MaryZ's support thread for parents of troubled teenagers

[MaryZcary]

I am starting this thread in the hope that it will become a safe space for those of us strugging with very challenging teenage behaviour.

I'm hoping that it will be a support thread, rather than descend as so many threads do into a "criticism of the parents". Those of us in this situation know that it is pretty much impossible to just "tell them to stop" or to "ground them", and taking away phones, money and gadgets leads to lying stealing and running away .

Sadly it seems cannabis is at the bottom of an awful lot of these children's problems, and I'm hoping we can talk about that here without having to defend ourselves against the "cannabis does no harm" brigade. So if anyone tries to turn it into an argument about whether cannabis is addictive or harmful, could you please just ignore them and hope they go away - or start another thread which I can hide where they can argue away happily.

Anyway, sign in if you are interested. I'll be back later.

She has just come home said sorry and burst into tears

I asked for me . GP said see what the school can provide

Good idea re the lists mary and agree to do it now while I'm still angry.

Will try a different GP at our practise .We have a couple of new ones who I won't be seeing again as they seem pretty clueless. I went to one about DD ages ago and was told that it's a social problem not a medical one .

Yes, you really, really do need someone to talk about it all.

I think the GP thought you meant counselling for DD - I don't think there is any reason school would provide any for you...?

The list of what you expect is a really useful starting point. (I'm not sure whether you have texted it to her already? If not, now is the time to show it to her, like Maryz said). Beware having too many expectations - focus on the things that really matter to you. For me, these would be:

• No violence
• No stealing
• Sticking to agreements
• Letting me know where s/he is at night

I remember Maryz had another rule about always going to school/college, which I think is a really good idea (I can remember being quite envious of that one, because my DS had already dropped out ).

You'll probably have others... Go for it! :)

Ds didn't come home last night...dh tried to pick him up at 10, sposed to be home at 10 on school nights, but refused to say where he was...wanted to stay out later....dh got the usual abuse down the phone. Have rung and rung him this morning....just got text to say 'going to school'.

Feel like saying...balls, do what you bloody well like... but think we need to have some rules still???...even if he doesn't stick to them?? Coming in on time is one of p'raps three rules?!

And he's only 15...there have been nights when we have just gone to bed when he hasn't come home cos we're so knackered...which is wrong of us given his age?? But never know where to look for him either when he does this...his 'friends' are all so transient...don't know who they are let alone where they live?! I'll have social services banging on the door soon.....?

I'll get the usual "you don't care about me, you didn't even come looking for me!" later i expect..... but have long since stopped trying to fold a drunk/stoned 6ft 2" spitting machine into the car...!?

doinmummy I was, like you, at breaking point before the summer and went for counselling, not something I would have ever done before. It did really help me get some clarity about lots of things.

Do you work at all? I managed to get a referral free and very quickly via my occupational health department...work for NHS....just a thought if waiting times are long. I hope you manage to get something sorted...as the others said I'm sure it will help you.

I'm also NHS Blue . I havent thought about Occy Health . I'll give them a call.

I second occ health counselling, I work in the NHS too and found the occ health counsellor brilliant.
I don't understand why I manage to deal with challenging patients ( and staff) effectively in my professional life, but make a complete hash of it when dealing with DD when she is going off on one. I think it's because I'm too emotionally involved in the situation.
blueRach it's bloody difficult when you're dealing with a toddler in an adult body, gone are the days when you can just pick them up and remove them from a situation. DD is 6 inches taller and much heavier than me, so if she won't do something and won't talk or listen to me, I'm stuffed. Sigh

Ohhh, I don't work in the NHS, but I do work in social care. I wonder whether it's just a co-incidence that so many of us work in 'caring professions', or whether there is some odd dynamic going on? Like you Bright, I find it puzzling that I'm so competent at work and so discombobulated by DS1... I used to find it humiliating too, but I'm past the point of shame now

blue, I also fought a long battle with DS about coming-in time, at the same age, and with the same 10pm 'curfew'. Like you I felt it was late enough for a school night, and like your DS, my DS consistently broke it, and stayed out outrageously late quite often, and sometimes didn't come home. It was one of our biggest points of conflict :( I didn't think to ask him "Well, if I was prepared to negotiate, what time would you say was reasonable to come in on a school night" for a very, very long time (I think probably because I felt like I was losing too much control any way, and that would lose me more)... But in the end I did, and was gob-smacked that his answer was just 10:30! Then when I agreed to the time he'd suggested, he stuck to it much more reliably - not 100% of the time, but much, much more often...

With hindsight, I think (a) there's something almost symbolic about coming-in time at this age (like always asking for food after they've brushed their teeth or refusing to wear a coat when they're younger ) and (b) there actually are a few teens that age whose parents do let them come in whenever they like, so it sort of 'whets the appetite' of those who aren't. With hindsight, I'd've negotiated with him sooner - especially since he wasn't actually ever asleep before about midnight . Maybe worth a try? :)

Dd home for a visit this evening, didn't go well, I can't put my finger on it but she was antsy and awkward ( nothing awful, she didn't turn on me or anything but she wasn't communicative, and seemed hell bent on trying to wind me up). The old gut churning feeling is back.
She has lost her memory stick with her college work on it, and still hasn't filled in the forms she needs for her college placement (she is supposed to have a key worker to support her, but she doesn't seem to do anything useful). The college have made it clear that they weren't keen on accepting her and are trying to convince her she isn't up to the course,
; this is just playing into their hands.
She also seems so lonely, having lost contact with all her old school friends and doesn't seem to have made any new ones, I think she is embarrassed about where she is living.
Sorry this is such a negative post, I just needed to offload.
Anyone got a spare magic wand?

