AIBU to think where I have I gone wrong my two lovely children have turned into horrible, selfish teenage brats

[Waltzingmatilda65]

Just that really. I am on holiday now with DH and our two early teenager children. They have largely got on with each other better than they do at home most of the time and have joined in with water games/activities organised by the animation team etc.
But nearly every word that comes out of DD 13’s mouth is to poke fun at me she is surly, rude and disrespectful. When out for a meal she has little to say. We don’t let them take phones or iPads out (and never have had them at the table at home). She has no conversation if I look in her direction, pay her a compliment or ask her a question she either sticks her tongue out, pulls a face, snaps at me or mimics me. I am fed up with it. She is young for age and has no friends outside of school. I have tried to help with and I have taken time off work and done things with her.
DS 14 can hold a conversation but he can also be quite aggressive and rude in his tone. On holiday DH was speaking to me and we were having a discussion about which restaurant to go to and DS sticks his two penny’s in and starts getting really arsey etc. DH has told them both off several times. I am fed up with the pair of them last night I was awake thinking of ways I could get them to respect me and also punish them as they both do nothing at home. Neither make their beds, pick their dirty clothes up and take them to the wash, put cereal away, milk back in the fridge, clean up after making a snack etc etc without a carry on/argument/unless I hide their phones or knock the WiFi off.
I am fed up with them. They also bicker DD winds her brother up then he reacts over the top often hurting her or damaging something. They both used to be so lovely. But I now feel like a could really run away.

Regards tidying, I never get the obsession with trying to get them to pick up clothes and make their beds. Just shut the door, let them have their space. They'll soon start putting clothes in the laundry when they have nothing clean.

Or they tail you around the house for up to 30 minutes complaining that they've no school socks and I put them in the wash and where are they, it's all your fault etc etc. While said socks were stuffed under the bed 3 weeks ago to make room for some other mess.

With some children it's easier to enforce daily tidying.

Or they just wear stinky clothes.

I'm with you. On holiday with older teens here in a paradise of a place. Don't want to do anything, would rather stay in their rooms, rude and aggressive. I've decided that this is the last family holiday (was meant to be a special treat), and realised that there comes a point in every holiday when I feel like this, so I'm not doing it again.

I stopped the joint holidays when they were that age. I was divorced from their father by then and let him do it

Op..I read your post to my DH and he laughingly asked if it were me that had written it. We have just returned from our annual holiday abroad. 14 year old dd was a nightmare. She is at the age where she's obviously too old for holiday clubs and will not join in any of the pool activities as she fears she will be " judged " ( her words).

She constantly picked on her younger brother, who joined in everything and is very sociable, and then complained when he retaliated. Spent all her time making snide, disrespectful comments to me and DH and could really have spoilt our holiday if we had let it affect us. She will make a comment and then say " no offence" at the end of it, knowing full well it is offensive. I pick my battles otherwise we would be constantly at each other, my DH retaliates straightaway and says he's not having a child talk to him like that. Fun and games!

And on the flight home she sat next to me ( we can't let her and her brother sit together as they argue so I never get to sit with DH) and complained all the time how cold she was, how uncomfortable she was , how much her DB was kicking her in the back as he was sitting behind her, why wouldn't I buy her a blanket ( she was already sharing mine) and so on and so on. It was like having a toddler sitting next to me.

On our return we had a long talk. I told her she always wanted the last word, she replied I know I do, that's just my nature! I fear there will be trouble ahead.

It’s Ds who is making our holiday a bloody misery. He is the last one to leave the apartment every time - doesn’t matter how or what we do, when we are due to leave, he will find 10mins worth of stuff to delay us, and he moves so bloody slowly, this is making me increasingly furious.

Yesterday he was asked to pick up the bit of rubbish we had accumulated during a long train journey - he refused, they weren’t all his!

I have gone from rarely being angry to being angry several times a day and everything we say to him seems like Teflon.

Thankfully he gets on with his sister who is trying to get him to understand why his behaviour is so infuriating, we have tried to explain over and over but he says he always has a good reason for being late. He is on “rations only” for two days, no treats, no input to choice of activities or restaurants and if after the two days he has not figured out why his behaviour is causing such a problem the sanctions will increase.

Last day of holiday. Just knocked on dd's door and tried to have conciliatory talk (as I'm the adult). Said that we should try and draw a line under what's happened and try and have a good last afternoon. I started by saying that it's unfair if you shout and be hideous to people and then expect compassion in the same instant. She screamed at me to "get out".

I've had it. I really have. The best I can manage at the moment is to ignore.

Leave the son who is always late. Just go and leave him.

Leave the son who is always late. Just go and leave him. We did that - but I felt very uncomfortable about it, so we went back and got him after about 30mins.
He complained for a couple of min this morning about his punishment of no treats. I stopped him and said - you are down NV it again - you are sucking the fun out of the day for everyone, so we will go back to the apartment, he stopped immediately and has been fine since - he is on a tight rein - my tolerance level is very low at the moment.

