H & M nearly killed my daughter

[motherofteen1]

When my daughter was suffering from an eating disorder, she got desperately thin. At under 6 stone, and looking gaunt and close to hospitalisation, we went to H & M to buy some jeans, and found that the size 6 were snug. She then decided that she needed to lose more weight as she wanted to be a size 6. On closer inspection H&M SIZE 6 ADULT = GIRLS AGE 8/9. (The corresponding XS mens = 13/14 boys). H & M is a full size smaller than other high street brands such as Top Shop and Zara. What is this doing to our already fragile daughters? I have written to H & M, including to their head office director, and so far they are not agreeing to change their size charts. Anorexia is the biggest mental health cause of death - What can we do to change H & Ms sizing policy? (of course it is cheaper to make smaller sized clothing). Any advice, post sharing, PR ideas please.

OTT title much....

Everyone knows sizing for women is crap, that there can be inches difference between a "10" in one shop and another, sometimes even the same brand can have differing measurements for what they label a certain size based on material, cut, style etc. Some stores/brands use European or other country sizing. It's a lot easier to pick up clothes off the shelf and look at the actual garment to judge if it is about the right size than look at the label.

Your daughter nearly died because she has a mental illness, not because of one specific store having badly sized pants. It's unfair, and misunderstood and doesn't get the sympathy and understanding it deserves when it's your brain that doesn't work properly, but it is that her brain doesn't work properly that is the issue. If it hadn't been the too tight size 6 pants in one shop, it could have been the over generous sizing of another store where she fit into a size 4 making her think she should fit a size 4 from every shop. Or the cut of a pair of jeans being baggy round the waist and tight on the bum making her think her bum was too fat, or a blouse with a baggy chest and more fitted waist making her think her tummy was too big.

Clothes shopping is never going to go well for anyone with body image issues, especially those with eating disorders and body dysmorphia.

Unless you're going to write to every single clothing shop for not having uniform sizes across the board, it's unfair to single out the one store. Their sizing might be even more varying than others, but it happens in ALL shops.

The most important thing is that she is recovering, and best wishes to her.

peri, excellent post

I agree with others also, this is not about H+M's or any other shops' sizing, it's about the value current society places on 'thin'.
It's all bollocks, and providing young people with strong role models of all sizes, shapes and fashion preferences is so important.

a post about a child's eating disorder is actually turning into a stealth boasting thread about adults who wear size 6s being able to fit into age 13-14 clothes...

Nothing about stealth boasting. The thread wasnt so much about someones eating disorder as it was somebody asking for experiences to shame a shop.

It's a fact. I'm making a point that as a perfectly healthy adult woman who eats her fair share of take aways and takes an XS in H&M it's simply wrong to suggest that smaller sizes cause eating disorders etc. There is a need for shops to stock smaller fitting clothes for smaller framed women. Women should choose their shop and range based on whether they tailor to suit their shape.
E.g. the divided line (black labels) in H&M is tailored to fit prepubescent and early pubescent girls so I can't fit my books into anything that isn't 3 sizes bigger than usual. I just accept that's part of their range. (Just like when I need work trousers, I don't go to next or toyshop because their fit is really weird but I do get on with H&M and Oasis)

Equally, kids are noticeably bigger too (height, build and size). E.g. in Nike I wear an XS but I can also fit in age 13 in thr juniors. It doesn't surprise me because I look around school where I work and I'm a much smaller build than many of our girls. Hell, some of the upper school girls have more womanly curves than I'll ever get in a lifetime!

And women are getting bigger! I've been an XS for 15 years now and I'm almost 3 stone heavier!!! Most definitely larger than I was.

It's not as simple as 'Here's 2 measurements and this proves that this shop is making people have eating disorder relapses'.

"I think Elphaba has got it right, encourage your kids to assess what actually fits, rather than assuming it's their 'size' so it must fit. My 12 year old has clothes in her wardrobe ranging from age 8 to age 14, they all fit and she doesn't care what age the label depicts."

Thank you, metalmum - that's brilliant re your 12 yr old. I honestly think the earlier we teach our dds that it's how clothing feels and looks, rather than what number is on the label, the better.

And like you and ifeelcrap I too thought the OP's poor dd had been subject to some awful accident caused by shop fittings.

OP, apols if I've missed this but have you had family therapy as part of your dd's treatment? Because you do seem fixated only on H&M when there are so many other companies guilty of bonkers sizing.

I'm confused... I fit into a 6-10 in H&M most of the time (depends the type of garment)

In the 50's my waist would have been a 10 and a 8 in the 80's but now it's a 6 or even a 4. That's vanity sizing, how is that supposed to upset anyone?

I used to get gaps 24 when I was 11, they were the only shop that did them small enough because I was take thin. Now, ten years later, I wear a 25... I've put on more than 1inch.

It's all just arbitrary.

Thanks for all your messages. I have thought about your responses, and agree that the issue needs to be tackled wider. Heard the news today about another anorexic who committed suicide.
Time to try and change retailers using too thin models, having unhealthy sizing and more funding for mental health issues which are spiralling.

