I need help wording this effectively but sensitively to a difficult teenager

[Ladybirdman]

My DD was always a good, helpful, sweet natured girl who doted on her younger brother. Two years ago she changed and became moody, sullen, over whelmingly negative. She has had counselling to help her deal with negative thoughts but remains moody and not very nice at home. She is 17.

She does nothing at all to help around the house. When I ask her directly (say to empty the dishwasher) she will do so resentfully and with bad Grace and only ever when asked. The other night we went out to dinner, she was reasonably okay (she doesn't offer conversation but will respond when spoken to) and at the end of the evening I gave my 10 year old a hug as he said something funny. DD got in a strop. You love him more than me type things. I said you know I love you, I worry about you always, i drive you everywhere and I always make sure there is nutritious food available for you. When you don't think I love you remember those things say "I love you and think about you all the time". Its like trying to deal with a cactus. She sulked for the journey home and closed the door in my face when we came in and refused to look at me for the rest of the evening.

I want to say: buck up you selfish, spoiled girl. I love you, I am here for you always but it's a two way street. You need to pull your weight and not think you're the only one who needs a bit of support around the house. You are well loved and cared for.

BUT she is inclined towards sinking into a black mood and I don't want to be callous while at the same time feel she needs to grow up and stop being so bloody self absorbed.

Because she is a sensitive teenager with a history of low mood and counselling how do I talk to her? I feel like I am failing her because she says I am but I also feel like I am failing her for allowing her to believe at 17 that she is extra special. In my honest opinion she needs to cop herself on. My mother says it's because I always treated her as though she was extra special and now she absorbs all of my time and energy rather than it being shared with her sibling (and my mother is my DD's No1 fan so that was a shock to hear).

I am at a loss here. I have hated every bit of parenting her for the past two years and I don't have a clue how to do this. She is constantly negative. Everything is worse for her. Everything. Well of course, in reality, it's not, she is healthy and clever and pretty and I want to say this but I fear she may be a little manipulative and will only allow the picture to be painted with her as a hard done by victim.

I recognise how hard this is on you. Have you tried pouring out positive stuff on her? Thank yous for everything she does, targetted praise even if it feels absurd (so
i say ‘It was thoughtful of you to empty the bath’ - despite the floor being awash, towels everywhere etc. Offer hugs. Beg for hugs. Tell her she’s sharp or observant or empathetic (yes, I know...). Outweigh everything you ask her to do or that she sees as negative with neutral or positive stuff. Also the help of other adults, as others have said, is useful in making them feel appreciated.

I have hated every bit of parenting her for the past two years and I don't have a clue how to do this.

sounds like it could have become a bit of a vicious circle tbh.

Your ds made you laugh and got a hug and told he was funny (and loved and liked, subtext) when she reached out (in her ungainly teenage way) she got told that you do the absolute basics of parenting for her and therefore she should be grateful and know she's loved. I can see why this would upset a sensitive teenager.

I realise how tough her teenage moods must be but now you are stuck in a pattern of loving but not liking her very much. She senses that you hate parenting and don't like her (whilst you apparently do like your ds and show this) and this makes her feel more and more down and moody.

Instead of the "tough love" tell it like it is approach, which I think will only make her more miserable. Can you find some things to like about her? Praise her, spend time with her and let her know that you actually value her as a person? Tbh I think telling her "I do the basics so get on with it" was a bit of a shitty answer and I'd have been miserable too.
Sorry, that's harsh I know and as my dc aren't teens yet I'm not qualified to talk about it really so feel free to ignore. I was a sensitive, hard to like, prone to depression teen so can see things from her perspective a bit.

Read Systemic Parenting by Mark Gaskill. Fantastic insight into family systems and how to unpick them. The upshot is than when there's an issue with a teenager, you have to look at the whole family system. Not that the teenager has no responsibilty for the current state of affairs, but they live within the family system you created and there will be responsibility elsewhere too. Seriously read it... It is very useful. Changed my life x

Ask her why she thinks you love him more than her. Ask her what makes her think you don't love her. All the practical stuff you do for her is not proof of love, it's irrelevant. But maybe getting her to really think and question herself will help her see she doesn't actually have an argument.

