Help and advice....at what point do I reject the apologies?

[foursillybeans]

DD is 13. She is a generally good girl. Has just a few friends at school but is very sensitive so gets upset by friends easily and can be a bit withdrawn. She can be awful to me verbally. She screams, shouts, rages and cries at me all the time. She is rarely happy as such. Every thing is a problem. Hair brushing, teeth cleaning, reading a book, turn tv off, help me stack the dishwasher, get your school bag ready, have some fruit, come shopping with me, treat in a cafe, almost everything. I just can't take much more screaming at me or yelling in my face. I work and we have 3 DC in total. DD is eldest. Time is short but we do everything for our DC. We never leave them or go out really. Maybe once every 3 months. But nothing is enough for DD.

Anyway the point is I feel I am not being unreasonable to ask her to pack her school bag, clean her teeth at bedtime or go up to bed at 8.30pm. After 30 mins of screaming at me, she hates me, I hate her, etc then she comes back down and asks for a hug and writes a note saying how sorry she is. This is every night. Am I being unreasonable to say no hug, you are being rude, if you are sorry you stop not do it all again the next night?

Is this my DD? Lol not helpful I know

Mines also in trouble at school which is FUN
I always give the hug. A lot of this can be about feeling really Crap about growing up and everything seeming stressful.
It's awful to know the apology doesn't mean much the next day but never avoid affection or an apology when it is given or she might stop even doing that and then you would feel worse

I don't talk to my DD when she is angry it's pointless. Try to talk to her when she is calm, and you may have to repeat yourself for 3 years about not being rude and doing as told but don't give up trying
I think it will go in one day....
Punish bad behaviour though, I am not saying to not to

Oh no, I don't own a teen but work with them.

I couldn't deal with that constantly. Could you quit the treats and let ger sort her own bag out.

Dd is thirteen and I have a dd 23 so have been through it once before and learned a few things. My tips would be to ignore all mutterings under her breath, any filthy looks, stomps, strops and door slamming unless she is directly rude or abusive to you pretend you haven't noticed.

Have some rules in place and make sure she knows the consequences beforehand so swearing at me or calling me names would get a consequence regardless of whether she apologised.
Let her know your expectations around bed times, bag packing,teeth cleaning and offer incentives for doing them without needing you to remind her so going to bed on time with all tasks completed during the week would be a later bedtime at the weekend.Not meeting that expectation would be 8.30 bedtime at the weekend as well.8.30 is really early though for 13 dd goes at 10pm in the week and when she wants at the weekend.
Let her take the consequences at school for not packing her bag don't intervene she'll buck her ideas up after a detention or two.
Try and spend a bit of time one on one and give her the chance to talk I used to take dd for cake and hot chocolate most weeks just sothat we got the chance to spend time together without stress and hang in there it doesn't last forever dd1 is a really nice person now when there were times when I could have cheerfully throttled her tbh

I do kind of agree with bed times mine are more amenable to doing things to help and less rude once I let them up a little later in the evenings

Perhaps you could work out a reward and punishment system. For example if your DD does all the things you ask, she can go to bed later (8:30 does sound a little early for a 13 year old). If she does not do what you ask then she has to go to bed earlier and if she is then rude and screams then consequences are introduced - such as no tv or confiscating games/phones etc. This approach will need will power and consistency but if you can see it through then you only need the threat of early to bed or removal of belongings to encourage your DD to behave appropriately.

My DD kind of starts each day with all her privileges. Then as the day goes (wear) on they are removed for bad behaviour but she can sometimes earn them back with what we call a gesture of kindness and goodwill so she may have lost the iPad in the morning but I come in from work and she has done the washing up and can earn it back.
It's time consuming though. And doesn't always work
She has to apologise to me before bed about rudeness also

Unfortunately is parents are the brunt for all the stress and angst in their life. I do feel a certain amount of sympathy for teens growing up in today's society. They have to grow up so early but they are not necessarily emotionally mature enough to cope with it all. I'm all for hugs and would never shun the emotional connection but also against rudeness so I would stand firm against this.

