and get your daughter away from him, she's only young and shouldn't be having to suffer this or having this sort of behaviour normalised. Big hugs to you it must be awful for you as well Op

@donnalou76 please try to take your own advice and get away too as you shouldn’t be having to suffer it either

I'm trying to do just that, just seems to be 2 steps forward 1 step back all the time. It absolutely breaks my heart to hear of someone so young and full of promise being slowly broken down like this ( just like I was)

I think it's time to get the parents involved and tell them everything. They can get the money back for her and also keep a closer eye on things whilst they are at the house.

Have you considered that this situation is more serious than respect for confidentiality? Perhaps his parents should know what sort of weirdo they've brought up?
I vaguely remember going out with tossers like him when I was in my teens and their shockhorror when they told me how I'd done something wrong and I said I'd put them out of their misery and finished with them. It just seemed to me that they were treating me like they had been allowed to treat their mother and had a few lessons to learn in RL.
If he's controlling your DD in respect of money the mind boggles about other more personal and insidious ways he is controlling her.

It is without a doubt an abusive relationship, sadly there is nothing you can do except be there for her.

@donnalou76 I am so sorry to hear about your situation!😭 but im glad that my post has made you see it for what it is. Are you/have you been experiencing the same things as my Daughter throughout your relationship? Did it start out the same way? Loving, attentive then dumped for no reason, other girls on the scene etc?
It is sooo hard for me as her Mum to watch whats going on and knowing it isnt right but shes totally blinded by "love". Him helping her save money is apparently because hes trying to help her budget(its actually control), him messaging other girls is because they've come onto him "apparently" (so now she hates any other girl that goes near him eeven when she has proof that hes iniated contact and has nearly ended up fighting because of this), him being jealous is because he "loves" her (he actually just sees her as a possession) her not going out at weekends anymore is because shes bored with going out (no its because he doesnt want her to)...these are the excuses she keeps making for him.
If she says a guy on the TV is fit he gets the right arse on. Last time they split (for a month) he said he would kill any guy she moved on with yet he didnt want her! If they do go out its never together. He ignores her all night and has other girls all over him in front of my DD, then lies about it saying they know his Mum or they're family friends which is a huge lie. But DD has to leave and go home with him after all that....he wont go on double dates with her best friend and her fella, he doesn't hold DDs hand in public, walks 10 paces in front of her. Her excuse for that is "because he dont like walking slow and doesnt like crowds".
His reasons for keep ending it are hes too busy, hes stressed, doesnt want a relationship bla bla bla. Then he suddenly isnt busy, does want a relationship, isnt stressed anymore when he wants her back 2 days/a week/ month later.
She tries telling me that hes just wanting whats best for her and she feels shes a better person but she was a better person before!

Wow, this is just awful OP. I’m another here that thinks this has gone beyond respecting the friends confidentiality. If boyfriend is still living at home with his parents and that is where he’s “saving” her money then I think it’s reasonable to involve his parents. I think it’s more important for you to get your DD away from this boy rather than not rocking the boat. Telling his parents will ensure that the relationship ends, whether they do anything with the information or not. I know your DD will be very angry with you and you will have to deal with that. But this will be shaping your DD’s idea of what is normal in a relationship and damaging her self worth and you need to put a stop to it.

Lanny81
This is exactly how it is and how it started for me! Other women, jealous, controlling behaviour, being dumped constantly. I've had a complete breakdown because of it all but every single time I walk away he wears me down until I go back. If your daughter accepts this as normal behaviour then she will be trapped in this vicious cycle for a long time. It must be absolutely heartbreaking for you to have to watch! Have you tried getting outside professionals to talk to her? Maybe someone who has no connection to the situation therefore nothing to gain by splitting them up may help her gain more clarity? Look up the freedom program online. When I think of your daughter going through this it breaks my heart that someone so young is having their mind destroyed in this way and I also see what happened to myself. I really do hope you manage to make her see that this isn't normal and it's definitely not love

Hi Rollergirl
I have tried and tried to make her realise to a point where we have nearly come to blows. Each time they break up Ive begged her not to go back, given her the cold hard FACTS of why she shouldn't go back and even though hes broken her heart for the 20th time, whether it be because hes ended it or hes been found out messaging other girls, she STILL defends him!
When they're together and things start going wrong, I know because theres a pattern in his behaviour. A pattern Ive come to know because its been going on for 6+ months.He will not see her as much, cancels plans at last minute, lies, makes excuses up as to why he cant see her. She starts to withdraw, sits up in her room etc. She KNOWS hes going to end it again but when I call him out...BOOM! She explodes with me! I might say somethimg like, oh how come youve not seen ** for 2 weeks? And then the excuses start.."Mum hes busy" or "Hes having a hard time". Its usually revolving around pity...so she knows its going to end but he gives her excuses that make her feel sorry for him and let him off the hook with his shitty behaviour, probably to keep her going back. A classic trick of a narcissist ive been told btw.
His parents are always at work (they work long hours and shifts). I have thought about contacting them but ive bollocked him in person. Infact It was more than a bollocking...i went up to his house with DD and threatened to pull his fing balls off. I really lost my shit with him, i exploded. And that was THE FIRST TIME ID EVER MET HIM!!!
Obviously It didnt work because he ended it another 3 times with her after that so if I cant get through to him then hes going to go crazy if I involve his parents! He probably won't listen to them anyway if he wont listen to me. And the last thing I want is to lose my DD - because if I do that she will take his side. Yeah she might only hate me for a while but it wont split them up - it will just make her closer to him and thats the last thing I want.
Theres something else thats bothering me too..the guy she was moving on with before she got back with him. Her bf didnt know that she had moved on because this guy was coming to pick her up from ours and her bf lives 25 min drive away (he doesnt drive). She did sleep with this other guy (fair play, she was single and I was happy for her) but this poor guys been approached on a night out by these random lads who claim to know DDs (then ex) bf. He got asked if it was true about him and DD and poor lad had to deny it because he also knows DDs bf....really well. He didnt know these guys though. But they left it at that thankfully. The other guy came to see my DD to tell her and said he doesnt want to be sneaking about as he really liked her. However, that same night her bf messaged her saying he wanted her back, crying sayimg hes realised how.much she meant to him bla bla. Next thing u know, the other guys blocked her on everything, totally out of blue. Coincidence? So shes got back with the bf. Im SURE he knows but for some reason hes not letting on. Why want her back if hes knows? Whats his reasons? And its funny because hes started being more controlling since getting back together this time. Its got worse