This has been a really brilliant thread in reflecting my own parenting of teens, so thank you to everyone!

To op, I can feel your pain, but you can turn this around. Kids really like to spend time with their parents in a 'not being parented' way....so doing an activity where all you focus on is the thing you're doing, so swimming, or a game of cards, or walking in the woods, or art and crafty type stuff, or watching a footie match.

Is there anything at all that you might enjoy doing together that can help?

I hope things improve for you both x

@Theflying19 thanks for that recommendation

Mine isn't that old yet so I'm saying this from my perspective of how I felt when I was younger

I agree with the others that driving her around and cooking and things wouldn't make me feel loved (and still don't as an adult. Funny really cos it's one of the thing my ex used to site that he loves me). I wanted to feel loved and secure send I didn't and still don't feel loved. My mum was never one for hugging. I couldn't talk to her and still can't. I meant it when I said you don't love me or you love my sister more. I was always seen as the difficult one I think. And I know I still am underneath even when we are on an even keel. It's just another perspective. Don't know if any of this is the case here

But I was (am?) A sensitive person
I would take things and gestures to heart

Everyone's different I guess

I really feel for you Op it's tough parenting teenagers! We've had problems similar to yours with our Ds for ages now but we are making progress now. He wouldn't really participate in family life except under duress it was like having a moody lodger. What's worked is (as pp said) going back to toddler stuff and positive parenting.

We realised the only attention he ever got was negative, not performing in school, messy room, barely managing conversations at mealtimes etc. So we set out to praise everything we could - problem was there wasn't anything to praise (which was a shocking and really sad realisation).

So we've engineered them, kind of, we thought of anything and everything he enjoys that we could get him to do which was useful, for him it's cooking he enjoys it but would never volunteer to do it. So we suggested on his day when he's home early from college he cooks dinner, every week, anything he likes, he just needs to choose and let me know what it is so I can include ingredients in my normal shopping.

And it's working he's interacting for the hour or so he's cooking asking my advice or where things are and of course we are enthusiastic about the food (fortunately he's pretty good!) and it's having a knock on effect, we've been finding tv shows he likes too so he'll come and watch tv with us rather than hiding in his room. We are super positive about everything he says or does and the more we praise the better he is. And in general he's obviously much happier much more chatty and involved in family life.

Just to be clear we are not saps, we aren't fawning over him constantly or gushing over him putting a sock in a laundry basket (not that he does - slowly slowly right?) but the atmosphere is now positive encouragement rather than what have you done now? He still has firm boundaries too but we are finding we are getting much more respect and a few thank you's along the way too.

I'm not saying this approach will definitely work for you but I do know how easy it is to get in the habit of being negative constantly with your child, but it's also just a habit and if you can change it to a positive one (and it does take effort I know) things can improve dramatically in quite a short time. Sorry that was so long! Good luck

I "changed" when I was a teenager, because I developed anxiety and depression. I am now 29, and all my family will accept is that I am not a nice, friendly person, and that I am negative and miserable all the time.

Whenever I mentioned my mental health to my mum I get told to get a grip.

I once asked her did she never notice anything wrong when I was a teenager, because I feel like it happened so gradually that I didn't even realise I had a problem - and she said no, because all teens are like that.

They're not.

It sounds to me like your daughter - like me - has deeper issues that normal teenage behaviour.

You need to get to the bottom of it, and if she won't talk to you, get her to go and talk to her GP about how she's feeling.

I wish my mum had made me do that in my teenage years, because I'm now almost 30 and feel like I've missed an entire decade of my life due to something that should have been addressed by my parents (now, I am too scared to seek help myself. I don't know why. I want to feel better.)

