Leaving teenagers at home during family holiday

[mull66]

DD1 15 (16 this summer) insists that she is old enough not to go on family holiday. Personally I do not feeling comfortable leaving her as is simply too young. Would love to go somewhere with the family but she says she hates us and wants to stay at home and work to get money for festival spending etc. have asked my friends about this who say they would take their teens on holiday and would never leave them alone for a week but DD1 says that none of her friends are going on family holidays and I know that some of them have already been left alone over night but personally I think that's neglegant parenting. AIBU to make her come on holiday? Have offered her residential course alternatives or staying with grandparents but she says it's lame and she would just leave. What should I do?

I agree with everyone who says it depends on the teenager and your family circumstances , where you live etc.

Though I'm a bit suprised at the family who left their 16yo at home for two years while they went to Africa. That sounds less like training for independence and more like abandonment to me.

We planned our last holiday with our teenagers, but it probably helps that they are very close in age so enjoy similar things. Also their interests aren't too far from ours, so we don't have to compromise too much. If your children are further apart in age and you have holidays aimed at younger children (especially involving beaches, pools, all inclusive resorts aimed at families and not teens) I can see why that wouldn't be much fun for a teen.

We live somewhere with sunshine, beaches etc so tend to do that on the weekend (often without them) and more exploring and city type stuff on holiday.

whois

My post was in response to a poster who implied all teens like that kind of holiday.

My parents dragged me on holidays I hated. I never went with them again after 14.

A bit of a warning ...I know I was a 'difficult' teen ...but...
My parents were insisting I went on holiday with them (and my younger siblings) when I was 15 nearly 16. Main reason they were forcing me to go was they were leaving my 17/18 yo sister at home and they knew we would fall out..
I decided no way was I going ...so I ran away ...
I packed a suitcase and hid it in a friend's shed. Then 2 days before the holiday I told them I was just going into town to do some shopping and I'd be back late (10ish) cos I was going to a friend's house (who lived just up the road) so they saw me leave with no bags etc.
Plan was to stay in the flat of an older boy who I vaguely knew about 10 miles away (now I think I was insane ) but missed buses etc and pre-mobile phones it all went hideously wrong. Luckily I ran into a girl who I knew slightly and her parents were quite laid back - they bought a cock and bull story and said I could stay (now I think WTF?) - but it was only about a mile or so from my parents.

I had left a note for them -under my dad's pyjamas - so he found it when he was getting ready for bed - telling them I'd be back in 2 weeks...
I kept a low profile until I thought they'd gone but they delayed the start of their holiday for a couple of days looking for me ...I was walking up the road as they were driving past leaving. Honestly I think they were just relieved I was somewhere safe and left me without much fuss ....also I guess they knew it would be hellish for everyone if they tried to make me go .

"There's no way I'd leave either of them to fend for themselves for two years at this point in their lives. dh and I are talking about moving to another country for a while, but we'll wait until our children are at university and independent. Taking massive risks with the last two years of their education seems very unwise to me."

The course on offer at the International School was the International Baccalaureate. They don't do music technology, which was the subject our son wanted to do most of all - together with maths and physics. He found out he could do the course he wanted at the high school local to our house in England. He suggested it. We weren't happy at first, but he talked us round. As the time drew nearer, we became more comfortable and he started to get cold feet. We were teachers, so obviously cared about his education. But from 16, education is their own responsibility - we could only advise.

He actually traveled back when he was still 15 (August birthday) and everything was fine. Whenever we came back to visit the house was still there - no evidence of wild parties.

Lots of people live on their own from 16. It's legal, and I've yet to meet a 16-year-old who didn't seem capable (and I've met a lot of 16-year-olds).

"Though I'm a bit suprised at the family who left their 16yo at home for two years while they went to Africa. That sounds less like training for independence and more like abandonment to me."

See above. The essential point is that it was his idea. And you can't force a 16-year-old to live with their parents.

But to clarify - we didn't go to Africa, we were already there. We moved when our son was 14 and at that point we gave him a choice: come with - new school/friends/culture (but British curriculum - Cambridge IGCSE)... OR stay at his old school as a boarder (he already had some boarding experience so it wouldn't have been a shock).

