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Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Teenagers

In despair - can't go on

189 replies

minifingers · 14/12/2013 14:24

:-(

Many posts on this board about dd.

She went to stay with my mum and sister for 6 weeks at the start of the academic year after some violent outbursts which ended in us getting the police involved.

Things had been a bit better since she got back, but the last few weeks she has started to become more and more difficult with me again, and started getting into trouble again at school.

The long and short of it is that she is verbally abusive to me pretty much every day at the moment and it's destroying me emotionally to the point where I'm starting to feel ill and unable to function as a parent to my other 2 younger dc's.

This morning she asked me to buy her a McDonalds for breakfast. I said no - there was bacon and eggs, bread, yogurt, porridge, flour for pancakes. I told her to make her own breakfast. This precipitated an hour of verbal abuse - I am tight fisted, poor, pathetic, a loser, friendless, lazy, my work is worthless, nobody likes me, I'm useless to everyone.

I try to detach and ignore, but she will follow me around insulting me.

She bullies me and shouts me down, refuses to comply with any requests, constantly reminds me that she can do what she likes when she like, and there is NOTHING dh and I can do about it. She often tells me to 'shut up', makes obscene comments (in the car on Wednesday she spent 10 minutes telling me how she had sucked 5 men's cocks and fucked 15 boys one after another - all rubbish but just said to disgust and distress me. I am pretty sure she is not having sex with 1 boy, let alone dozens), shoves past me in the hallway of the house.

She shouts at me and abuses me if her uniform isn't ready in the morning (if I haven't remembered to hang it out to dry after it has been through the washer), tells me my cooking is disgusting and that the house is disgusting because I'm lazy and useless. She berates me for not having a full-time job or much money, laughs at me, tries to play DH off against me. Says he could do much better than me and that I should just leave.

The abuse is pretty frequent and almost always starts in response to me saying 'no' to her - no you can't have a sleepover on a school night, no you can't have money for the kebab shop, or if I ask her to do something she doesn't feel like doing eg get up in the morning, do some homework, whatever.

She is aggressive, nasty and disrespectful to some of her teachers at school as well, and is currently facing a possible permanent exclusion for disrespectful and disruptive behaviour.

She has a rationale for it all: apparently I am abusive to her because I let her sleep on a new mattress on the floor for several months (was trying to sort all the children's beds out - new bunk beds for the little ones, and she didn't like her old bed frame as it is old fashioned, so I dismantled it ready for storage). She also until recently had no door on her bedroom - it had come of its hinges after she tried to slam it in DH's face a few months ago and he pushed it. Her room is at the end of a long hallway with no other rooms going off it so she still had some privacy. Plus her window is cracked after his cousin kicked a ball into it - not so that there are holes in it, but the glass is crazed in one of the 4 squares. Also took her curtains down to wash and haven't put them back up (no privacy issues, her room overlooks a private garden) and sometimes condensation goes a bit mouldy on her window frame. None of these things are great but the rest of the upstairs of the house is worse. It's a biggish Edwardian terrace and quite scruffy - there is so much to do that we feel overwhelmed by it. Never the less - her room is decent by the standards of the other bedrooms. We put new laminate flooring in about 2 years ago, all the (sadly single glazed) windows were refurbished 3 years ago

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minifingers · 22/12/2013 19:36

Tethers, I think her mentor at her school was in the process of sorting out a referral to an E d Psych, but she's now left the school and I don't know what happens next. I will get back on the case next year.

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Maryz · 22/12/2013 19:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lookatmycameltoe · 22/12/2013 20:04

minifingers I have a 16 year old DS identical to your DD. No one gets it. No one. Confiscating possessions, grounding, normal punishments, DON'T WORK on children like this.

He is completely entitled and is also rude and nasty to me on a daily basis.

I feel so sad because he is such a horrible person. I feel his soul is dark. He doesn't care about anyone else. I've joked for years that if I collapsed in front of him his first reaction would be to empty my purse and do a runner.