Please don't assume she's bratty, badly behaved, has a negative attitude etc. That may be true, but there is ALWAYS a REASON for it, and that is what needs to be uncovered.

I also agree that "I drive you places and give you nutritious food" is an absolutely shite attempt at comforting your child. Wow, there's a cucumber in the fridge, the Waltons are jealous of the love in this house.

Your daughter is a struggling teenager with decaying mental health at a very difficult time in her life and her mother prefers her younger brother and thinks feeding her is enough of a proclamation of love. No wonder she's miserable.

If I were your DD, and I remember those years too well, I would want you to tell me straight up what I was doing wrong and how you felt about it. But I also think you should set up a positive system to reward her when she's nice. I use sticker chats with my kids but obviously they're younger than her so maybe allow her extra scene time or you'll help her with her homework. Something of a bargin.

Also I wouldn't stress about serious mental health problems. We all have our ups and downs and I don't know your situation but telling her she's special like that will not improve your situation.

ha! AuntyElle: Stop Projecting.
FYI: my little one is the one who gets bullied.
By the controlling & over emotional middle one.
Middle one means well, he adores little brother, but OMG, does he get obsessive.

I'm trying to give little one various tools & skills to not engage in the drama. To learn how to just observe & not feed the high emotions & demands for attention.

OP: Every day is a fresh start. Lots of ideas here. I recommend start with the easy ones.

@ColaFreezePop Common or not, it's a terrible thing to say imo and I would never say it to my own daughter. In fact, I'd never say it to anyone I loved. Quite frankly I don't much like my mum a lot of the time but I wouldn't dream of saying it because she's my mum and it's a vile thing to say to someone. It massively impacted my self esteem and led to lots of issues in my teens and early twenties.

Saying I love you but I don't always like how you behave really isn't that unusual. It's not a vile thing to say. In most cases it's a perfectly valid comment on someone's behaviour.

You don't have to like someone all of the time. Love doesn't depend on being liked. Love for your children should be unconditional. That's what that statement is trying to say; no matter what you do I'll always love you. I think you have totally misinterpreted it peaches.

But I can see why someone would misinterpret it. If they're not confident and not secure in themselves anyway then they probably will take it to heart. And if they're not shown enough love to start with

Or if someone just says I don't like someone for example (rather than I love but don't like your behaviour)

That's not what she said. She said - one more than one occasion - "I love you but I don't always like you" and "I love you but I don't like you very much". I'm now a parent myself and she said one day when my daughter had had a typical toddler tantrum "you always love your children but sometimes you really don't like them". I don't stop liking my daughter when she throws a tantrum. Do you really stop liking your loved ones when they behave - temporarily - in a way you would prefer they didn't?

There was no implication that it was my behaviour she didn't like. It was - and is - me, as a person. She has never said it to my brother despite him being the one who got in to drinking, smoking, drugs and violent behaviour.

You may have said this to your own children and quite possibly it didn't bother them at all. All I'm saying is that as a teenager, it really bothered me, and it still does. It sounds like OP's daughter doesn't feel very liked by her mother and for me, feeling that way - and having it confirmed - was very hurtful.

Do you really stop liking your loved ones when they behave - temporarily - in a way you would prefer they didn't?

Yes. If my parents or kids have done/said something not nice or acted in an unkind way I don't like them. It's natural to not like everyone all of the time. You still love them. I wouldn't say it to a toddler, they don't understand. But a teenager can understand that. I'm more surprised you genuinely like how your children behave all of the time.

Peaches it sounds like you have far more issues than that one comment with your DM.

I dare say it would be much kinder to say I love you but I don't like your behaviour/attitude sometimes

I'm more surprised you genuinely like how your children behave all of the time.

I don't. But I always like HER.

Peaches it sounds like you have far more issues than that one comment with your DM.

Hmm. Not really. We talk every day. Most of our issues stem from me feeling that I am disliked / not valued as a person by her.

As I said, your child may well have been unbothered when you said this to him or her. I was very hurt. I'm allowed to be. Your child might have been too.