He chose to come with us, but no way would we have forced him to. That would have been unfair. He enjoyed it, but after IGCSE decided he wanted something different.

And of course we didn't abandon him. We paid for everything, and we visited twice a year. He was happy with the arrangement, and he learned to cook/do his laundry/get himself to school.

Obviously not everyone will find themselves in this situation. We did, and the solution worked.

I decided no way was I going ...so I ran away ...

This is exactly what I anticipated in my (very) upthread post! So I clearly wasn't being unrealistic.

And very cunning to pack a bag in advance...

My parents agreed to leave me for the first time the summer of the year I was in lower sixth at 17, weeks away from 18. Just asked DH and his parents did the same. My parents said from the time I was about 13 or 14 and moaning that I had to go for as long as I was in compulsory education.

God, I'm really surprised, I hadn't even considered that DS (16 in May) wouldn't want to come on a family holiday this summer. We made him stay at a friends on Saturday night while we were away over night. I was left most weekends at that age as my mum was in a new relationship, looking back I had a great time but I did feel a bit neglected by it so I think that has a bearing on how I am with DS.
We did give him and his brother plenty of freedom on holiday last year.
How times change, me and DH were wanting to call it a day at midnight and the teens were were pushing for a later one

I have a 15 and a 16 year old and they both need (and want) support. I'm really glad it worked out for you and your son, but I don't know anyone who thinks that education is the child's responsibility from 16. Post secondary, sure, but A levels and their equivalent are hard work, pressures on older teens numerous and then there are tricky things like relationships to manage too. It's also a time when mental health issues can emerge and when many children experiment with alcohol and drugs with little life experience to help them make good judgements.

I know a few families who have been in your situation and they have either chosen boarding school or their child has lived with relatives or close family friends. That it's not illegal is neither here nor there in my mind. Teenagers are vulnerable and I find as mine get older I become more rather than less concerned about them.

However I'm well aware that in some countries children have to grow up a hell of a lot faster which probably influenced your decision, and obviously it worked out for you. My two wouldn't make the same choices, they'd be incredibly lonely on their own apart from anything else.

I use to get left when I was 16. Looking back I wished I'd gone with them and had a few more hols with my lovely parents but at the time I just wanted a bit of independence. Not sure how I'd feel if it was my son wanting to stay though, fortunately he's only 8. On the other hand my DH was never allowed to stay in the house alone. Right up until he left home At 23!! I supposed it depends on how you feel about it and if you think your dd is responsible enough.

I'm really glad it worked out for you and your son, but I don't know anyone who thinks that education is the child's responsibility from 16.

I meant this in the legal sense. The government thinks education is the young person's responsibility. (Not child, not at 16 and 17.) Even with the raising of the education participation age to 18 (not the case then, of course), parents only have to ensure their offspring are educated until the school leaving age (currently the last Friday in June provided they will be 16 by the end of the summer holidays). Not sure if that applied when we were in Lesotho...

But my point is that education from 16 to 18 was and is the responsibility of the young person, not their parents. A parent should advise, and we did. And as a teacher I have seen some very unhappy sixth-formers who did what their parents wanted rather than what they themselves wanted. It was a waste of two years for them.

So we had the family discussion, and the optimum solution was to go with our son's plan. Realistically, he could have done it without our consent. Except he needed us to pay his air fare home. If we had decided to send him to boarding school he could have refused to go or walked out once he got there. But perhaps I'm making him sound like a stroppy teenager who was always arguing - he wasn't. Quite the opposite, but perhaps that was because we listened to his point of view and allowed him to persuade us - by logical reasoning - whenever his plan made sense. And there is no doubt in my mind that, had we not funded him, he would have worked to pay his way through sixth-form. In a sense he was housesitting.

And he cooks a wonderful Christmas dinner.

Well I guess it's just a different viewpoint. In my family education is expected until 21. There was no option to drop out at 16, would never have crossed my mind or that of my cousins. That doesn't mean that I think that children should get no choices, I chose my O levels and my A levels, and the school I went to at sixth form too. I jut wouldn't have been given an option that involved me living alone at that age.

