I'm terrified for dd (13) who is becoming a bully's sidekick

[Notmyidea]

Dd always used to be a bright, lovely girl. She is currently excluded from school (part of today and tomorrow, allowed back after half term) for helping to beat up a girl in her year with special needs. I am beyond ashamed. There is a ringleader, and I think there is a bit of "if I don't join in she'll turn on me" going on.
Naturally that is no excuse.

I have let her know how upset and angry we are, and added our own punishment to schools.

Anyone dealt with this? How to I help her remove herself from other bully's influence?

I would not tolerate even exclusionary language from my dc (they wouldn't) let alone physical violence

Where is the OP tolerating either of these?

I cant be believe you convinced the girls mum it was all a misunderstanding because you have known her years poor womans dd was wound up lashed out and you are trying to make it out your dd was a victim too suck it up and let yoyr dd take responsibilty for her part in this, your dd has known this girl since primary school she knows she has issues even if she isnt sure what autism is

Why is the girls toy being repeatedly hidden? Sounds like she's had enough.

I cant be believe you convinced the girls mum it was all a misunderstanding

Where did the OP say or imply she had convinced the mother of anything?

And before anyone accuses me of anything, the bullying is completely reprehensible.

Something is going on in the classroom to prompt this reaction, it's bullying with the intention of getting a reaction. It worked.

Is she genuinely sorry, though, or just sorry for herself? She needs to get to the point where she can put herself in the other person's shoes.

I would check with the local police station whether they offer a 'tour' of the building, to show her what happens when a person is arrested. The fingerprint, photograph and cell area can have a very strong impact on a developing mind.

I would also contact local charities to see what volunteer work she might be able to do, mixing with children and adults with young adults with SN. If she cannot work with them, she could do something 'behind the scenes' to help the charity.

The other really important thing to sort out is your dds low self esteem. That needs to be addressed or she will suffer all her life with poor decisions.

Well, if the second version of events is correct then the only acceptable course of action would have been for your daughter to go into the corridor and to have call for help, instead she joined the "bundle" caused in the first instance by the provocative act of one of the group of alpha bullies taking something that didn't belong to them and hiding it because they knew it would cause upset. So the victim's wrong was provoked by a wrong of bigger magnitude by girls who do not have a disability.

OP face up to the fact that your dd was bang out of order; make sure she knows it; stop making excuses and if necessary go and get her some counselling even if you have to pay for it yourself. And finally, a mobile phone got cracked - well, actually, so what. A Yr 8 child should only have a cheap and basic phone at school anyway so there's no big deal in that. Catch on a plastic flute case - find it hard to believe that it broke on being tipped out of a bag, those cases are quite robust and it takes quite a lot to damage them. My dd's a flautist - have known cases to come tumbling down the stairs accidentally - never seen a flimsy plastic catch on a flute case that would break from being tipped out of a bag.

Not sure why you are "terrified" for your daughter. You need to take control now, face up to facts and take responsibility for your dd's behaviour and values and do something to improve both. The mother of the little shit eventually expelled from dd's old school used to make excuses for her too - that's why she was a little shit.

I am a parent to two children with ASD, both of whom have suffered horribly at the hands of bullies.

I am NOT part of the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade.

Permanent exclusion from school is a very serious last resort and it doesn't actually help, it just moves the problem elsewhere. It can ruin the education of students who have just gone astray or made a poor judgement. There will be times where it is necessary, but in all but the most serious of assaults, it should not be considered as the first step. And victim's parents don't get to make that demand. (well they can make it, but the school will ignore it)

Punishment is important. Fixed term 1-2 days exclusion is appropriate. But what happens after that is far more important. They need to be taught how to not bully and how to not stand by when someone is being bullied.

People bully because they want to belong and be accepted. They will do anything they can, to separate themselves in their heads, from their victims because the thought of being in that position is scary, and it's always better when it is someone else. It's just like on this thread where some people have jumped on (and bullied) the OP and blamed her for her DD's behaviour. They know that their DC would never do something so awful, because they are better parents. If they can blame the OP, it reassures them that the same thing could never happen to them, and if it did, they would come down on it so hard, it would never happen again. Oh so simple and oh so deluded.