I have two other 'normal' children who I'm so grateful for because they stop me blaming my parenting.

He has broken everything in his room including his bed. Then tells everyone he had nothing nice and is expected to sleep on a mattress on the floor.

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minifingers · 22/12/2013 20:22

Sorry look :-(

I also have two other children who at the moment are pretty amenable, but they're younger than dd. I'm frightened about what sort of adolescence they are going to have. If they are as bad or worse than dd I will fear for my physical as well as mental health.

The lack of control and the feeling of being emotionally unsafe, of having someone in you home (which should be a place of safety and a refuge from the world) who treats you with contempt.... It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't gone through it just how grim it is and how physically and emotionally ill it can make you. I can honestly say that if an adult member of my family had treated me in the way that dd has treated me I would go non-contact overnight and feel a huge sense of relief.

Maryz, my youngest has ASD and is currently only 8. I am thinking so hard at the moment about how to avoid pitfalls later.

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46direct · 22/12/2013 21:00

Look, I have got a nightmare son of 16 the same. On my phone so a pain to type. Need to start a thread and pick your brains all of you!

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Palika · 22/12/2013 21:14

Mini
don't you have a backdoor with an adjacent room which you can separate from the rest of the house? If my DS was as horrible as your DD I think I would close off the house, so that he would only be allowed to enter the main house if he behaves himself.

Sounds too brutal? Honestly, that is what I would do - I do it already in a way. When DS is horrible he has to go to his room for the rest of the day. He absolutely hates it - and it works like a treat.

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minifingers · 22/12/2013 21:25

Can't restrict her to her room - she just refuses to move if she doesn't want to. But I can remove myself from the situation! Grin

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motherinferior · 22/12/2013 21:46

What has happened with school, mini?

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LauraShigihara · 22/12/2013 22:13

I have a son in his twenties who is very much like this. I came within a whisker of moving out with my youngest and just leaving him with his father when he was in his teens, and even looked at flats. It was only my husband's horror at the idea that stopped me but the thought of not dealing with the abuse made it so tempting.

His lack of control caught up with him last year and he is now half way through a two year prison sentence.

I have to agree with the idea of all this being about control - we have offered to physically pick him up on his release date next month, and I am being bombarded with calls from him insisting we do things his way in the manner of his choosing, just as he did as a teenager.

We only coped (and things have been hellish with him since he was about fifteen) by not confronting him unless absolutely necessary, and letting all sorts of things go.

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Confuseddd · 22/12/2013 22:43

I hope you won't take this the wrong way Mini, but I have a view on this.

Is it a 'big stinking pile of lamb bones' or is it just a dirty plate? Why dramatise?

I am not denying she sounds a nightmare to live with, but she is not responsible for your outlook on things. If you are generally pessimistic about things then it impacts on your quality of life (and of those around you too). Have a look at Learned Optimism by Martin Seligman. Very good book.

I think you are existing in victimhood, and that is very threatening to an adolescent. She desperately needs you to be a positive role model for her. So do what you have to do to find your strength.

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minifingers · 23/12/2013 06:06

Confusedd, it was INDEED just a dirty plate. And I wanted her to take it out, because that's the rule that the rest of the family adhere to - take your plates through to the kitchen after you've eaten.

What would you have done?

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minifingers · 23/12/2013 06:29

Re: feeling victimised, I think you'll find a few of us here on this board who feel this way. Many of us have been assaulted, stolen from, sworn at, name called, brow beaten, threatened, sneered at. By children who are physically bigger and stronger than us. If this is done to you by another adult you'd be given the number of Women's Aid, a lot of sympathy, and advised to go non-contact with the person perpetuating the abuse. But when it's your teenage child there will be some people out there who will blame you for the child's behaviour and your feeling diminished by it. TBH I'm amazed there are not more suicides among women (and it is usually women) on the receiving end of this type of abuse. There's certainly a lot of ill health connected with it - but it's hidden. People are frightened to talk about it in public because of the fear of being blamed for their child's behaviour, and not wanting to stigmatise their child.

