Is this a normal row?

[bellylaughs]

On holiday at the moment living in very close quarters and a big row erupted tonight between me, DH, DD1 and DD2.
Background is DD1(15) is quite easy usually, DD2 (13) seems to be at that age where you can't say hi her without her telling you how you've done it wrong/been stupid/irrelevant etc.
Anyway, only arrived yesterday and things have been a bit tense with only one bathroom - Dd3(11) and Dd4 (7)also with us- but today and this evening went really well, all had a laugh at dinner, played cards etc.
DH and I relaxed and had a couple of glasses of beer. Not too much at all but potentially enough to lessen our patience i suppose. Anyway we get back to the accommodation tonight and suddenly a huge row kicks off because DD1,DD2 and DH all need their phones charged for the morning and we only have two adapters on holiday with us. DH always runs first thing and needs his phone for music/gps then it became a debate about which of DD1 or DD2's phones should go on the other charger. I was shocked at the desperation they both felt to get their phones charged. They were shouting at each other and us about who was more in need of a charge. It all got very shouty and I dread to think what the (very close by) neighbours must think. Anyway, DH and I came back into room and DH called DD2 a b and generally ranted about her attitude behaviour etc. Later she told me that she heard all this and is upset as is DD1 as she thinks we row more than other families and what is wrong with us etc etc. After I thought it had all settled down and DH and I are in bed I then hear a new row kickng off between the two of them with DD2 complaining that DD1's Kindle light was on too bright and DD1 refusing to lower it. At that point I had had enough bed and had a go at both of them particularly DD1 as I suppose I was just fuming that they would kick off again after what had just happened. Of course that set DD1 off crying actually it how we were not a normal family because we argued too much.
So I suppose my question is how bad are we? Are we normal or is it disfunctional to call your daughter names (albeit thinking you're out of earshot) and generally shout loudly in very close quarters at 11pm-ish
I can't decide for myself as some of my friends with teens seem to have similar rows and others always deal with things quietly and calmly.
Obviously I know my DH should never use a word like that about DD but when they have been incredibly entitled, rude, aggressive and generally unbearable imfor the last fee months/years then part of me can understand the frustration especially since he didn't say it to her but rather as a rant to himself with the door shut etc. Do other families of teens have horrible rows like this or is it really out of the norm/unacceptable?

The father didn't learn to negotiate and manage disappointment. He just took and showed them as a man he came first.

User. What nonsense. My dds are in their early 20s so Ive had 2 "entitled teens" in the house. We managed to get through those years without name calling and every disagreement turning, very quickly into a shouting match.

Oh god, I don't know to suggest re the bitch comment that's going to stick with her forever. I remember around the same age I overheard my mum telling db he was her favourite & all the reasons why, putting me down in the process.
She realised I heard & tried to apologise but just minimised really, oh it's nothing i didn't mean it etc. Never trusted her since.
Just pop to a supermarket & buy a multi charger fgs

Also I think it's really worrying that he not only said it but thought it

Don't beat yourself up OP, holidays can be stressful and with 4 girls that age there is bound to be conflict.

A lot of teens feel like a limb is missing without their phones and constant contact with their friends on snapchat etc. I don't like it but that's the way it is.

My DH can be a bit like this on occasion with our DD2 as she can be hard work. Although I do think the fact that her sister is so easy going makes DD2 seem worse when she's actually not that bad if that makes sense (both 16).

Thank you everyone for the replies. DH has had a sincere chat with both of them this morning and apologised especially for the name calling.

Speaking to DH before he went in to them, he is at his wits end as to how to deal with DD2 and I know how he feels although I have more patience so can put up with more from her before reacting.

She is literally constantly rude to us. We've tried punishing etc (removal of devices, go to your room etc) but a lot of the rudeness takes the form of back chat and tone of voice (think of the tone you would use when you speak to some dog dirt) so it's quite hard to specifically pinpoint and punish for.

Then when we do we're "singling her out" (we are she's the only one who does it) she ruins almost every meal we have as a family and if it's not ruined we all walk on eggshells so it's not exactly relaxed.