@donnalou76
OMG it sounds so bloody identical! How long has your situation been going on?!
I really don't want DD to go through this much longer! 6 months have been bad enough. Another of his pity excuses is because hes been hurt in the past or his exes were crazy...weve been told that it was HIM who made his last gf crazy which I can believe! Because behind every crazy woman is a man that made her that way...oh and btw, his ex still drops him a message every now and then and he also unblocks her when he ends things with my DD...
My DDs best male friend (yes she still has a male friend but doesnt see him anymore) has told DDs best girl friend that my DD is a pyhsco...she was NEVER like this before. But he also acknowledges that she was the most placid person ever before she met this dickhead. So because of him my DD is being branded a bloody phsyco, probably because of all the fights shes nearly got in to with other girls because of HIM.
Ive spoken to Family Lives who have confirmed my worries on this but they told me to stay vigilant, make sure she has a support network around her (make sure he doesn't cut it off) but theres nothing I/we can really do apart from hope she realises what hes doing isnt healthy or normal.
Don't get me wrong, hes not nasty to her verbally but his actions are. He says things to criticize her but in a jokey way so she doesn't get mad with him xx

@Sarahdmcc
Hi Sarah. Thanks for your very useful info on this. I've looked at Coercive Control before when trying to fatham out what was going on.
At first I thought that it was just a case of young, dumb, full of come, too young for a relationship or not 100% ready (on his part) etc then a friend said hang on, it sounds more than that! She said emotional abuse and pointed out some key clues and I was like OMG yes!
But after reading up on both emotional abuse/coercive control, on paper they looked darker and more sinister than what was going on..as I said before I thought he was just being a bit of a f**kboy like a lot of lads his age and girls fall foul of these type of lads all the time.
But as the jealousy started, and her wanting to have lip fillers etc (because he oogles girls with big lips, big arses etc), thats when I started to get worried. I just kept thinking to myself...why would she want to change herself for HIM? Shes always been happy with her body - size 6/8, hourglass figure etc. Then I realised that its because all the other girls he had been messaging were big lipped, big boobed, big bums...and so ultimately my DD must have thought that he would love her more if she looked like that??
Anyway on paper it does still look sinister..and while there are things that are standing out it still looks way darker than whats actually going on..but then again she wont tell me cos she knows I will freak out!
As far as Im aware, theres no threats, no witholding basic needs etc but i guess there won't be in the early stages??
Im tipping it starts off as small things, making out that everything he does is because "he cares about her and trying to make her a better person??"
My question is,is this just the beginning? Will things get worse if she doesn't get out now?
How do things escalate?

I have no specialist knowledge, maybe @Sarahdmcc would know-

Would it work to meet up with the two young people and his parents and discuss what is reasonable? For example, the money situation is terrible and hard to justify. Maybe he'd show his true colours and Dd would see that him controlling her money is outrageous.

Obviously the other stuff is too, but the money might be the hardest thing for him to wriggle out of.

Hi!
Im not meant to know about the money thing, well I know about the savings tin at his house but Im in the dark (or so she thinks) about him taking money out of her account without asking and telling her shes to live off that for the rest of the month.
Her friend told me because it had obviously rattled my DD for her to have been complaining to her about it in the first place.
You see, Im the biggest obstacle if you like in their relationship...I call him out and im not scared of him. Ive lost my shit with him.over his behaviour. But this was before the proper control had started (money, her not going out etc). I bollocked him over his "other women and him dumping her all the time. He was fine with me after that and apologized but since thrn hes blocked me. So i cant message him...exactly what he wants.
His parents work shifts so I never know when theyre in and its doubtful that he will consider them sitting down and having this conversation.
And ive got to tread carefully because if I let on that I know stuff I shouldn't, DD will know exactly where its come from, she will go mad with her bestie and probs not tell her stuff again so then Im completely in the dark 😭

I would minimise your interaction with him. Focus on getting specialist advice on handling this, eg from a charity.

Info (for schools/colleges) from a teachers’ / lecturers’ union - DD’s college may well have a designated person leading on this kind of thing.

www.atl.org.uk/Images/relationship-abuse-between-young-people-information-for-schools-nov-13.pdf

At the end are links to lots of other stuff, including info targeted at teens.

DD’s friend might find it useful too.