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Moxiegirl · 23/12/2013 08:39

When dd's sw told me I had to have her home (she had been staying at her dad's but her dad couldn't keep her safe - no one could!) I told her I would rather throw myself out of the very tall building we were in than have her home and I meant it.
She is now in a residential unit with one to one 24 hr care as her risk levels are so high, she is home tomorrow for 2 nights and my stress levels are already rising. Obviously I keep this for her but really - it is so much harder than 'not being a victim' !

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Moxiegirl · 23/12/2013 08:40

*from not for.

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UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 23/12/2013 08:40

Mini, I might have asked this question before, but is boarding school a possibility?

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lookatmycameltoe · 23/12/2013 08:43

minifingers I totally agree. I cringe at these responses from well-meaning posters who really think repairing a window, giving a hug or being positive will help these children.

My own mother alternates weekly with calling me weak and spoiling him to calling me cold and too strict. She took him on holiday when he was 13 and came back terrified. He was combative the whole time, refused to wash, change his clothes, be polite, even drink water (it was a hot country) - when pushed he would square up to her. He is not afraid of anyone. I have to remind her of this when she judges me. Which is often.

I have developed stress related conditions - fibromyalgia, migraines, TMJ, weight-gain, insomnia, depression.

There is NO-ONE to help. NO-ONE.

The other thing is it's tearing my marriage apart. Living with that kind of tension and misery in the house is so corrosive.

It's also tiring 'pretending'. Lots of extended family have boys the same age. I would be mortified if they knew the truth. Concealing a big secret is exhausting. They are all visiting Boxing day. I will clean his room and play happy families on the day Sad

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WynkenBlynkenandNod · 23/12/2013 08:55

I really feel for you all going through this. My Brother was a nightmare as a teen but not to this extent. I am a few years older and noticed he used to play Mum and Dad off against each other and was an expert manipulator, always got what he wanted.

Notice Mini that your DD is nicer to your DH as she knows what side her bread is buttered on and gets more money and treats from him. Was wondering how that works and what the dynamic is there?

Please don't let DD's comments about not working more. You have your hands very full and nothing at all to feel guilty about. It's shocking that there isn't more support for parents in your position.

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KatieScarlett2833 · 23/12/2013 09:52

I put my 14 year old DD into care, I could have written your OP.
I sat on the steps of the SS office, DH and DD in tow and made them help us.
By the time she was 16 she was a different young woman. She was only in care for a long weekend and it scared the crap out of her. Now she is as lovely a person as she was before she was 13.
I called the police every time she absconded or threatened or committed an offence. I practically lived in her school. I told her I loved her every day.
She came through. It was however the worst, most dreadful time in all our lives. My heart goes out to you. Sometimes it is not the parents fault, not even a tiny bit and I'd like to thank SS for making us accept this and for all the brilliant support we got.

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MaryzBoychildCheeszuzCrizpz · 23/12/2013 11:05

I think there comes a time with a child like this that you have to accept that you cannot change them, that you have no control over them.

But you can change yourself. You can change how you react. You can live your life without letting them affect you.

It really is possible. Obviously it's hard until you get abit of practice, because you have to go against every instinct you have.

But it's a bit like dealing with an alcoholic - I have a friend who spent years searching for hidden bottles, driving around to find her husband, signing him into rehab, covering up for him in his job (until he lost it), desperately, desperately trying to pretend to others that her life was normal. She thought she could fix him.

One day she realised she couldn't and gave up. They are all a lot happier now - he still driinks (a lot) but they don't live together. She and the kids are happy, he pulls himself together occasionally to see them.

Counselling helped me to see that I couldn't change ds. Not one bit. And all my trying, my anger, my desperation, my grief wouldn't change him.

I stopped pretending things were ok. I told my family and friends the truth of what was going on. I stopped covering for him, I called the police, I told my gp (and got anti-depressants), I gave up on getting him to treatment/counselling and just got myself there - which made it much more productive. I worked on being happier in myself - and thus made dd and ds2 happier.