Sorry for the rant but I think it's all part of the problem.
Off to buy loads of adapters now!

Well then she's hurting for some reason. It's not normal, even for a teenager to behave like that

Totally agree with User - why on earth shouldn't an adult have first 'dibs' on the charger - why are (some) teenagers so bloody entitled that they think it is their 'right' to use something which - they haven't organised/thought about/paid for etc etc. Presumably there is enough time to charge all the phones and the teens are likely to up much later than the adults so they can charge their phones afterwards.

I can't stand this attitude of pandering to teenagers - no wonder so many are little 'snowflakes' - and yes, I have a very difficult teenager myself so I know what it's like. .

Ifyougo Lucky you, we have a teen who is incredibly temperamental (we've been told by Psychiatrist that she exhibits many ASD traits). This would be seen as nothing big and we are frequently called far worse by her. Maybe we're just so ground down with it we can't be bothered to get upset about it.

But still the principal remains, as the parents we do very occasionally say that as the provider of everything you have, we get priority just because.

When my kids have left home they will decide how it's done in their home but until then as I cook and provide their food, give them lifts, ensure they have everything they need and provide a sympathetic ear to their woes then occasionally they need to just back off.

It was a bad word in the heat of the moment. I expect they called him worse but he just didn't hear it and tbh why should they get their stuff charged before him, what makes them more important?

I think your teen sounds pretty normal!! They can be utterly exasperating.

How's her sleep and diet?

No phones for 24 hrs, if they argue like that again, phones removed for the rest of the holiday. Simple.

Try to have a talk to DD. Tell her you feel she is angry with you, gets angry at mealtimes etc. Ask her what is wrong and why she feels like this. You may get answers, you may not but at least you've started to talk about it.

I think this kind of situation happens a lot - it is not unusual, is that the definition of normal? It's not desirable though is it? We fell into a similar pattern with ds, he was angry and had a fresh delivery of teen hormones and we had to quickly figure out how to change our response to his rude outbursts, because I couldn't stand the arguments.
Firstly as adults you have to learn not to bite back, stay calm - show the kids how to behave as adults. Listen to their concerns and try to treat them like adults - compromise rather than control. I read loads of parenting teen manuals and they helped to reset my parenting for the teen years and when dh and I improved our approach everything else fell into place.

The teens sound normal

The adults sound like they are over reactive and not much better than the teens

She is literally constantly rude to us. We've tried punishing etc (removal of devices, go to your room etc) but a lot of the rudeness takes the form of back chat and tone of voice (think of the tone you would use when you speak to some dog dirt) so it's quite hard to specifically pinpoint and punish for. I think you are probably rude to her too - treat her with respect, regardless of how she speaks to you and you can demand she treats you the same way. Lead by example.

In all honesty OP, it doesn't sound great when it's all written down and being read from an outsiders perspective.

In reality though, I don't think it is that abnormal. Tbh it actually sounds like the day in a life of many families that have teenagers.

Your family may argue a little more than others, but also probably less than others too.

and tone of voice (think of the tone you would use when you speak to some dog dirt) so it's quite hard to specifically pinpoint and punish for.

if it is behaviour you can't specifically pinpoint, then you DON'T punish her for it, you disregard it.

If it is clearly rude, you just say mildly, " That tone of voice did sound a little bit aggressive" but you say it in an entirely neutral voice, and then you carry on with the conversation politely.

if it is borderline, or difficult to "pinpoint" then you just carry on speaking normally without reacting.

Why would you want to punish someone for a misdemeanor you can't even identify clearly!

Sounds normal teen stuff to me. Somedays i copw brilliantly woth an onward smile and ignore the tone of voice,the negative response, the self entitlement and some dsys because i am human I snap and am rude back. Name calling no but although i dont think its right and all the stops need to be pulled out to ensure he does not do it again i can see how someone parenting a dufficult teen can reach that point.