I'm glad your DD is now doing well, OP.

Personally, whatever their website states the relevant measurements are, I've found H&M clothing to be utterly random in sizing. I am an 8-10 in most other shops, but have H&M trousers in sizes 6 to size 16! All a similar cut and shape, and when you put them against each other they are the same size! I've long ago learnt to try everything on in there, and to try on an item in every size from 6-18 until I find what fits. I think half the issue is their stuff is so cheap that half of it either isn't made properly or it isn't labelled correctly in the factories. Have had several friends say the same thing to me too.

Time to try and change retailers using too thin models, having unhealthy sizing and more funding for mental health issues which are spiralling.
I totally disagree. Most models are thin but perfectly healthy. We all come in different shapes and forms and clothes sizes are just that, trying to help customers find the right size for their shape. Not everyone thin suffers from an eating disorder, in the vast majority of cases, it's just down to their genes.

Trying to blame retailers for your daughter's illness is only displacing blame. You will be much more helping your daughter by encouraging her to accept ownership of her issue, and therefore make her see that she can, with a lot of support, control how she copes with her illness.

Anorexia is an illness, which thankfully is not widespread. Obesity is, so retailers will have more a responsibility towards catering with the most common societal problems.

If your daugther's illness means that she will be attracted to smaller sizes, then surely however the retailers classify their shape is irrelevant, she will then turn to children size as an alternative.

I hope your daughter gets better soon.

Most models are thin but perfectly healthy. We all come in different shapes and forms and clothes sizes are just that, trying to help customers find the right size for their shape

Many models may be naturally thin and also healthy but I think it would be naïve to assume that the industry in itself is therefore OK. Sure we all vary in size and shape but models used generally only reflect a tiny percentage of the population. And the fashion industry does pressure them to maintain their size. It's in part why many models are so young - because it's much easier to maintain those weights in your teens than it is in your mid 20s.

The industry does put pressure on models and some women.

I do think we've got to be careful to avoid discussions about the smaller end of sizes turning into "small sizes promote eating disorders". Firstly because some women are just small. Secondly, nobody gets hysterical that stocking size 32 promotes obesity. There's a double standard in the way women discuss this where it's fine to comment negatively on shops that cater for smaller women, stock size 4 etc but it's taboo to even mention the upper end.

I'd be seriously pissed off if somebody wanted to suggest that I'm slim because I shop at H&M rather than slim because I always have been and I'm quite athletic. Mental illness and eating disorders cause people to feel unwell. Not shops.

And yet if someone with an eating disorder walks into a shop and can only fit into a size 10/12 because the sizes are ridiculous, it will negatively impact upon their recovery. I think some people underestimate the amount of importance some with ED attach to those labels or the number on the scale. I agree with the poster who queried why women's sizes can't be done the same way as men, in inches so you always get a perfect fit. None of this so-called vanity sizing or sizing things two sizes up.

I've no problem with any shop stocking smaller sizes, I was actually glad to finally see Primark where I live stock a size 4. But at least they label it as a 4. It's not marked up as an 8. Imo, the issue is the irresponsible sizing. Not the stocking of smaller sizes or using healthy slim models.

Heard the news today about another anorexic who committed suicide.

Another girl with anorexia?
Not "an anorexic".

You are making her the illness as her identity which is what she will feel like. This is the worst thing to do as it agrees with her perception the anorexia is part of her and always will be.
I wish your daughter well and am glad she is on the road to recovery but maybe you could get some counselling for your own support to go over the feelings you may have had to hide to get her through this?

I've started buying Primark size 4 for my ten year old daughter. She is tall and slim and weirdly the larger kids sizes are too big for her. The leggings fall down etc. Whereas adult size 4 fits ok.

I must say though that I do find it weird that adult sized clothes would be smaller than children's clothes.

Gizmo79 that is SUCH a good point. It would surely help with the UK's obesity crisis to label women's clothes according to size too, as we would be able to get a much clearer handle on our own size and how to manage it. Women should lobby government or some kind of fashion industry regulatory body (if such a thing exists) on this point - that all clothes retailers should have to size clothes according to their actual size (waist/bust/hips measurements/leg lengths in inches or centimetres). Then we would all know where we were and our poor DDs might stand a chance of knowing what size they were too.

Sorry about your dd. H&M sizes are ridiculous. I'm a 12. I couldn't fit into a 16 in that store and also went away feeling a bit rubbish.

I might be over simplifying this...I know H&M sizing is outrageously wrong...so I don't shop there, ever. It's not like we have a shortage of shop choice for correctly sized clothes. Just don't shop there.

I managed to fit nicely into a size 12 dress from h&m despite most of my clothes being 16-22, the sizes are definitely random. Just purchased 3 pairs of petite DP jeans in the same size and style, one which fits perfectly, one which is too tight and one which is a good 4 inches wider and longer than the others
I also have vintage clothes ranging from 50s-80s in a variety of sizes from mainly British labels, 10 to 26 so I'm not convinced clothing sizes have changed all that much.

