Self harming teenager

[GnomeDePlume]

Apologies for this. I just need to write this down.

I am starting to think of the self-harm as being a parasite, like threadworms or head lice. It isnt the person, it is something feeding off the host teenager. Also, it is contagious.

And like thread worms or head lice it is extremely unlikely to clear up on its own.

My DD first started self harming about 2 years ago when she was 13. This outbreak was apparently in response to a difficult, bullying friendship. It was apparently just a week of scratching and cutting herself with scissors.

We reacted by surrounding DD with love and tried to help her build her confidence and distance herself from this bullying friendship. It seemed that the problem was solved.

Then about 6 months ago I noticed marks on DD's legs. Not cuts this time. I asked DD about them and got brushed off. I wasnt sure what the problem was but I was fairly sure it wasnt totally innocent. At the same time DD was 15 so I didnt feel in a position to force her to get help except in the practical sense of going to see the nurse to make sure that the marks on her legs were healing.

DD started leaving her legs exposed but was now covering her arms. Once or twice she would not cover up completely and I would see a mark. I asked her about these marks and would get brushed off.

Fast forward to yesterday. DD came downstairs with vomit on her clothes. In the early hours she had taken a shed load of paracetamol and other over the counter tablets. She was vomiting, feeling very ill. On medical advice (we are literally round the corner from our doctor who DH saw within 5 minutes) DH took DD to A&E. DD is now in hospital receiving treatment to protect her liver while the tablets work through.

Now looking back I can see that we made the mistake of thinking that the initial self harming would cure itself. It didnt and I wonder if our treatment made the problem worse by both rewarding the self harm and also pushing it out of sight. We didnt talk about the self harm, we wanted DD to focus on what we saw as the cause.

This was our mistake. We should have got help immediately for that first outbreak. Now the infection of self harm is worse. DD is older so her self harm has got more sophisticated. What a mess this is. We didnt do enough. We didnt take this seriously enough. Because of that DD has risked her life.

I spoke to the nurse in the children's ward where DD has been admitted. They see half a dozen or more self harm patients a week. So there are probably hundreds of families going through this today. If you are one of them you have my heartfelt sympathy.

ripening, you deserve a lot of credit for alerting your MP to the problems in the system as this will contribute (hopefully) to a better service. I hope the psychiatric assessment is helpful for your DD.

Thank you Majestic. Am completely drained. Back from Sainsbury's and off soon to collect her from a pizza and film night with new school friends. We talked last night for three hours after she had chosen the psychiatrist from the list.

I hope it's ok to join in, I'm having similar problems with my dd 13. We were told in January that she was self harming after her friends encouraged her to tel a teacher. She was seen at first by the school nurse and then by a counselling service that came into school it seemed to help and DH and I were quick to believe all was ok. Then in July she broke down I tears and told DH she was doing it again, in fact had t really stopped. She said that the sessions with both the school nurse and the counsellor were useless, that they focussed on the SH but not the cause and were very drippy types who'd lean their head and just ask if she was ok.

I think until then I'd been a bit in denial, dd has always been so confident and strong it was a shock to see her sobbing and talking about being very down and having negative thoughts. There were positive too though in that she wanted to tell her older sister (16) who has benn a great support even though until then they were all that close. Dd1 has also told me how common it is at school and that was a bit of a shocker, she's been amazing but were mindful of her feelings though this too.

When it all came out this time dd decided that she wanted to stop the SH, this was totally her decision however it's clearly just a symptom so we needed to help her with how she's feeling. We went to our GP (brilliant and a mother of teens) who talked about CAMHs but we also had Bupa and I got the feeling our gp was trying to indicate that the Bupa route might be better.

Dd has an assessment at The Priory with a consultant psychiatrist who said that she was coming out of a depressed stage and he felt there was no need for medication, but suggested therapy would help. This was at the beginning of the school holidays and it took until September for that therapy to start as a lot of the therapist were full or on holiday. Dd was ok not great but ok and it did seem that school make her feel worse so we held on.

She has now had three sessions of CBT and thank goodness likes her therapist. I did ask the priory to ensure she didn't get someone drippy and they were very good and finding her a good match although that may be in part why a took a bit of time. The first session was more of a getting to know you one, dd was please that she didn't just have to fill I yet another form with a load of tick boxes.

