AIBU to think where I have I gone wrong my two lovely children have turned into horrible, selfish teenage brats

[Waltzingmatilda65]

Just that really. I am on holiday now with DH and our two early teenager children. They have largely got on with each other better than they do at home most of the time and have joined in with water games/activities organised by the animation team etc.
But nearly every word that comes out of DD 13’s mouth is to poke fun at me she is surly, rude and disrespectful. When out for a meal she has little to say. We don’t let them take phones or iPads out (and never have had them at the table at home). She has no conversation if I look in her direction, pay her a compliment or ask her a question she either sticks her tongue out, pulls a face, snaps at me or mimics me. I am fed up with it. She is young for age and has no friends outside of school. I have tried to help with and I have taken time off work and done things with her.
DS 14 can hold a conversation but he can also be quite aggressive and rude in his tone. On holiday DH was speaking to me and we were having a discussion about which restaurant to go to and DS sticks his two penny’s in and starts getting really arsey etc. DH has told them both off several times. I am fed up with the pair of them last night I was awake thinking of ways I could get them to respect me and also punish them as they both do nothing at home. Neither make their beds, pick their dirty clothes up and take them to the wash, put cereal away, milk back in the fridge, clean up after making a snack etc etc without a carry on/argument/unless I hide their phones or knock the WiFi off.
I am fed up with them. They also bicker DD winds her brother up then he reacts over the top often hurting her or damaging something. They both used to be so lovely. But I now feel like a could really run away.

Sorry have no suggestions but wanted to say I know how you feel. DS15 and DS18 here - constant arguing, nit picking and answering back. It's exhausting

They'd be losing their phones and iPad until they apologised and demonstrated an improved attitude towards me.

At home, no wifi until chores had been done and laundry would only be done if it were in the basket - I wouldn't nag about it but I'd have zero patience with complaints about no clean clothes/uniform/etc.

Loss of privileges for winding up, more serious consequences for aggressive retaliation.

The teen years can be challenging, you have my sympathy (my DD has turned into a proper madam over the last year).

Grim innit? Nothing to offer but solidarity.

It's shit but honestly does get better.
All you can do is be consistent and make the most of the nice bits.

I think it's a phase most teens go through. When I did, I remember my dad saying to me that I shouldn't be any ruder to family than I would to a teacher or my friends' parents or someone on the street, just because they were family and "had" to be there for me. Family is not an emotional punching bag. And conversely, I should never accept family behaving badly to me either, just because they're family doesn't mean they somehow have a free pass to be horrible and I have to allow them to be beastly to me.

That really struck a chord with me as a teen. Don't know if it might work with yours but worth a try if they are otherwise able to be polite to adults!!

Bickering and surliness are pretty standard for teens but I think being disrespectful and rude is just not acceptable in my book. Have you ever discussed with them how their behaviour makes you feel?

Do you or your dp rip into them. So say you are going to a restaurant and they bicker way past what you can handle say..ok we are going back to our apartment and getting some....really boring...food.
Don't give out all the time or they tune you out but surprise them with an absolute laying into just once and follow up with a consequence. Ye both need to be on the same page.
As soon as they change their attitude forget the bad things and happily go on with the day.
This stage won't last forever.

Thanks all. Yes, we have DD loves boring very plain food and DS is the complete opposite. I had breakfast on my own this mornings no and ignored them. Then we had a long chat to them.
Behaviour has improved but will have to be changes when we get home.

Not sure if it’s good advice or not but when my 13yo is rude. (Which I quite rare TBF) I lay on a guilt trip. I say things like “you mightn’t realise it now but I’m actually a pretty important person in your life and you’ll find yourself sitting crying one day over how you’ve just spoken to me. I’m a human being and I’ve done nothing to deserve being disrespected in my own home. When you realise your mistake you come and find me to apologise, until then I don’t want to be around you.” He’ll usually come and find me after about half an hour and apologise at which point I’ll reiterate a lot of my previous message, he’ll get a bit tearful and repeat his apology. And i’ll Thank him and say that maybe he’ll think of this the next time he opens his mouth to be disrespect me. Like I say, it is rare I have to resort to that. I only hope it lasts and I’m not posting in desperation this time next year due to my rude 14yo 😂

Pick you battles OP.

Regards tidying, I never get the obsession with trying to get them to pick up clothes and make their beds. Just shut the door, let them have their space. They'll soon start putting clothes in the laundry when they have nothing clean. I'd lay the law down about communal areas. Learn how to change the WiFi password, change it after asking for a job to be completed once, don't get into an argument about it.

Conversation at dinner - what are you expecting? They're teenagers, you're adults. You don't have to allow devices, but you're never going to the same level of interaction as with an adult.

The rudeness - unacceptable, but have you tried something a bit unorthodox - laughing it off. Actually laughing. It'll make them feel quite silly, and that's about as effective as you can get in terms of modifying teen behaviour. Plus it has the added bonus of annoying them as it's the opposite reaction to what they're looking for.

Conversation at dinner - what are you expecting? They're teenagers, you're adults. You don't have to allow devices, but you're never going to the same level of interaction as with an adult.