You can't make someone be empathic, they need to learn proper understanding. They need to understand what it is like to be isolated and treated differently. School can use Drama or PSHE to teach that. They need to teach kids how to stand up and say stop, when they see a child being bullied, even if they are saying it to their friends. It's hard, because most people don't.

I would spend some time with your DD, talking to her and asking her, what she thinks it must be like for this other girl. Ask her how she might feel in that position (A proper calm discussion, not a shouted 'how do you think she feels!'). Ask her what challenges this girl must have, and what she might need from people around her. Ask her what she might be able to do if she found herself in a similar position again.
I hope you make some progress with her.

This would horrify me. Firstly, you need to keep your dd with you. Your focus this holiday is to work through with your dd on why this happened and to ensure she gets the gravity of the situation. She is lucky it wasn't reported to the police and I would be tempted to call them myself. I would get her signed up to volunteer to work with children with sen and ensure her holiday is controlled so she is not allowed to get away with this and you show her as her parent you are going to take responsibility for this not her grandparents.

If I felt this wouldn't be sufficient Id look to change schools. At the moment your dd doesn't deserve to be in the company of the victim nor should the victim have to be in her company.

If my child was beaten at school I would call the police and I think it's a shame for you dd that they are not involved. She needs a proper scare now. She is a bully, shipping her off to grandparents sounds to me like absolving your self of responsibility for her actions.

You have just a few short years left to have a real impact on the person your dd becomes. I find lots of people in life annoying, I don't beat them, never have done and don't know anyone who behaves like this.

I feel so sorry for this poor girl who is blaming herself for being assaulted. She is in no way responsible for what your daughter did, and as hard as it may be you need to look at the person your child is now not who she used to be.

What first impression would I have of her if I met her today?

Ask her school if they do any restorative work in these sorts of situations. I don't know much about this approach but it's meant to be effective. Don't belittle what she did; she wasn't a bully's side kick at all.

MOstWicked. I disagree with every part of your argument. Yes it moves the problem elsewhere - it moves it away from the people who suffer at the hands of a bully. It should move them to an environment such as a PRU or a specialist unit where the bullies and the socially degenerate will receive specialist help. Most importantly it removes them from a position where they are able to destroy the enjoyment and achievement of others. It means teachers can teach and children can learn and grow in environments where there is as little fear as possible.

If there a permanent sanctions in schools there will be fewer episodes of violence because the potential assaulter will be aware of the consequences.

I don't think the OP has been bullied. I think a few hard facts have been set straight. That might be nice but life isn't a dress rehearsal and if children aren't behaving as young teenagers and aren't being put right then they will find the future very difficult. If a punch gets thrown at work, do you think the person responsible will have a job or be summarily dismissed. Do you think the person will get a good reference? Do you think that person will be able to claim benefits straight away once unemployed?

The current culture of excuses does not prepare children to survive in the real world.

One final point OP. How do you ground a 13 year old? 13 year old's have to ask your permission to go out, inform you where they are going and who with, no? Is your dd at home in the evenings after school, having her tea and doing her homework, or is she out and about until it gets dark? Does she hang about with these girls doing stuff that is unstructured and unfocussed?

I don't think anyone thinks their child would never bully because they're better parents at all. They know they would deal with it differently if their children DID bully.

I agree entirely there has been no bullying on this thread, the OP sounded clueless as to the reality of her dd's bullying and that's dangerous, she needed her really crap attitude as a parent with a bullying daughter pointed out and it was done strenuously because people are shocked.

This video made by parentchannel.tv working with BeatBullying has some good advice and guidance for parents who have just found out their child is involved in bullying.

My gut reaction is to come down on your DD like a tonne of bricks as I find bullying so reprehensible because of the long term damage it causes. But I realise that is largely down to my personal experiences and may not be the most useful approach in reality.

Yes I see that crystal skulls. However, I don't think grounding ought to be that effective because with a 13 year old I don't think there should be much to ground because they shouldn't have that much autonomy over where they go independently and when. It's more prevention from doing things they like.

Also, OP, bear in mind that she has been excluded because of this incident but there will have been a lot of low level bullying that may have been pretty constant for that poor girl.

Giving 'looks', whispering, giggling, 'bumping' into her, knocking her belongings off the desk, name calling, ignoring, etc. That is a very hard way to live and extremely depressing to have to face every single day.

