My dd may end up in a pupil referral unit - would you employ her when she leaves?

[Minifingers]

Have posted about our current crisis on Chat and Secondary Education. Things have moved on since yesterday.

My dd in year 10, who left primary with level fives in all her SATS, and a stack of reports describing her as 'a joy to teach' and 'a lovely person to have in class', is now facing permanent exclusion and a move to a pupil referral unit in January if she doesn't stop arguing with teachers and walking out of lessons. The school is being great - they are doing all they can to address her behaviour, and we are supporting them every inch of the way. She has 12 weeks to turn her behaviour around, according to the school, and they are monitoring her every step of the way.

The problem is that dd seems to live on a planet - planet teenager - where she is involved in her own odd little drama that none of us can understand, and there are no consequences for failing exams or leaving school with a terrible report from your teachers. I've got a horrible feeling she quite likes the idea of going to a pupil referral unit, where she'll be mixing with a peer group which will consist primarily of disruptive boys from very disadvantaged backgrounds, children in care, and children with special needs who can't cope in mainstream. She comes from an educated middle class family, has no learning difficulties and according to CAMHS, who we were referred to last year, no diagnosis of any mental or developmental disorder. She is just a very, very difficult teenager who is giving everyone the run about, despite loads of support from home.

The only things she has ever said she wants to do is work with children, in childcare, or get into social work. I was thinking this morning about how I'd feel about employing someone to look after my children straight from school (because at the rate she's going university will be out of the question) who had attended a pupil referral unit. Also, if I was a nursery manager how I'd feel about a job applicant with this on their record.

I'm wondering what the general view is - it'd help me know whether saying 'this move might make it impossible for you to have a good career in the fields in which you're interested in' would be a reasonable thing to present to her to persuade her to rethink her choices over the next few weeks.

[OliviaMMumsnet]

Good evening all
A quick reminder of our talk guidelines
OP, do let us know if youd like us to move this thread for you - perhaps to our teenage section or education.
Best of luck with it all

[FrussoHathor]

She's been staying with my mum and sister, who live together since the first week of term, following a violent episode at home involving the police.

And she won't fit in at a pupil referral unit?

a pupil referral unit, where she'll be mixing with a peer group which will consist primarily of disruptive boys from very disadvantaged backgrounds, children in care, and children with special needs who can't cope in mainstream ?

Oh and children with special needs who can't cope in mainstream usually tend to go to special schools. Children who continuously behave like your dd go to behavioural units, Irrespective of background.

[neunundneunzigluftballons]

Mini fingers I think there might be something wrong that you do not know about. I definitely think she needs a very experienced teen counsellor. Is her Dad in the picture what does he think? Does he have any success?

[Sinful1]

If she handles problems by walking out, that makes her pretty much unemployable, especially around children she couldn't just walk out on them

[stargirl1701]

Is there a particular teacher from her primary school who she respects/looks up to? I worked with a former pupil in a similar situation. It involved her being with me on 'work experience' for 1 day a week - which she enjoyed - but that was dependent on her behaviour in her secondary school the other 4 days.

[neunundneunzigluftballons]

Sorry I missed some posts you have tried counsellor but I still think their could be issues. I had plenty and went off the rails completely lucky for my parents I was in uni so they were completely out of the loop but the issues were there.

[Jellybeanz1]

FE sounds good though I think they have to be less tolerant of poor behaviour. What about Steiner schools aren't they less formal and more creative approach which might help, does any one know?

[Delayingtactic]

Wow. Come on guys. I would be pretty defensive by this stage. Sure it's AIBU but surely that doesn't mean you have to be quite so judgemental.

If my DS turned into a person I didn't recognise I can only imagine how distraught and helpless I'd feel. I think we do get scared by stories such as yours OP because everyone would like to believe it would happen to their child.

OP I have no real advice except look after yourself and your DSs. At this stage what will be will be and you can only do so much.

[edam]

Mini, I know everyone is searching for a reason for your dd's behaviour. There was no dramatic reason for my sister's protracted and appalling rebellious 'phase'. Just our parents' divorce, which happens to a lot of people. My Dad was pretty shit, tbh, made it clear we were way down his list of priorities, and my sister at the very bottom, so maybe that was it. Whatever, I hope it's reassuring to hear that she came through it and turned into a pretty impressive decent adult who has made a hell of a difference to a lot of people who needed her help.

[FrussoHathor]

Have you taken your dd to look around the PRU? That might shock her into seeing what a good thing she has at her current school?

[cory]

Sinful, it will make her unemployable if she still behaves in that way when she is old enough to need employment. But there is still time. Thankfully, many troubled teens do pull themselves together and make something of their lives.

[PeriodFeatures]

Hi Minifingers

Your daughter is me at year 10. I was excluded then in and out of behaviour management classes. (There were no PRUs then!) My DH didn't even go to school.

Let her go to the PRU. It doesn't really matter. It might give her some valuable life experience and develop her interests in working in Social Care. It also might shock her into pulling herself together. The 1-2-1 support that she will get may help her focus and reflect on what she want to do. Just encourage her to get the Maths and English qualifications as they are hard to do later. (IMO)

I have a 1st Class Honours Degree and an MA from a Russell Group University now. DH also has academic awards.