And you know, it took a while, but gradually he stopped being quite so awful. It's hard to fight when someone won't fight back. It's hard to argue when the other person walks away.

I agree about the safe space, the lock on the bedroom door, the absolute line drawn at threatening or violent behaviour (backed up by calling police).

But the best way to help your family as a whole is to be happy yourself. It is possible - I'm proof of it (and I never thought I would be).

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Confuseddd · 23/12/2013 13:43

I have been thinking about your predicament Mini and hope you are doing okay. I work with children who are extremely rebellious and who can be abusive and violent, so I'm not under any illusions here.

I do think Maryz view is very sensible. Your own power to control her is diminished and that you need to look after yourself. She does desperately need you, as you have intimated, but it's more about what you represent for her that's important than the physical stuff like cooking and laundry.

I'm not actually advocating 'thinking positive' but developing a more optimistic approach, which is proven to help people through adversity. An example from cameltoe - you say that 'NO ONE helps - NO ONE', when the truth is, your mum has tried in her way to help, and some mumsnetters want to support you too. If you can allow a little doubt to enter your belief that 'no one helps' or 'my child is impossible' and think more reasonably, you will feel calmer and stronger.

If you think this is not a powerful course of action, read the Seligman book Learned Optimism for scientific proof.

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Palika · 23/12/2013 14:32

Mini
why does your DD receive money and treats from your DH - ever????

Why is he not supporting you more, given that he is able to get on better with her.

I think your real problem is your relationship with your DH, who you seem to idealise and your DD is just a 'symptom' of this problem.

If you and your DH really would pull together and he would stop trying to stay on her good side you might just be in with some sort of chance.

I also agree with Confused: your 'confident' assertion that there is 'nothing at all ever ever' you can do sounds self-defeatist to the extreme.

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handcream · 23/12/2013 14:43

I was reading the paper at the weekend at there was an article about the Kids Company in London. You sound desperate and I have to agree with some - a bit of a victim in all of this. They work with troublesome teeanagers. I would be tempted to call them.

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UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 23/12/2013 15:14

I thought Kid's Company worked with abused or neglected children, or those suffering from severe deprivation - Mini's daughter does not fit that category. But there may be other charities who can.

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lookatmycameltoe · 23/12/2013 15:29

confuseddd When I said no-one, I mean professionally. Parents with 'normal' children assume that should a problem occur that there will be a normal process in the same way if you have abdominal you go to the GP who refers you to the hospital etc.

I'm not hopeless or negative. I'm trying to express to the 'just give her a hug' brigade (who are in effect blaming the parents) how lonely and desperate it is out there.

I have very little time for the theory of positive thinking/laws of attraction/'the secret' malarkey. In my professional life I have to pick up the pieces of people who think they are suffering, even dying because their mind-set isn't right. Nowadays I have to hear a patient ask me, at least once a week, if their chemotherapy isn't working because they aren't positive enough.

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minifingers · 23/12/2013 15:39

Palika - you are right. DH could do more than defend me and tell her that her behaviour is unacceptable.

He could stop taking her out on her own. Make her hate and resent him as much as she hates me. Maybe if he got really firm with her she would have run away. She has often threatened to.

I'm sure that would help.Hmm

As for the negativity - yes, I have become negative. It's taken three years, during which time I have experienced the police being called to the house to deal with her threatening and hitting me, a search with dogs for her when she ran off into the night, her kicking holes in doors and walls, dozens of complaining texts, emails and calls from school, repeated meetings with teachers, the threat of large fines in response to her failure to attend school, the current threat of permanent exclusion from school (still hanging over us), watching my younger children cry in fear of her, having to listen to her call her 8 year old brother 'retarded' in front of him and for him to hear her blame me for his autism (because I had him at the age of 38). Yes - this has ground me down and made me feel negative and guilty.

Would you like to add to the guilt by pointing the finger at me and at my marriage as being the main source of the problems we are having with dd?

Do you have a teenager yourself or is your interest strictly academic.

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