When to say we can't do it anymore? Pls don't judge!

[ElzBevan]

We have a 14 year old daughter. I say we - my husband has been here since she was a year old. Her bio dad has abandoned her more than once....he currently lives in Thailand after telling her via facebook!
We have had a year of hell. Lying, stealing, running away, being beaten up, police at the door - you name it, she's been at the centre of it all.
Before today I have always tried to give her the benefit of the doubt, no matter the battles I've had to fight on her behalf.
For the last few weeks we have been targeted by a group of kids, who just don't seem to like her... we couldnt figure it out. Each time she has been beaten we have supported her, each time these kids show up we call the police, and so on.
A few days ago my neighbour came to me and asked me to ask DD to stop throwing her fag ends into her garden - i jumped to her defence (as Usual)
last night we caught her smoking in her room - even when caught she denied it, even caught red handed. I took away her phone, laptop and told her she was grounded....
This morning DH takes me to work. by the time he gets home 30 mins later, she has packed some stuff and run.
this is the 4th time. the police have been informed, and will be out to search the house (again) in a bit.
DH went into her room, and has found evidence of smoking, sexual activity and shopliffting - lots of shopliffting.
We have 2 ds's (9 and 11) who are being massively affected.
At this point, when the police do find her, i have decided i don't want her back in the house. She can't tell the truth, even when confronted, she can't speak to anyone with respect, she has trashed her bedroom, and she steals.
Has anyone experience of this??!
If you got this far thanks for reading

I wonder how many of those posting have been through this sort of horror with their teens?

It gets to a stage when you have to think of your own mental health and the safety of siblings, whilst continuing to find the best help for the teen. It's not abandonment.

I would investigate the bullying far more if she is coming home beaten up why isn’t anyone calling the police? Where is this happening? The sexual activity when if that happening. I don’t spend every waking moment with my teen but I do know where she is or who is with st all times.

I know it is impossibly tiring but you have to keep reminding yourself she is still that little girl underneath the hell that is her teen years.

Abandon her now and you will lose her forever.

Personally all three kids need to be farmed out for sleepovers and you need a break, a weekend away with dh to recharge. If you have any hope of getting through this priotising some regular down time is going be essential.

The source of her pain may be her lost father, she needs support. The bullying needs to stop and please remember all stages pass, every single one

you all need some help. Please contact social services who can help you as a family. I’m sure they vary from area to area but my dealings with them through my job are that that can help if you engage as a family. Also camhs and any other professionals who can work with your DD. I have similar ages teens and it’s not ‘normal’ behaviour - it’s usually a cry for help.

*I wonder how many of those posting have been through this sort of horror with their teens?

It gets to a stage when you have to think of your own mental health and the safety of siblings, whilst continuing to find the best help for the teen. It's not abandonment.*

No, but I have been that teen who was kicked out and let me tell you that it most definitely felt like fucking abandonment. All over again, seen as I was abandoned by my mum and dad as a baby too.

If I'd not have been kicked out, I wouldn't have ended up doing sex work at 17.

So sorry - it sounds so hard for all of you.
There is obviously a lot going on but additionally- what is her heart condition and did she have early surgery? There is increasing evidence that for some conditions many young people are developing difficulties in mental health and neurodevelopmental difficulties including cognitive difficulties, adhd and social communication difficulties- and these are often missed. Additionally early surgery is a form of early trauma which in itself can cause emotional difficulties. This may not be relevant to your dd but it may be.

I have not read all the replies.

You need to stop jumping to her defence and deal with the issues. A lot of new things (you suggested shoplifting) and sexual activity in a 14 year old girl suggests the possibility of grooming and sexual abuse.

Have you sought all the help you can? Schools, CAHMS, Solihull parenting course, helplines, charity counselling, school behaviour programs.

I wonder how many of those posting have been through this sort of horror with their teens?

Well quite! That’s when people talk out their arses.

I hear you OP and despite the horror bollocks you’re getting on this thread it IS important you look after your mental health.

You do need some outside help and everyone needs to know the stakes, including your daughter and it costs more for SS to put them in supported accommodation than it does to provide help you haven’t had yet. There will be services available to intoduce a new type of environment to your daughter and help focus and boost her self esteem. You’ll need to shout very loud though.