This is ' generally gpod' ??? Sounds hell. Has she always been this ghastly? Is she ever calm enough to tell you why she treats you like this?

I am in awe of your patience and stamina.

I think a lot of teenage girls go through this phase. I did. They can't really see how hurtful it is half the time. They just feel all of the angst

My 8 year old twins go to bed later than that. I'm not surprised she gets cross about this. It's far too early, especially when it's so light in the summer. And yes to 'generally a good girl' - you what??? She doesn't sound like it!

Constantly causing a fuss isnt generally good not that she is bad or anything just sounds hard work. She knows she has to sort her school bag you dont need to tell her she doesnt need told to brush her teeth she should know what i had to do with mine was step back she is 13 you have to let her be responsible for herself a bit more ignore the muttering dont argue with her and calm down your house sounds highly dramatic for simple things gentle reminders instead of instructions seemed to work better for me when my dds were that age

foursillybeans, not sure what 'the problem' is here. It doesn't sound quite normal to get so emotionally agitated over so many things, screaming over bed-time, but some kids are like that for whatever reason (ADHD, ADD, bi-polar, extreme hormone issues and so forth). Which may explain why she is "never happy as such" .

I think 13 is a strange time, as I have found with my own son aged 13 (who has mild ADHD). But he is also maturing recently so there are positives to look forward to ...

Re. your list of things, maybe my initial thoughts were to limit your involvement. Teeth-brushing and bed-times enforce. But school bag, hairbrushing, reading a book etc - best to ignore and let her go her own way? Have some firm boundaries in other words, a couple of structures in place to support her (how's her homework?), but let the rest go and get on with your own life. Anyway, thats what I've found helps.

I don't think it's helpful to make people worry their child has an underlying mental health or neurological problem
Girls IMO do tend to be quite over emotional and irrational at times. Even more so when they are hormonal. I have 2 hormonal ones. But respect is a whole other issue in itself and has to be reminded!

I am not trying to worry people, Myuser. Just put out possible perspectives, reasons for unusual, worrying and irrational behaviour. Many eenagers do have underlying neurological or mental health problems and just putting it down to bad behaviour isn't always a helpful approach. I also made point that 13 year olds are often over-emotional as this stage in their lives and that could be one reason. Screaming for half an hour etc could mean several things, and I think threads like this just offer different perspectives, including the simply hormonal one (that I did actually). The parent can then mull over what applies to them. We obviously don't know the whole picture. Just saying "hormonal" can be a cop out for some teenagers, whilst others it is totally valid.

Oh, poor thing. I asked DD why she freaked out & she couldn't explain at all. But at least DD (like OP's DD) reaches a point of knowing she has been totally unreasonable.

Can you find triggers, or could you sit down when she's in a good mood & make an agreed schedule with her, exactly what to do in timings that she thinks she has control of? Else, at start of tantrum I know I'd end up saying "Okay, so every night you scream at me for 30 minutes then do what I asked anyway, then write me an apology letter after an hour. Could we just skip all that, even the letter so you can get on with doing the inevitable jobs without noise & drama?" Try to chivvy DD out of her locked mindset.

What is her consequence for speaking to you rudely? Cos having to write an apology letter and nothing more is the sort of 'punishment' I'd expect for a child no older than six.

How about a little bit of old fashioned self respect, op? How about bellowing "DD HOW DARE YOU SPEAK TO ME LIKE THAT, CLOSE YOUR MOUTH IMMEDIATELY OR I WILL CUT EVERY WIRE YOU OWN!!!!!"

8:30pm is very early for a 13 year old, I think I was more like 8 years old when I had an 8:30 bed time maybe letting her go to bed when she's actually tired would help.

As for the school bag etc why not stop telling her to do it and let her deal with the consequences when she hasn't got her things ready and forgets things?

8.30's early but I can see why the OP wants her in bed.

I would not accept written apologies from now on. I'd say they have to be face to face. And I'd let her suffer the consequences with her bag, too. Is she worse just before her period? It might be worth her understanding when she's pre-menstrual and connecting it to her moods.