A few days after the getting to know you session dd had a really bad day and didn't want to leave her room, she sobbed and sobbed and said things like 'I feel so bad but I don't want to hurt you and Dad'. After a while I braved it and asked her if she was having suicidal thoughts and she nodded and my heart sank. God it's hard. Anyway within a day or two she was much happier and brighter and I wonder if she felt some relief in having told me and having a good old cry and lots of hugs.

Since then she's had two further sessions and we're off again today. Fortunately appointments are on Saturdays not during a school day so nobody would know. She it taking what the therapist tells her very seriously, she's given 'homework' which she does and is very useful. For example at the end of last week she had a bad situation with some frienDs which led to her having a very bad time but after her session she said that she realised she'd actually had a good week apart from that one thing. However because she did react badly to the situation with friends and was feeling very low her therapist suggested that she sees the consultant again with a view to medication.

So we have an appointment with the consultant next week, I am not sure that dd needs medication. It is true she had some very dark days but she also has a lot of time when she's happy and laughing her socks off with her brother and sister and even her parents . I'm very concerned about what I've read regarding young people and anti depressants and also the idea that she might feel even worse for the first few weeks. I think she's had a good week this week and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she doesn't need to take anything, but I realise that it may be the way we need to go.

In the meantime at the beginning of the week it was one hundred days since she last SH'd, we bought a cake and planned a mini celebration and dd decided that she'd tell Ds who is a year younger, what's been going on so he didn't wonder what the cake was all about. They are so competitive with each other and bikker all the time, but he gave her a massive hug (I may have accidentally been walking outside his door) and said he was really sorry and they had a long chat which was lovely.

So I can see glimmers of light, but still moment of dark and a young girl who is struggling with he world and we just have to hope that she knows she is loved and it keeps her strong. Our Bupa funding runs out after 7 sessions, today will be four it's £140 a go and if we have to we will pay but it's a huge amount and it's not going to be easy. I don't really understand because there's no cap on sessions with the consultant who must cost more but a cap on therapy.

Sorry it's been so long, but I think I neded to get that all down.

Welcome Angela. I am sorry you and your daughter are going this.

It is good that you can talk to your daughter about this. It is very hard.

My DD is now 3 years on from the first outbreak. Unfortunately it came back with a vengeance this year..

It is difficult to get the right counselling. I know what you mean about the wishy washy head tilt thing.

I think that it is difficult for teens to say when something isnt working for them.

Here to join in as well

I was told by dd13s head of year on Friday that she had been sh. We had absolutely no idea. She's the eldest of five and I didn't think we'd ever deal with something like this. Hoy said she'd told a friend who went to the teacher.
I took her out yesterday to do a bit of shopping, the something to eat. We made a list of things that were bothering her and how to tackle them.
It didn't seem like much and I knew them all really. We're going to tackle the biggest one this week - her room is very untidy and she needs help to sort it.
I asked her what she had been doing and she showed me. She had about three of four marks on her wrist crossways which looked a bit like cat scratches. She said she only started last weekend.
I don't know whether to be relieved that it didn't look bad and had only just started. I don't want to just dismiss it but I had imagined worse.
I agreed with hoy to start with the school nurse, then their counsellor.
I'm not sure what I should do next? She went directly to her godmother from school on Friday. She talked with her and gm made her promise not to do it again and how would dh and I feel is she did something worse. I know that they were wrong things to say. I told dd that I wouldn't make her promise to stop, but maybe think of something else like an elastic band.

neddle, oh no. I know what you mean. We didnt think this was something we would ever have to deal with.

Dont dismiss it. Our mistake when DD started at 13 was to think that having dealt with the initial problems was to think 'okay, that's sorted'.

Do encourage your DD to engage with the counselling but also if she doesnt find that the counselling from school is helpful to go to your GP.

Do make sure that she knows that she is allowed to say if the counselling isnt working.

SH is insidious. It is a bit like that first cigarette. It can seem like a way of coping and then it becomes something which has to be coped with.

Very hectic. Will post properly next week. Good wishes to all.