I do remember traipsing round shops with my friends who were crying when they were a 6-8 but squeezed into a h&m 16 though

Also wrt older clothing sizes, these threads often neglect to mention that it's not so long ago that women squeezed themselves into girdles which are making a comeback
I tried on some of my grandma's from back in the day and despite being a big round lump, the way they squashed in my stomach and reduced my waist was pretty extreme.

Also how would making clothes sizes be measurement based help this? If your waist is 28 inches but you're convinced you should be smaller then... same thing happens.

I'm so sorry about your DD OP, I suffered with eating disorders in my early teens and I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

However, I personally have never found H&Ms sizing to be small, nor Topshops or other brands aimed at the younger market. When I got suits for sixth form I had to have the size 6 from next taken in 4 inches at the waist and 2 at the hips. I think the age group of a shops target market affects the level of vanity sizing so those aimed at older women will label their clothes as a 6 but it would be a size 10 in topshop if you measured the garment itself. If you took a similar garment from each and laid them next to each other the difference would be enormous and clear to see.

Looking at size charts on google an average 8 year old will have a 23 inch waist a uk women's size six is a 24 inch waist, so there isn't much difference. I bought a pair of jeans in a six from H&M recently and they fit perfectly despite me having a 26 inch waist after having dd so if anything my experience is that their sizing is generous. I was tiny before I had DD, as are all of the women in my family, and I often shop in the children's section for leggings and trousers as they are much much cheaper and from age 9/10 they are the same as a uk 6. It isn't boasting it is just my experience I don't think I am better than anyone else for inheriting a small frame before people jump down my throat.

The problem is that women are told to aspire to be as small as possible and that the size on your clothes really matters. As a society we have become far too used to seeing an overweight person as normal, and the same with children so people feel shocked when they are what they consider to be a big size because they don't consider themselves to be overweight.

The variation between shops is enormous and I do think that something should be done to make shops universally adhere to one size chart and for the clothes to actually conform to it.

So sorry about your daughter, anorexia is a terrible disease. I hope she's doing better now.

Unfortunately I really doubt h&m will do anything. If it's any comfort to her, I doubt it would be since I know how irrational EDs can be, it is known that their sizes are tiny compared to other high street shops, I was in there today buying bikinis and left with size 12s when I'm normally an 8-10.

Sure we all vary in size and shape but models used generally only reflect a tiny percentage of the population.
But models are not expected to represent population. They are a marketing tool to encourage people to buy. The reality is that most clothes hang better on slim people, so attracts more buyers, even those who look ridiculous in the same outfit.

Of course models are expected to remain slim, just like athletes are expected to be very strident with their eating and exercise regimes. When you pick that field of work, you know it comes with these demands. Being and remaining slim does not equate hardship for many such people. My DD is naturally very slim (takes after her dad) and never been into food much. Eating for her is not a great source of pleasure, so having a small appetite is natural to her. Being slim is in no way an effort for her.

Anorexia is a mental disorder and has nothing to do with models let alone clothes sizes. I totally agree with Isadora. Anorexia or extreme low weight doesn't define who the person is. They are their own person suffering from an illness. Blaming others is only refusing to accept the illness in the first place and therefore a hindrance to recovery.

Next nearly killed me....
I can't fit into their clothing...even a 6 in there hangs off me.
Totally OTT op.

Obesity in this country has gone crazy and retailers have tried to keep up by making their sizes bigger. H&M haven't along side with a few others. It really annoys me when I go out now and have to shop in the kids section of some shops because the sizes have become so big now. Why in this country it's become okay to slate someone who is skinny and tell them they need to eat more etc but if the shoe was on the other foot and you randomly told a fat person they were massive and needed to eat less...you'd get burnt!

crisp plenty of people make uninvited comments about fat people and their weight, it's almost as if some people are rude there is however a culture that promotes women being as small and dainty as possible, regardless of how healthy it is.
My best friend is very slim and tall and gets far fewer comments about her weight than I do, most of those happen to be hilarious comparisons between us and Laurel and Hardy.

Women's clothing isn't standardised because women come in so many different shapes and sizes. There's more variation than there is with men.

Men's clothing can be standardised as most men will fit into something with their correct shoulder or waist measurements. Not all men, but enough that high street stores aren't financially damaged by not providing anything. Most men will have broader shoulders than their chest, and their hips and butt are unlikely to be significantly wider than their waist. So anything with the right shoulder or waist measurement will hang ok. Might not be a great looking fit, but it'll fit.

With women you often have, say, someone with very narrow shoulders, a large bust, a tiny waist, narrow hips and thick thighs. Or someone with broad shoulders, a small bust, a wide waist and narrow hips. Or someone with narrow shoulders, a small bust, a small waist, very wide hips and thighs and then slim calves.

If you make everything the same size across the board then anyone with certain areas larger or smaller than 'average' is shut out. And that's most women. So we have to shop around and find the cuts and stores that suit us. It's no good saying 'these jeans fits me great and thus this should be the standard for this size', as for everyone like you there'll be 10 others it doesn't work for despite them having the same waist measurement.