I'd say that education will my child's responsibility at 16 too. I'm not going to force her to go to Uni or anything. Here, at 16 is when they choose whether to go to academic high school or vocational high school (or stop school altogether but that's rare) and I'll leave the choice up to her including what school she'll go to (if she wants to go to a specialist school in a city far away that's her choice). I'll probably encourage vocational school though unless she's very academically inclined as the vocational school is in our town and its much easier to get a good job with a vocational qualification.

Well I guess it's just a different viewpoint. In my family education is expected until 21. There was no option to drop out at 16, would never have crossed my mind or that of my cousins. That doesn't mean that I think that children should get no choices, I chose my O levels and my A levels, and the school I went to at sixth form too. I jut wouldn't have been given an option that involved me living alone at that age.

I think you are missing the point. DS1 has an MSc - but it was his choice. DS2 lived by himself while doing his A levels - and again it was his choice. Nowhere did I suggest dropping out at 16 - and nowadays it wouldn't be legal anyway. DS2 wanted to do A levels - in a particular choice of subjects. He did not want to do the IB. We accommodated his choices.

Of course we all have aspirations for our children - but what is best for them isn't necessary concordant with our ambitions. Sometimes you have to let them make the decisions.

And as for not being given an option - a parent doesn't have that level of control over a 16-year-old. But you make it sound as if I'm advocating young people living on their own from 16 - of course I'm not. The majority of them do and will continue to live with their parents while they do their A levels or whatever, and they will be perfectly happy. My point was that sometimes circumstances dictate a different approach, and if parents work with it rather than throwing up their hands in horror then a successful conclusion can be reached.

So to get back to the OPs original question - should her daughter be left alone while parents go on holiday - yes, of course. For the following reasons:

That's what she wants to do. (Had she wanted to go away with them, that would be fine too.)

At 16, she should be completely capable of looking after herself.

She wants to work - that's very laudable, especially considering the number of threads about lazy teens.

She cannot be forced to go against her will, despite what the "insist" brigade may think. So she may vote with her feet, as one PP actually did.

I must admit, the comments about her saying "I hate you" do suggest a lack of maturity, but consider this:

If she really is a bit immature, a couple of weeks fending for herself might make her grow up a bit.

But I suspect the tantrum is really her venting her utter frustration that her mum is refusing to even consider what is a perfectly reasonable - and fairly normal - request.

Leonard - like a PP , I'm glad to hear that it worked out ok for your son . I think people are suprised because your solution is a very unusual one .

I think it's quite common to have dilemmas about education, especially if you are an expat. But most families solve these by moving the whole family, using boarding schools , sending their teen to live with relatives or distance learning . I've never heard of anyone sending their 15 year old to live alone in the UK.

I do think it's odd that you were in Africa teaching other people's children , while letting your own child live alone on another continent to further his secondary education.

This isn't about choice, no one on this thread has advocated forcing children or young people to study against their wishes . But choice works both ways, and I wonder why you and your wife / partner didn't make a different choice for your own careers to prioritise your son .

I just think it's rather sad that your child was forced to choose between living with his parents through a A level studies and doing the course he wanted to. Most people would have found a different compromise .

It's entirely different at FE level, as many young people leave home and mostly their love with others , in university accomation or shared flats. And they are usually 18, not 15.

Living away from home from 16 for educational purposes is really not that unusual - children at vocational schools frequently do this and I know many who do. ( dancers / musicians ).

Leonard - like a PP , I'm glad to hear that it worked out ok for your son . I think people are suprised because your solution is a very unusual one .

I think it's quite common to have dilemmas about education, especially if you are an expat. But most families solve these by moving the whole family, using boarding schools , sending their teen to live with relatives or distance learning . I've never heard of anyone sending their 15 year old to live alone in the UK.

I think you also may have missed the point. As I said upthread, we did move the whole family - when he was 14. And we didn't force him then, either - we offered boarding as an alternative (and he wouldn't even have had to move schools for that) - so it was his choice to move to Africa with us. Actually, we didn't move his brother - he was at uni.
And with three of our own parents dead, one very elderly, me being an only child... Living with relatives was never going to be an option.