I agree with gnome I'm afraid neddle. DD had a little episode when she was 11/12 - had a few sessions with a counsellor and all seemed well until June this year. DD wants to stop but can't without help. Please don't dismiss,what your dd is going through. Please remain vigilant. I'd no idea this would raise its head again or the extent of dd's anxiety/turmoil.

ripeningapples pointed me towards this thread last night after I started one of my own in desperation looking for advice on how to get help for my 14yo dd who has been battling against depression for almost a year now. I've just read all the way through and while I'm truly sorry that everyone is going through such hell I am so very grateful to know that I am not alone.

ripening the best advice you gave me last night, in a clear and concise list of useful pointers, was actually to stay cool, calm and collected as I fight dd's corner. I have recently been quite close to losing it with professionals as I get sent deeper into the Kafkaesque nightmare of "doesn't meet the threshold for intervention" (but let's all wait until she gets a lot worse then she will meet the threshold and we'll be OK to talk turkey...) and it is clear to me that every time I get emotional about my daughter's mental health their respect for me diminishes and I get put down as the neurotic mother of an attention seeking daughter! Today with my own emotions under control I explained dd's escalating crisis thoroughly and clearly to our GP (who to be fair has been sympathetic and supportive and as frustrated with CAMHS as we are for months now) and he came back to me within two hours having secured an offer from CAMHS for "Tier 3 intervention", which I think means 1-1 counselling but time will tell. It's a step on from where we were before when "sleep hygiene" seemed to be the best they could offer...

scout. I'm delighted it seems you are getting somewhere. We have all had fuck awful journeys with this. Sometimes it seems a wondrous relief that your head stops hurting when you stop banging it against a brick wall.

DD has had her psychiatric assessment today. She is formally diagnosed as mildly depressed. She connected with the psychiatrist to the extent she is prepared to see a male therapist because the psychiatrist has recommended he would be best for her.

She has recommended four sessions and a further assessment with her then to see if it's enough/the right thing before prescribing anti-depressants. She also confirmed dd is anxious by nature and that is part of her psyche. She felt it was depression from within and it was hugely reassuring to have affirmation that dd has a good life and it's an internal thing rather than due to external stuff or a bad life.

It was reassuring too that having connected dd could rationalise that the CAMHS nurse and therapist she saw just hadn't understood.

I told the psychiatrist that a "friend" of mine had defined sh as a bit like nits with every outbreak needing treatment. She said that once they got the right treatment it was a question of routine maintenance thereafter because families and them had the tools to cope.

With love to all you and yours.

ripening Good to hear the relief in your post! I hope I'm not rejoicing prematurely that we appear to be getting somewhere. It's quite possibly the euphoria of appearing to take any kind of step forward rather than running flat out and getting nowhere. Ask me again in a week and let's see where we are then.

I was shocked when DD began her headlong career into what seems quite a persistent depression and no one seemed to notice. Self-harm, lethargy, insomnia, uncharacteristically bad behaviour at school, days when she reports that the world seems without colour or life of any kind, lack of appetite, reckless and self-destructive behaviour. Not all at once and not without relief but persistent and recurring. And yet no one but me seems to have been willing to call it depression. Partly because DD is so afraid of being labelled "mental" that she tries to disguise the worst of her pain and as a result is mistaken for an attention seeker by people who really aren't listening carefully enough. She has a touchstone teacher at school who she turns to when she can't cope and who has been a lifesaver, she has me, but we are mere sticking plasters to a wounded soul. I am genuinely shocked that provision for wounded teenagers is so hard to come by and that there are so few signposts through the system for their battle weary parents!

I hope we have begun today to get her the help she needs. As I hope that you have also.

Virtual >>hug

Little thought. And I might get some therapy myself to get to the bottom of this. I was mildly anorexic in my 20s (looking back). Only 7st 9lb at my worst but 5'7". Never formally treated but lived on the edge of disordered eating for a very and time. My childhood was fraught and disordered. I am very resilient by nature but it does make me wonder if there is a genetic self destruct button. I have often wondered how dd would have fared as my mother's daughter.

So yesterday in a TAC meeting at DD's school the whole dispiriting cycle began all over again. School professionals offloading responsibility for why DD is as low as she is ("she's not being bullied as badly as she thinks she is", "she comes to us with bigger and bigger problems because she's scared of losing our attention", "we're concerned that she seems to be seeking attention when she doesn't need to", "if she could only keep her head down and pull herself together"); GP saying "it is my view that this child is probably depressed but I need to defer to my CAMHS colleagues for a more expert opinion"; CAMHS offering up the thought that because she has a pattern of disengaging with any counselling that's offered she probably doesn't really need it and is merely flirting with being thought interestingly depressed!