While I agree with this to a certain extent, I do not think that teenagers are incapable of holding a conversation and rudeness should not always be forgiven just because they are teens. They talk all the time with their friends and would never think of behaving like this with them. I remind them that I should be afforded the same courtesy.

No advice but I really know how you feel op .

I'm on holiday with my teen and she was so rude and horrible and disrespectful that I had to go and sit in a field yesterday for an hour so that I could calm down. Feel really upset and disappointed as we went to a lot of effort to make this holiday enjoyable for her.

Were teens always this bad or has constant phone use made them worse do you think?

When I was s teen, I spent as little time as possible with my parents...they had their own busy lives, we were free to join them on holidays or not - they compromised on very little...it’s not the way it's done by most people now - maybe not then either. The eye rolling and back chat can feel very upsetting, they are doing it to get at you, to make a point - I’m inclined to call them out on this - it’s not the way adults get their way - it’s how children get their way - I try to appeal to their desire to be seen as behaving like adults.

"Conversation at dinner - what are you expecting? They're teenagers, you're adults. You don't have to allow devices, but you're never going to the same level of interaction as with an adult."

I totally disagree. We have lots of good conversation round the dinner table - in fact my teens would be horrified if I went on my phone during a meal, I did try it on holiday and they were very disapproving!!

Even my 12 year old is capable of talking to me and dh over dinner, I'm glad too, as being able to hold a conversation with adults is an important life skill!

I absolutely would not have rudeness on holiday. We save for months to afford holidays and they are lucky that they get one. You sound as though you need to stick to some ground rules at home OP. Mine don't have ipads and I think that helps tbh.

Not sure if it’s good advice or not but when my 13yo is rude. (Which I quite rare TBF) I lay on a guilt trip. I say things like “you mightn’t realise it now but I’m actually a pretty important person in your life and you’ll find yourself sitting crying one day over how you’ve just spoken to me. I’m a human being and I’ve done nothing to deserve being disrespected in my own home. When you realise your mistake you come and find me to apologise, until then I don’t want to be around you.” He’ll usually come and find me after about half an hour and apologise at which point I’ll reiterate a lot of my previous message, he’ll get a bit tearful and repeat his apology
Fucking Hell. That's a bit over the top isn't it??
Ds can be a rude arse, but I just go "oi! Don't speak to me like that!" And if it continues then I might remove a priveledge.
Not sure guilt trips and going on about your feelings is productive.
I feel for you OP. It's not too much to expect a bit of civil conversation ( we don't take devices out either) but really what 13 year olds want is a bit of autonomy. My advice is don't sweat the small stuff, and start focusing on your own life a bit-since you can have more freedom than when they are little.
Ignore them a bit and do your own thing. They will come running if they need you.

Fucking Hell. That's a bit over the top isn't it??

Are you asking me or telling me? Obviously I don’t think it is or I wouldn’t do it. You don’t have to do it if you don’t like it.

Ds can be a rude arse, but I just go "oi! Don't speak to me like that!" And if it continues then I might remove a priveledge.

So your way isn’t 100% effective either then. Good to know. Personally I find “oi” A really unpleasant way to speak to anyone.

I think sometimes they need reminding that Mum has feelings too and is not immune to feeling hurt, upset or disappointed by their behaviour. Not necessarily always full on guilt trips but where appropriate and if they have been particularly vile they should know how their actions made you feel.

If dd speaks to me like that (thankfully rare) I fix her with an evil glare and say in a quiet but menacing tone “ that was rude” and then just keep looking at her
She crumbles and apologises pretty quickly

Without a doubt it’s good to remind them they you have feelings and needs - the guilt tripping thing I just wouldn’t be doing - it doesn’t sound like a healthy way to communicate and my kids are not rude very often either.

I’d take away all devices and cash until they learn how to behave.
Nothing like an absent iPhone to focus the mind.
I would expect decent dinner table conversation too.
But I am fairly strict!

you’ll find yourself sitting crying one day over how you’ve just spoken to me

Can I ask why you don’t just directly say how what they have done/said makes you feel rather than driving them to tears? Then just suggest what behaviour you’d prefer from them in the future. Intentionally driving them to tears and giving them a heads up you expect that from them just sounds .....wrong

Can I ask why you don’t just directly say how what they have done/said makes you feel rather than driving them to tears?

You can.

I do. I don’t stick to a script. It’s not the same every time. Sometimes i’ll Say “how do you think that makes me feel” sometimes i’ll Say I’m hurt or upset at the lack of respect. Or can’t believ how rude he has been. I don’t plan to “drive him to tears” it’s just that sometimes that is his reaction. sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn’t. I think it’s natural that he is upset by realising he has upset his parent. Or anyone for that matter.

Then just suggest what behaviour you’d prefer from them in the future.

At 13 he absolutely knows what behaviour is expected. He knows what respectful behaviour is and what it isn’t.

Intentionally driving them to tears and giving them a heads up you expect that from them just sounds .....wrong

I don’t.