We have 4 GCSEs between us.

I have scared the crap out of my family with some of my antics but have rarely been out of work and have a fantastic career working in Social Care (have specialised in working with challenging teenagers, am respected for what i do and am very employable!)

My guess is that, not knowing anymore about her, is that she is bright, bored and hormonal.

I was joint working with a colleague recently who is a knowledgeable and professional family support worker of only 22 years old.

She went to college and settled down after a stint at PRU.

Talk to your daughter though. Just keep a dialogue open about who she is and what she wants, support her with her goals and see the strengths she has. Shout and lay the law down if you need to. Some kids just don't cope with school. I didn't. I'm o.k now.

Good Luck.

P.S get her to work for her money, one way or another. Work ethic is vital!!

[KatieScarlett2833]

Mini, you could have been describing my DD age 13-15. Right down to the counselling. We tried everything, involved every agency, called the Police every single time, even made SS take her into care for a very long weekend.
Nothing worked.
We are a naice family, happy, close, no money worries, etc etc
However, DD grew up.
She is now 18. A student, training to be a Social Worker.
She looks back on those years with horror these days, can't believe what she was doing, really disgusted.
Sometimes it does happen to nice normal families. It just does.

[insanityscratching]

Mini you mention her brother has ASD and knowing there is thought to be some genetic link, has she been assessed herself by a specialist diagnostic centre? ASD is harder to spot in intelligent girls who employ lots of coping strategies in primary but then seem to fall to pieces in secondary. Some refuse and become reclusive but others become disruptive and aggressive and controlling. I can suggest places where you could ask for a referral to if you wanted.

[nilbyname]

Op I am disgusted at the pasting one or two of the pposters have given you on this thread.

You deserve a massive medal and hug, your situation sounds horrific.

FWIW, I think you should follow lauriefarie cakes advice to the letter and really detach yourself. Looking for answers where there aren't any is clearly too much.


I work with young people and I am constantly reminded of the parallels between their thought process and that of a toddlers-an inability to see consequences, a selfishness. Of course this is some not all, and is often minor things. But still.

God luck.

[PeriodFeatures]

I haven't read the whole thread so might be missing something.....

[Minifingers]

Katie

And to all of you here with positive stories and helpful suggestions, which I will follow up.

Have asked for this thread to be moved to the teenage board.

Hoping for some input there from the magnificent Maryz and from Flow4, who's always on the mark with her advice.

[PeriodFeatures]

And, to add, if she was keen, able to get up and be at work on time and demonstrated that she was safe and trainable i would employ her like a shot.

Kids who have had ups and downs can make insightful, sensitive childcare workers, particularly with children who are also facing challenges themselves.

[OliviaMMumsnet]

We have moved this to our teenagers section

[morry1000]

Minifingers. I have been reading this thread on both the Secondary section and here.

I know exactly what your are going though at the moment as i have stated on other posts that my DD was almost identical to your DD in her
behaviour and was wasting her abilty.

My DD who has a statement due to the fact of a very IQ of 138 and ADHD symptons was always arguing swearing and running out of the
classroom for no reason other than she was bored. she never did one
bit of homework for 5 years or any relevant work. She would in the middle of a maths lesson start talking about the Arab spring. when she was told to get on with her work would swear and walk out.

DD was told that they was no way she was going to be allowed back for
the 6th form, mind you she was only going to get Es anyway due to the fact of doing nothing.

About 6 weeks before the G.C.S.E Exams DD suddenly realised the mess she was in. She went in tears to her english teacher saying she was desperate. The english teacher said to DD if you can get Ds in English and Maths and other subjects i will ask for you to repeat yr 11
next year. DD managed Cs in English and History and D in maths/Science

The school have allowed DD back in to yr 11 to re do her Gcse "s and her target grades are 7 As.

The point to this is has your DD had an IQ test .

[PeriodFeatures]

....the best Social Workers are anti authoritarian, bold, brave individuals who can challenge, empathise, and have a commitment to Social Justice...

Encourage her to go for it...

[BellaVita]

for you OP.

I have two teenage sons, one who has just started college and was never ever in trouble at school and DS2 (yr9) who exasperates us and his teachers every bloody day. This has been going on since primary. I know how exhausting it can be, I feel for you I really do.

I think Laurie's advice is great and I will be taking it on board myself x

[Mumsyblouse]

I have also seen this pattern- lovely family, really caring and very supportive, with some children who seem to do just fine and then one who for whatever reason rails against the world and seems to be on self-destruct. I hope you are able to hear some of the advice on here, I would be in such a state about all this, I don't know how you cope (I just guess you do). I'm sorry so many people were pointing fingers- but I know only too well that sometimes these things seem to blow up from nowhere and you find yourself in the middle of a storm you never saw coming. Perhaps being in a pupil referral unit will have some type of effect- from getting help to horrifying her, I think she's pretty set on being excluded so just let her get on with it.

[SPBisResisting]

Cupocoffee I think the op actually reacted quite moderately tbh.

Op does she actually want to work with children or was it just a way to answer the question for her. Child care and social work are very different. I'm not convinced she has the ambitions that so many people on the thread are suggesting you use to get through to her.

Would she get a job? A little dose of the real world where you only get paid if you perform.