DD herself came into the last half hour of the meeting, managed to stay very cool and composed, challenged some of the prevailing views about her, said that nothing that had been done so far had touched the sides of her unhappiness and why was it that all the professional people around the table were unable to understand that she had frequently over the last 18 months been so deeply unhappy that she wanted to die.

The CAMHS worker seems to see a drama-loving teenager with poor interpersonal skills when she looks at DD, and by extension a poor mother who has failed to foster sufficient resilience in her child when she looks at me. So I left feeling that for all the good will from individual teachers and a supportive but relatively powerless GP, I am once more essentially on my own trying to get help for my child. If "I am so unhappy that I have wanted to die" to that body of people isn't a good enough working definition of depressed-and-badly-in-need-of-urgent-support then I don't know what is.

I'm sorry you have had a bad time.. That sounds really hard and not very constructive on their part. I find writing these things down really clearly helps me to get the situation straight in my head and then to be able to rationalise it and articulate what my DD needs.

I found it very helpful to contact Young Minds Parent help line and they arranged a parents' support call for me. The lady couldn't waveca magic wand but her empathy and advice were empowering.

I also called Heads Together ( not sure how nationwide they ate) who are a charity who can assess and offer counselling for our young ones. Much of the counselling is provided voluntarily by counsellors who need to fulfil the hours required for registration but they are all supervised. More importantly they offer support sessions for parents like us. I have two booked one about depression and one about self harm.

Most of all I think parents like us need a more formal support network than is available. Something like an NCT for parents of challenging teenagers.

I hope everyone else is chugging along OKish.

With love x

I have just read this post through...it saddens me to think of other families and teenagers going through this as well. My son has started to self harm (17y, see post) When I first saw his legs and arms ....I just didn't know how to respond....Then I found scissors and a sharp piece of glass in his room when be stayed the other night( currently taken himself off to his Dads) I just feel devastated.... All I want is to take away his pain and 'fix' him. I know its going to be a long painful process. Mental Health Assessment today. Thoughts with you all. Lots of love x

Things have been quite quiet recently. DD's scratching seems to have abated for now. I was a bit (lot) annoyed with her counsellor as she didnt think that the scratching was self-harm.

I think that the counsellor is trying to move DD along to someone else which will suit DD.

There is an awful lot of pigeon-holing going on. DD is frequently described by CAMHS as being anxious which she (DD) doesnt agree with. The only expression of this anxiety is that DD fidgets constantly. We have got her a stress toy to give her something to fidget with. As DD said, she isnt anxious she just self-harms.

DD is off to to a psychiatrist today. One possible outcome of this is that DD may be prescribed with anti-depressants.

DD has done a lot of research on self-harm for herself to try and understand why she does it. Apparently a combination of counselling and medication is the most effective treatment.

It's good to hear from you Gnome. I hope it's working out a bit.

DD has her second therapy session on Thursday although I don't think she's done any of the "homework" set last week, although it's a relief she's happy to go.

I am just so exhausted by it all. My perceived failure as a parent else she wouldn't be in this state. The hard place I find myself because she won't let me tell DH about it. The total lack of support from CAMHS/GP, etc.

It just seems so awful that it ever came to this and was going on and I didn't know. It all makes me feel slightly sick and I think I could go over the edge if it wasn't for the fact that I can't because of what it could do to dd.

She's a bit calmer now she's had a week of half term and is rested. The night panic attacks have stopped since the GP prescribed beta blockers. Have felt quite temped to take one myself if I'm honest.

Am actually feeling very sad and quite struggly myself at the moment. DH will be home in a minute and I'll have to pretend all is mighty fine. Again.

Ripening, it is exhausting. And it's OK to feel exhausted by it from time to time. You have to acknowledge that and take the time you need to look after your own needs too and be kind to yourself. It goes to the heart of who we are as mothers that we could let our children come to this and not notice their pain. At the same time they are inevitably growing into their own people and not everything they do - even something as hard to bear as self-harm - reflects on us in the way we think it does.

It is very tough when you have to bear the hard bits of parenthood alone - it's the hardest job in the world, and sometimes the loneliest. I've had to bear a lot of our situation on my own too and at times it has made me really resent DH. DD won't talk to him, dislikes him, won't bring people home if he's in the house, explicitly blames him for a lot of her unhappiness, even though an objective viewer might see severe bullying at school and the loneliness that goes with it as a much bigger contributory factor. However, be that as it may, she has cut him out of her emotional life and he has also reacted in pain and withdrawn. Which is a bugger, and at times I truly want to head for the hills and stay there, but of course I don't, because as you so rightly say, you can't. And staying strong and resilient for someone else ultimately means that I can stay strong and resilient for myself too. So far!