Your dd will have been part of this. She probably is worried that if she stands up for this girl, she will then become a target. Along with punishing her and educating her you also need to listen to her and help her to make the right decisions.

There are loads of charities that can help you, just search online and read up as much as you can. I think it would be a good idea to get your dd to ring Childline and talk to them about it too. They will be non-judgemental and will help to guide her and keep her safe.

I agree nicki - this is all about crap parenting, minimising, sending dd off so as not to have to deal with disciplining. It's not really about the dd who is a product of her mother.

I hate the idea that you spoke to the poor mother of the victim, doing all the minimising that you have done on here. The pressure for her daughter to conform, be accepted by her peers and be safe from these bullies has probably made her collude in the minimisation. I don't for a minute think that in her heart of hearts she thinks any of it is ok.

I can imagine her at the end of the phone wearily agreeing with the op in the hope that her dd might become more low-profile and not targeted any further by the bullies.

It's particularly helpful to read first hand accounts from people who have suffered bullying. It will have you in tears. One of the most common themes is that the victim felt that no-one listened to them until, eventually, someone did and things changed.

This could be where your dd is now. You do need to listen to her because she could become a victim herself. I wouldn't send her to her gps because I think you need to rebuild your relationship with her now that she is no longer a 'bright, lovely girl' to you. Make sure you tell her that, whilst you are disappointed with her choices, you do love her and always will and that you want to help her through this difficult time.

I agree with that the mum is probably weary her dd is asd she just wants her dd to be able to gp to school and slip under the radar it is a shame the mum wont think its ok deep down

What on earth do you mean "how do you ground a 13 year old?"

I have successfully grounded a 7 year old in the past- it's not age specific!

The other child isnt your concern, its your daughter you need to sort out. Im shocked by some of the languahe directed at your child on this thread, she is not a disgusting excuse for a human being she is a child who needs to be taught right from wrong. 13 year olds are naturally selfish.

Op I dont think you're a shit parent and people being so nasty are just gleefully sticking the boot in. Not really any different from this situation except MNers are meant to be adults and should know better than to be calling names.

Just focus on your own daughter, sending her to her GP isnt avoiding your responsibilities if she will have a worse time there. It'll keep her away from her friends as well which is a good thing.

People are saying that she is showing shit parenting - not that she is a shit parent. She may be a lovely parent in many different areas. She is showing terrible judgement on this thread. Hence people's frustration.

Good grief - there are some nasty judgemental folk on here - must be nice to be such perfect people with clearly perfect children too.

Notmyidea- Anyone that suggests that children are not influenced by those around them or not subject to peer pressure is a bloody idiot so please ignore them. You are doing the right things by getting your dd to apologise so well done. It is a good idea to get her and the other child together away from school first and hopefully a face to face will help both dd and other child resolve the anger and hurt they must BOTH be feeling. HOWEVER in the real world (where some posters here clearly don't live) when she goes back to school, she may find it hard if the other girls have decided to hold a grudge. Ask the school if they can any form of restorative justice work with children because it seems to me that the whole group of girls need to be asked to discuss what they did and reflect on why it is unacceptable. The whole group needs some support with understanding asd (hiding possessions is a fairly standard wind up prank for children however, they need to understand the implications of hiding the special teddy for this asd girl) tolerance (to try and understand that the world isn't fair, we are not all equal and that the response of the victim smashing their stuff, whilst wrong, is part of her condition and therefore not subject to the same rules as for them) and then some conflict resolution skills. Part of this could also involve the other girl if she was willing.
As for the longer term, it is very difficult to ask or expect a 13 to ostracise herself from her peers ...... so you need to work with to show her why she needs to do this and how to cope with the backlash that will inevitably happen. She needs you to be drip feeding her the idea around firstly being resolute enough to follow her own moral compass and step away from situations she knows are wrong and then hopefully to a more active role of feeling that she can tell others not to do it to. Lots and lots of discussion needed - she needs open and honest dialogue with you (hard I know with other children, work, etc) but try to set aside 30 mins a couple of time a week of 1-2-1 time with her for just this.
Putative discipline, grounding, yanking her out of school etc will achieve fake apology and no learning at best - resentment and push her further towards the undesirable girl at worst.
Good luck