Break through today! After a hideous morning and lunch time, DD came and apologised for her behaviour and we hugged and had a chat and we both promised to try harder in future. Result! She has been pretty good company this evening too. Thank god for that as I couldn't have stood the journey home with that degree of tension in the air.

I hear you though at the moment we are in a positive patch with our two.

Explain clearly why you are upset
Set boundaries
Stick to your punishments ie removal of devices WiFi etc
Praise the good and the kind as it will reap benefits for all of you

We have had depressing weeks but remember they are still your lovely kids and as long as you keep communicating they will respond.

@Cloghopper that is good news! Ds offered to make dinner this evening and we gratefully accepted. His rations end at 2:00pm tomorrow afternoon and we’ll go for lunch then. It has shown him he does not hold all the cards but we have also been at pains to explain this has not been a vindictive thing but if need we will do it again. Dd has been trying to coach him and he probably will listen to her more gracefully than us!

Thank you Isentthesignal. Glad to hear your strategies have produced good results too! I would love it if my DD offered to cook dinner occasionally so thumbs up to your ds!

Up early for travelling. Here's hoping the reformed behaviour is sustained throughout the day. Fingers crossed anyway.

And to everyone on here going through this particularly testing period of parenting.

"..when my 13yo is rude. (Which I quite rare TBF) I lay on a guilt trip. I say things like “you mightn’t realise it now but I’m actually a pretty important person in your life and you’ll find yourself sitting crying one day over how you’ve just spoken to me. I’m a human being and I’ve done nothing to deserve being disrespected in my own home. When you realise your mistake you come and find me to apologise, until then I don’t want to be around you.”

I see years of therapy in this kids future.

Conversation at dinner - what are you expecting? They're teenagers, you're adults. You don't have to allow devices, but you're never going to the same level of interaction as with an adult
Some of the best conversations (and laughs) have been over the dinner table with the teens. Why do people expect, and settle for, rudeness as a 'teenager' thing. It's not. It's an arsehole thing.

If the kids are disrespectful and do nothing at home, why would that change just because the setting changes? They haven't suddenly 'turned into' anything really, have they? I sympathise, for sure, but behaviour like this doesn't suddenly just happen

Gosh reading these - I could have written them!
My ds 16 is a nightmare at the moment. We are away in this country, beautiful place. He’s missing his friends and a couple of parties at home so is a grumpy so and so. He’s picking on his brother constantly- little remarks etc that have had him in years - he’s 11.
I save and save to take them away each year. I go without other stuff to ensure they get a holiday, I’m really wondering why I bother.

I am almost 13 and I partly understand them. But I am not rude or disrespectful with my family, and I love conversations with my mom and dad and even with their friends. I can make a good conversation with grownups and I am less shy with new grownups than with new kids of my age. About the room part I perfectly understand them, all teens and most preteens want privacy and want to have their own space where they can do whatever they want. Including leaving clothes on the floor. Anyway teens are body-conscious and are usually embarrased at school if they wear stinky clothes. So you shall leave the cloth business to themselves and will stop leaving dirty clothes on the floor after hearing a rude comment about them at school. Teens want to be independent and learn from their own mistakes. I certainly know because I am almost teen too and I have teen friends.

*they will

But the rudeness and conversation parts are not good so you are not being unreasonable. Teens also start to be more close to friends and more distant with their family. Most teens also stop liking to to "family stuff" and want to be with their friends doing "teenish" stuff with them.

I see years of therapy in this kids future. grin

He’s already going through therapy. Due to something entirely unrelated. Why would you joke about that? You think mental health in teens is funny?

Why do people expect, and settle for, rudeness as a 'teenager' thing. It's not. It's an arsehole thing.

Maybe because when they actually deal with the behaviour problem tell them their child will end up in therapy.

Can’t fucking win. Expect less- shit parent. Deal with it- shit parent.

I note no actual advice in your post

@IfIwasabird FWIW I see no problem in how you deal with it. When I get full on tantrum behaviour that can't be ignored I set boundaries and expectations. When I get full on rudeness or unreasonableness, I also say I don't like this behaviour and I don't want to be around you until it changes. When they've been really foul I've also said I'm a human being with feelings. I'm not your emotional punchbag. You need me. Don't forget that. We take care of people we need. We don't hurt them in purpose. My children know they are loved. I cannot fathom how a pp thinks this sort of parent behaviour will lead to therapy, fgs.

To the pp who thinks a stern look is enough for all dcs, that's v unfair. One of mine will crumble with a look, one would get more angry and the third wouldn't notice they are so self absorbed.