So stay strong and look after yourself. Both for your sake and for your daughter's. You sound like a very supportive, reflective person, and as such you will be a strength to her. I'm glad you're both getting some r&r at half term. Hugs and .

Hi Ripeningapples, I do understand how you feel. How did we we come to this? Just remember that you didnt make this happen. I think that there is a lot of attention given to the mother's actions but that just seems to be a default approach. If it's not one thing it's your mother .

DD had her psychiatrist's appointment yesterday. She found it very frustrating. The psychiatrist was as vague and waffly as the counsellor. DH went along as well. Apparently there was lots of interest in me having had PND (not sure why as that was after DC1 was born and DD is DC3).

We had the referral letter from CAMHS counsellor to the psychiatrist yesterday. I will be interested to talk to DD about it when we have a little time. DD does feel that words have been put into her mouth by the counsellor so I will be interested to hear from DD if she agrees with what has been put there.

I dont know if you are feeling this. There does seem to be a lot of effort to pigeon hole our young people. There also feels to be a lot of pressure to say 'right, that's it you are cured!'

Another thing I am detecting with CAMHS is an awful lot of pressure to say that their therapies work. The referral letter we had to the psychiatrist did focus a lot on the couple of workshops DD has been to (which she had felt hadnt helped).

Self harm is hugely complex and IMO is a symptom of many other problems. Some therapies will work with some people because they deal with a particular cause. Same therapy on a different person or the same person but at a different time may not work. This doesnt mean that the therapy is inherently wrong or that the person is at fault just it is the wrong thing at the wrong time.

Anyway next step is that DD is moving on to a new counsellor and the psychiatrist will be getting a report from school to see what they have to say. Medication is still on the table but the psychiatrist wants more information.

Apologies if I am developing this theme on the wrong thread. I have just learned that my daughter's large comprehensive school is beginning to talk about excluding her because they don't know how to deal with her "emotional outbursts".

I have been trying to get her effective help for months to cope with self-harm and depression, much of it rooted in severe and persistent bullying at school. She hasn't previously wanted to consider moving because some of her teachers were a lifeline in a very dark and confusing period of her life, and she didn't want to be a quitter.

The bullying is nasty and largely unnoticed - under the radar, low grade, verbal, emotional and occasionally physical, widespread. She has become the kid it's OK to hate.

She is Year 10 now and her new deputy head is beginning to suggest a) that it's her who can't cope, and/or b) that she is making some of it up and it can't be that bad.

Can they possibly think of excluding her under such circumstances? What are her rights...? Does she have any?!

scout if she's so badly bullied and school is making her unhappy could you negotiate a managed move? Might that have positives? I know it's Y10 but could it be worth a try? She could be in a happier place.

Hi Scout, have you seen this: School discipline and exclusions there is also a link on that site to government policy on bullying. You and your DD have rights.

It is possible that a managed move may be a good idea but only on your DD's and your terms.

Hi Gnome - thanks for that. I have just also found a government leaflet called Safe to Learn which categorically says that pupils must not be excluded for being bullied, even if the school feels it is in the interests of the pupil's safety. (Although mind you, looking at it more closely, it's dated 2007 so perhaps it doesn't apply any more!)

I feel school are a little edgy this year because it's Year 10 and it is "for the greater good" to consider moving DD on because she's hard to handle than to try to get a handle on the culture of the school. Ironically she had actually being doing a lot better this year but the bad name she was given last year for emotional unpredictability seems to be what's hanging her... I think all I can do is keep as cool a head as I can and invite them in the spirit of collaboration to consider with me whether the extent of the isolation she's suffered at school may not be the most significant contributory factor to her current unhappiness and volatility, and if they could help her with that a little more they would find themselves managing her a lot less.

You've hit the nail on the head though when you say a move needs to be on our terms. I really don't want her to feel as if she's being managed out because she's somehow failed there simply by being the target of some pretty sustained spite.

I think the 2007 leaflet in conjunction with the website will be very useful in your armoury as it shows that anti-bullying policies are not at all new.

Dont dismiss your role. What you can do for your DD is be her advocate at the school.

Also, something which might help her to focus on is that this will end. At the end of next year (May 2017) school as she knows it can end. You know your DD, is this a thought which might help?