Just wanted to offer a bit of empathy; our soon to be 15 yr old DS is like this a bit. I’ve had times where I’ve wanted to send him away, but when things are good, I can’t beat the thought of living without him. Me and our 9 year old have run from the house with 9 ye old crying his eyes out when WW3 is going on with DS1 and DH inside.
DS 1 has been grounded and will jump out of a window, has been brought home by the cops, excluded from school, run off from school several times....
We went bonkers at first and now we are just calm (well, at least superficially), repetitive and just “showing him the right way”. He is impulsive, but then full of regret. These are they years to accept it’s going to be difficult. It’s hard but you have to keep going. She plays computer games with her younger siblings? That’s great: loads of teens wouldn’t do that. Let her be a little kid, make her home environment really nice and comfortable (we never ban x-box or turn off wi-fi now as we want him home doing that with his brother rather than out, getting moved on by the police) so it’s preferable for her to stay home rather than go out. Be monotonous: “I’m asking you not to do that....We don’t do this in our family, this is not how we are bringing you up..” over and over.
Calm debriefings after incidents. If she feels regret (this is a good sign) let her express it safely and without losing face. Many’s the time in the aftermath, I have said to DS, “do you see why we said no? Do you think I did that to be a bastard to you, or can you see that I love you and it is for your good?”
I think it’s going in, but “incidents” are getting fewer now. We do let him have a little beer with us, we took him to a music festival last weekend, we try to have a laugh. We are surviving and just getting through it for now, but it’s been a rough couple of years.
Pm me if you want. I’ll even give you a ring xxx

Rule no. 1 OP, never come to MN if you have a serious problem with your teenager's behaviour - you will mostly get a lot of ignorant judgey idiots (page 1 and 2) accusing you of abandoning your child, not loving your child enough, blah blah. (Why they're on this Board I never have worked out). I've never read such a load of old bollox. Luckily some better posts later.

There's no easy answer though, that said. I wish there were, when you are going through this kind of thing. It does sound like MH issues, though even with that, it always feels to me that unless you're in a position financially to afford excellent mental health care (psychiatric and counselling), your choices are limited.

How would your teenager feel about a trip to see her G.P. - either with you or alone to discuss whats going on? Presumably you've tried that one? How about going to your GP yourself, for yourself?

Has your husband adopted her officially OP? I see a child who was abandoned by her own dad and mucked around by him. She then sees her two siblings have their own mum and dad while she has a dad who isn’t a dad and a stepdad who is someone else’s dad. Two messages there to her that she wasn’t good enough. (Her interpretation- not what I’m saying is true)
If you walk away now or your husband takes the “what about the other kids” stance- then you confirm to her she is worthless.
She needs to know no matter how awful she is you both love her. I actually think her dad adopting her could do this for her and be so much more effective than you chucking her out.
But you need to fight for help and support as well as it does sound exhausting and I do feel for you as well.

Omg shame on u u are her mother no matter what u don't bring them upto 14 then say I don't want her back do u know what that is going to do to her head this has happened under ure roof on ure watch shes smoking in her room shoplifting and having sex she clearly needs help I've seen loads of post about teens lying even when caught someone get this girl help there's clearly something going on in her head and u just wash ure hands of her these kids that show up go out and tell them to piss off she not well she has obviously said something to them or about them yoy say they have been a few times so why don't you know why they keep coming go out anf ask them then get ure daughter out and get them sort it out ure daughter is clearly acting out as there is something not right but that's alright cause uve had enough it's been a back year for u for her as well u never give up on ure kids u back them even when they do things u don't like u always stand by them not say I've had enough

Unless you have been through the mill with a teen who is seriously off the rails, you have absolutely no idea and no right to judge a parent who has reached the limit of their endurance. There are normal teenage rebellions and there is another level which is unbearable.

Keep up the effort for as long as you can. Try every avenue, but there comes a point where a normal person can not cope any more.

Don't listen to people who are criticising you for considering all options, including forcing social services to take over. This is NOT abandonment if you feel you have reached the end of the line and cannot give the young person what they need. You aren't kicking her out on the street. Social services have an obligation to provide shelter. You know it, I know it, they know it.

You sound very caring, non-judgemental and you have obviously reached a point where you can't cope.

I'm with you. There is very little help out there nowadays. Social services, the police, education, youth services, mental health, all have seen cuts. It's no wonder that we are approaching a perfect storm.

How patient and understanding are we meant to be? Should we allow ourselves to be bullied, screamed and cursed at for hours on end, having our homes trashed? Putting up with complaints from neighbours for antisocial behaviour when dealing with your child's massive public displays of anger? Should we allow our younger kids to be terrorised? Should we put up with being spat on, called a fat cunt, gaslighted? How long should we tolerate having possessions stolen? How long should we put up with drugs, knives going missing? Should we be patient and understanding when the young adult you love has stashed knives and then threatens to stab your husband? How tolerant should we be when we are brutalised? Murdered, perhaps?