Most of us are doing the best we can. I was never as challenging as my two teens are. I could have written some of these posts myself. Just back from holiday with two teens on who don't get on and enjoy picking on and goading the youngest. Holiday? Ha!!

Thank you cantfind! I don’t think it’s a bad thing at all for teens to realise their parents have feelings. You should feel bad if you are mean to someone.

For what it's worth you will find your kids will probably turn into wonderful older teenagers. I remember the horror that I was at that age. My 'favourite' way to punish my parents was door banging. If I stormed upstairs (which happened regularly - I had two younger siblings and was convinced mum and dad always stuck up for them) I'd bang my bedroom door. If it didn't get a reaction I'd bang it again, then the wardrobe door and so it would go on. Mum or dad would come upstairs and just say 'banging the door isn't helping, when you're ready to talk call downstairs and we'll come up' then turn around and go back downstairs completely ignoring my tantrum. Within 5 minutes I'd be downstairs very sheepish, offering to make a cuppa. Mum loves to tell that story (over and over again - even with dementia she remembers that! )

I'd leave my PE kit festering in the gym bag. Mum would ask for it after school on PE and, if it wasn't given over then it wouldn't get washed. She worked full time and had two younger kids to look after so that was that. After one PE lesson with mud splattered shorts which mortified me I used to unpack as soon as mum asked. My sisters learned the rules as they grew up - I think we all had at least one PE lesson or school day in clothes that hadn't met the washing machine and that was it. After that the laundry was in the basket at the end of each day.

I was also the most untidy person I know. Mum and dad had a rule of tidying the bedrooms every Saturday and, of course, at a certain age I'd sneaked off to our local market (favourite place to go at that time). I got a telling off, banned from going into town the following Saturday. Then, the next day, my very tidy friend came round. Instead of giving me warning so I could stuff things in wardrobes, my mum sent her up...her look of utter amazement at the state of the room did more than mum and dad's nagging ever did.

I guess, reading this back, mum and dad were very big on us learning WHY we were expected to do things and very small on the constant nagging.

Our DS is now coming up to 12 years old and the cheek has started. DH gets into verbal 'fights' - I try not to. My way is very much my parents way. 'When you speak to me in a proper voice instead of shouting I'm ready to listen', 'Can you come up here and pick the towels off the bathroom floor or you'll be drying yourself on skanky one's this evening' (then ignoring the protestation). Apparently DH reckons I'm good at getting DS to do as he's told. I don't know about that - I just refuse to converse with someone shouting at me. I don't ignore him but I try not to shout back, in fact I tend to drop my voice so he has to shut up to hear me. It's working at the moment but we're not into full battle zone yet! I'll be eating my words soon I bet.

Oh and I'm now in my fifties. I'd visit my mum and dad every week when I moved out at 21 years old, paid for them to go on holiday with my first pay packet at 17 years old, would give both of them a hug as soon as I came home from school when I was in my late teens. So they must have done something right. I'm still messy though!

you havent gone wrong this is just how most teenagers are! You are actually quite lucky as what youve described is on the milder side really.
I mean some people get away with having very calm, responsible teens who get on with them great... but I honestly dont think its all down to parenting. Some teens just find it to be a really emotionally difficult time and you cant predict that because sometimes its teens whove been amazing as young kids and have a great supportive family, who end up finding it hardest.
Id just try to ignore the backchat as much as possible. Obviously tell them its not okay, give a punishment if it persists, but please dont let yourself get this wound up about it as though its some reflection on you as a parent... its not. There isnt any punishment or method of disipline that you could hand out that would truly get rid of this behaviour.... its just what some teens go through im afriad! And the majority come out the other side still being great, considerate and polite people. It kind of sounds as though you are losing sight of the bigger picture here if you are lying awake all night trying to think of how to force them to respect you... they are teens!

Thanks all we are just back from holiday and the last few days were fantastic. They met some other teenagers to hang round with during the day and they took part in aqua polo, aqua aerobics, football etc together (which gave us some R & R time and a rest from moods and argumentative behaviour etc) and we were back from dinner in time for them to all meet up later and hang out at night either the games room or the park of all places together.
We normally enjoy some decent conversation at dinner especially from DS and we enjoy finding out what they are up to and them asking us about certain things.
So that ended well especially for my sanity.
Re: dirty clothes my two would happily go to school in smelly crumpled clothes as long as DS has his hair gel on. DD 13 couldn’t care less how she looks.
Neither have tidy rooms and as we have three downstairs rooms if DS has a friend round they tend to stay downstairs. DD sees no friends out of school but I would rather that at the moment than the kids she was hanging around with who bullied her and they are now up to all kinds.
Hope anyone still on holiday with teens holidays also improve.
DH goes back to work tomorrow so I have asked DS to take the dog on a half hour walk and DD to hang a load of washing out whilst I go food shopping. Let’s see how that goes.