I just think it's rather sad that your child was forced to choose between living with his parents through a A level studies and doing the course he wanted to. Most people would have found a different compromise .

I'm not sure what sort of different compromise would have been possible. And we would have liked him to stay with us, ideally. But - and this is the essential point which you seem to be missing - he didn't want to. He wanted to return to the UK and do his chosen A level course. And he was 16 (by the time he started). So how could we deny him the right to choose his own destiny? In the UK, 16-year-olds can move out of the parental home. (Actually, ours moved back in.) Strictly speaking they need parental permission to do this (although in practice not). After due deliberation, we were happy to give him our full consent. And he made a go of it, now has a successful career, and we get on really well - as we always have done.

I think my real point is that a lot of people on here seem to seriously underestimate the capabilities of 16-year-olds. My example is meant to show that - given the opportunity - young people can be very capable indeed.

I'm not missing the point that this is what your son wanted . I get that completely . But I would not have put my child in the position of having to chose between his education and his family at the age of 15.

But that's just me , it's your family and your life. I'm glad it worked out for you all .

But I would not have put my child in the position of having to chose between his education and his family at the age of 15.

Did we do that? Perhaps we shouldn't have moved when he was 14. (About to start GCSEs - not part-way through them.) Yet there was another thread some time ago where the OP was asking if she should do something similar and the consensus was to make her (the OP's daughter) go. I was in the minority that time - I suggested giving her a choice. We certainly gave our son a choice - he could have boarded at his existing school - but he chose Africa.

Two years later, he chose the UK. I fail to see how we "put him in the position..." Especially since his choice was based on his wanting to do a particular A level subject which not all schools offer and which he hadn't even been aware of two years previously. It's all about adapting to changing circumstances.

We would have been quite happy for him to go back as a boarder at 16 - we gave him that choice too - but it didn't suit because, yet again, that school didn't offer his preferred subject.

And in any case - going back to your quoted statement above - surely boarding is as much a case of choosing between education and family as living independently is. Yet lots of pupils board and totally enjoy it. They see their families in the holidays - as did our son.

But, to reiterate my main point, what seems to be coming out of this thread is that many parents think 16-year-olds either shouldn't be, or are not capable of, living independently. I totally disagree with that.

And in any case - going back to your quoted statement above - surely boarding is as much a case of choosing between education and family as living independently is. Yet lots of pupils board and totally enjoy it

I was not making that statement about boarding, I was referring to your choice to have your 15 year old son live alone in the UK while you pursued your career in Africa .

That's not the same as boarding school . Most boarders go " home " at least at half term, if not to their parents to other family or friends . Indeed many schools close then. There is pastoral support and your friends who are in the same situation. Its really not the same as living alone in a house and attending day school , when all of your classmates live at home with their families and yours are in another continent . You already said you had no family nearby .

Anyway, as I ve said before, I'm glad it worked out for you and your son even though it's not a choice I would make for my children .

I'm sorry OP , this seems to be derailing your thread . Have you decided what to do about your DD?

I was referring to your choice to have your 15 year old son live alone in the UK

No, it was not our choice, it was his choice, with our agreement (after we had thought long and hard about it). And he was 16 - he was 15 when he flew back - on his own - but he became 16 shortly after. And I am fully aware as to how boarding schools work - I was a houseparent for fifteen years.

But I have been trying to get back to the OPs original question for some time. I'm in the yes camp, because 16-year-olds are perfectly capable of looking after themselves, and should not be prevented from doing so if that's what they want.
I was using my son as an example to make the point that if someone that age can live independently for two years then two weeks ought to be easy. Unfortunately, a few people seem to have picked up on this and are putting a very negative connotation on it.

Leonard your very defensive about it. Kristina is entitled to her opinion as you are yours. She is not condemning you just saying that she wouldn't even have given her child the choice..... by that she would have come home with him, as would I .

Parents giving up their jobs, possibly their careers when their child is perfectly capable of managing by themselves is just silly. I only know one family that moved with their 16 year old who chose a school away from home and they were an immigrant family so they weren't used to concept that 16 year olds can and do manage their schooling and living by themselves.

Yes but once again I am not refuting some 16 year olds can manage I am saying I wouldn't do it to mine at sixteen.....