Having read the OP I can sympathise with you, our DS turned into a nightmare at 14 and after four years of pure hell we will be rid of him in just over four months, we went through him packing bags leaving home coming back leaving home from 14-16 until he had used up all his options and the decent friends he had got fed up with him he has not done it as much as he has nowhere to go. We too had social service involved and I am sorry to say they were next to useless, we paid for him to go to The Priory to see the top people there but after 6 weeks he decided he did not want to go any more, that he did not need it. We equally were not going to have a screaming match every time so cancelled any further treatment. I can only say do what you feel you have to for your own sanity. I contemplated suicide on more than one occasion due to what our DS did to us as a family and will never forgive him for that. Fortunately we have very little contact when he is here which is what I prefer, we have told him once he goes in October never to come back we want nothing more to do with him. Stand strong with your partner and don't let it break you, it almost did us and our relationship will never be as it was because of our DS behaviour. I have just brushed on our experience but it has been absolutely horrid and not once I wish to repeat. Good Luck and Thinking of you.

What psychological support is she receiving?

I've read through replies etc. Typical replies to be honest, most from parents who really have no idea, how this parent feels. I understand, I've read a reply from someone, who feels her behaviour isn't extreme enough, to warr a not, this parents, desperation. How, do you truly know what's gone on, and how this parent feels inside? I can guarantee, I know how this parent is feeling. Hopelessness, useless, desperate and above all a good parent, admits when they can do no more. When, a parent can no longer cope, this aldo affects all siblings and the child in question. My younger children have befn through hell. Due too a wayward teen. Do, what you feel is right, by your child and the siblings!!!!!!! No one, has the right to make you feel guilty. Only, you know, what you can mentally cope with. I wish you, all the best whatever your choice. Xx

The problem is in my experience there is very little support for parents or teenagers in this situation. I have BEGGED social services to help. Nothing. I have taken DS to CAMHS. They listened to him complain for fifteen minutes about how awful his home life was (because we had tried disciplining him for bad behaviour) and without digging any further they decided he has emotional issues due to home life. They didn't care about him self harming or taking drugs. Didn't care about his aggressive behaviour. They ignored the fact that he wouldn't have any problems with home if he didn't act out!!!

So what the hell is an ordinary parent meant to do??? If I were richer I'd pay for private help but we can't afford to pay a psychologist or to send our kid to rehab or to a boot camp (which is what I think he needs).

So... my point is I really understand how the OP is feeling in a way that I think most other people who have not been in this situation cannot possibly imagine.

So no wonder people reach the end of their rope. There. Is. No. Help.

I’m just wondering who you think it is that will look after your child because that’s who she is, your child, You simply cannot pass the buck because she hasn’t turned out how you would have wanted and that her behaviour is affecting her siblings.
I have considerable work experience of young people and adults who have/had distruptive behaviours and can honestly say that their parents chucking in the towel never ends well.
Family therapy is what is needed.

I have been through this. My daughter is 15yrs, possibly bipolar, I decided to do a section 20, placing her into care. She couldn't cope, with our ADHD children and her behavior escalated. She requestion to go into care, naa I frltit was best for her. Ages doing extremely well now, her moods are settled and she's happy. I do not feel guilty, as I didn't abandon her, I let someone take care of her, that could help her. That is what a mother does, when wanting the best for a child. They put that child first. All those saying you can't put her into care, you can't abandon her, you nay not have been so desperate, maybe you coped and breezed through it. We can't all do that, mine us due to myown mental health condition. Give a thought to this poor family. STOP pouring on the guilt

zombie... I do wonder what's happened for OP.

Please don't throw this little girl away, if she goes into the care system it's likely she will never recover.

I also note you state she's being beaten, but you shrug it off.

This child has had a hard life. Abandoned by her birth father, bullied and I suspect as much as you won't want to hear it she feels different to her siblings as their father is not hers.

The reality is when kids behave this way something is causing it. Something made them this way, yes you need help. As does she. Abandoning her to the care system is not that help.

Giggly thank you for your response, however, I know how it all works and we have tried, it all. Including family therapy, who discharged us as they said the daughter, wasn't willing to change behavior. Support groups, cahms, anger therapy? Medication, when you watch the siblings cowering and crying in a corner, children needing therapy for the results of living with it. What sort of mother would I be, if the other kids got hurt or were mentally scarred by it all. ? Oh, then you'd say I was crap mom, for not protecting them. There is no help, I begged for respite for her. I begged them to help us. I ended up with a mental breakdown. But, that's ok is it other kids are parentless, and I'm not longer around for them and her.??????? You have no idea!!!!! I wanted to show support to the OP, you can judge all you like, but, are you the ones living it??????????

The problem is that social services do nothing if they think they can get away with it. Social services know that they can guilt good parents into putting up with the impossible and they don't have to provide support when their resources are stretched. The only way to get help is to be a 'bad' parent.

The bar is set too high with CAHMS, so minor issues don't get sorted until it reaches crisis point by which time it is too late. Again, good, loving parents don't get any support.

Often the only way to get help is to say enough is enough, I'm not doing it any more.

Just read this message and it really resonated with me as I've had (and still have) very difficult times with my teenager. I'm really keen to know what the outcome was and hope that things are better?

Sending love.