You need to just make sure your dh knows he crossed a line really that needs to never be crossed again. We are all different and have different limits.. we all patent dufferently byt name calling from parent to child is wrong. Ive come close in the heat of a nasty row at the tail end of difficult behaviour and stressed out with other issues but now if i feel that bad i stomp off somewhere private snd usually cry out my rage.
Patenting some teens is alot harder than others.My 2 same upbringing are chalk and cheese. One chilled etc the other a whirlwind of tension and attitude. I love them both the same but 1 is easier company all round. Hes aplogised so just dont repeat and try end enjoy the rest of your holiday.

Some really good advice here, thank you. We know all the stuff about not reacting, staying calm/neutral etc. It's just that every now and then your patience snaps and you bite back. I know it's pretty normal but I do envy families who seem to never raise their voices and those who seem to have reasonable teens (I know they exist because if I had two like DD1 I don't think I'd understand why people think teens are hard work!)

With regards to the "entitlement" I would always expect DH or myself to get first dibs on chargers etc. Especially when he's not using it for social media but actually for excercise and navigation. I'm surprised how many people think he should have sacrificed his charger for the kids!

With regards to not punishing the rudeness, it's soul destroying rudeness levels but without actual swearing or insults if I can put it like that. So it does occasionally need punishing, especially when she arrives in to the room seemingly just waiting for the first chance to pick a fight with someone. It really does affect the whole family.

She eats and sleeps pretty normally and I have a strict no phones overnight policy so I'm not sure it's any of that leading to the rudeness.

On the flip side, some days (rarer now) she is the life and soul of the house and is hilariously funny. She can be like a stand up comedian when she wants to in terms of entertaining us! And I know her (very wide) circle of friends think she is funny/kind/lovely and don't see the side we see at all.
I'm just hoping she'll come out of it eventually and in the mean time we can all find ways of dealing with it/ staying sane!

how often do you check her phone and see what sort of social media she is involved with?

You see, she's actually pretty lovely, just not to you. That's a good thing because at least she knows how to behave and because she has people in her life who enjoy her - even when you don't. That's very important.

Can't offer much else but I don't think you should be overly worried, it sounds very much within the realm of normal.

Did he say she was a bitch, or that she was behaving like a bitch?
Either way not ideal, but second better than the first.

Sounds like an avoidable argument. I hate it when my dh is short tempered with the kids.
It doesn't take too long to charge phones. The kids could've gone on charge for a couple of hours before dh put his on. Take a multiplug in future with one adapter.
I try and pick my battles, problem solving is better than a slanging match.

Take heart op-i was much like your dd2...vile at home, lovely to everyone else.
My mum in fairness was quite a hard person to live with-very critical and then I kind of came to expect that so pre empted it by being horrible all the time-and round In a circle we went. My mum didn't deserve the levels of meanness I chucked at her though.

I came through it fine-and by 18 or so I was alright again-I think some kids get a double dose of hormones and it makes them bloody hard to live with for a bit is all...you are unlucky to have one so afflicted-but if the other one is alright it can't all be down to anything you are doing...

Thank you for giving me hope She is lovely at her good moments. But it feels like there is this inner force inside her trying it's hardest to push us away. We are always positive with her, never critical or anything and what DH said was intended for my ears only not hers.

Unfortunately this accommodation is very small and it was overheard. All better today after he apologised but the constant rudeness is an issue. Sometimes she even hates it when we are nice to her, for example quite often when I say goodnight as she's going up to bed she'll say "no, it's a bad night" and storm upstairs all moody.

She regularly has crying/shouting meltdowns about the smallest thing, a sore toe, a missing top, her braces (don't start me on them) etc. We ended up taking her to out of hours GP the other night because of the terrible headaches she was crying about. He suggested we should see regular GP the next day but because the appointment clashed with a social event she decided she was all better and has not mentioned the recurring headaches since

I have even considered that she may be ASD but the fact she can turn it on and off and behave perfectly for hours/days on end with friends or at home when she wants makes me think it's probably not. She's also very sensitive to others' emotions and empathetic when she's in the mood.