I remember when I was about 18 coming home up the road one night at about midnight, and finding my 16 year old brother sitting on next door's front wall.

I asked him what he was doing there (it was freezing) and he said "they want me in at midnight, so I'm bloody well going to sit here until at least 1 am".

And that was his attitude. If they said 11, he would come in at 12, if they said 12 he would refuse point blank to come in until 1.

Which is why my advice always is: don't lay down rules that you can't enforce. Obviously for "normal" teenagers (like my dd and ds2), you have rules, and bedtimes, and rewards and consequences and punishments. But for those kids who have gone beyond those rules, you need to have another way of dealing with it.

Counselling really helped me to see this. As did parenting classes.

So with a 15 year old who won't come in. Say "I expect you to be in or to have texted me by x o'clock. If you don't, I will go to bed and lock the door. When you come home, ring the bell."

If you have a consequence you can use (phone, xbox, whatever) use it. If you don't, just let them in, say nothing and go back to bed. Because rowing about it doesn't help.

Brightspark - your dd sounds like my ds. His expectations of himself have become so low that he almost seems to want to jeopardise any chances he gets

Can you contact the key worker?

Are there any old school friends who might agree to meet with her over Christmas, maybe? Could you give her something to look forward to?

Or is the novelty of living away maybe wearing off, and if you stick to your guns, remain calm and carry on, will she possibly think that life might be better if she came home [hopeful]?

Bright, no magic wand... Unless counts?!

Did you see the post I made a couple of months ago on someone else's thread about college? I described how my DS had hit rock-bottom college-wise, and what I thought was going on... If you didn't, you might find it interesting...

I also recognise the low expectations/'self-sabotage'/incompetence/yet-another-last-chance syndrome you and MaryZ describe. I think school does a lot of damage to some kids - they have so little self-belief and va-va-voom left by the time they leave (or even earlier, around 15/16), and it takes much longer than you'd imagine for them to recover... And some never do.

DS is transformed no, no, of course I'm not counting chickens by having found a course he actually wants to do. He is happy, he has had almost 100% attendance (he was genuinely sick one day, and went in the next, despite still being poorly), he has got up and out on time, he is doing assignments and he hasn't been horrible to me for weeks... D'you know, he said to me that yesterday was the first day ever in his whole life he'd enjoyed learning... OK, so he probably doesn't remember as far back as primary school, but what a miserable time he must have had at high school... When I look back, because he opted out of stuff and did that jeopardising chances thing, he probably had several years when he spent all day, every day doing things he didn't want to do... Or trying to get out of them...

Does your DD have anything she loves doing in her life? If not, can you help her find something?

ds1 has just got 100% on a test .

Because he is doing something he wants to do.

still not counting chickens, but slightly hopeful

:)

I'm going to slowly work through all the posts on this thread. And join it myself. You may have seen my other thread on this board about my 13 year old dd.

Feeling really battered and low this morning. Horrible, horrible scene last night. I lost my temper. Ended up in a physical tussle. DD on the floor, me practically sitting on her. All witnessed by my younger dc's, her were frightened and upset. I feel sick about it.

And over something so stupid - me asking her to switch her phone off/put it away while she was doing her homework. Her BBM was pinging every 3 minutes with messages. We'd agreed last week at some emotional expense (involved her screaming and shouting) that she won't use her phone/access facebook/go on Youtube while she does homework. She has a big problem with her concentration (which she herself would admit) and a track record of not completing/starting homework, so this is a fundamental thing. She's just started at a new school and needs to get on the right track. Regular homework time and supervision is really key at the moment.

It escalated from me asking her to put her phone away, her refusing and being rude, constant constant aggressive backchat, me raising my voice and shouting, her shouting back at me that my breath stinks and that I was spitting in her face while I was telling her off (and spitting a mouthful of water in my face to illustrate), her drawing my 7 year old (who has ASD) into it. Me taking my laptop away from her (she'd been doing her homework on it) and pushing her out of the kitchen. Her following me around the house, even into my bedroom, trying to pick arguments. In a situation where she is being asked to do something she doesn't want to comply with, her usual strategy is to launch a personal attack on me, which she did.

And I thought, she's not going to talk to me like that in front of my other children, and I went to confiscate her phone. Which was what resulted in the tussle. She then threw a bowl across the kitchen and broke it. Thank god DH arrived back from work at that point otherwise I don't know where it would have ended. I was on the verge of bundling the boys up and going somewhere in the car to get away from her. She smashed a door open and it flew into ds1, hurting his arm. They are scared of her. So am I.

I took the boys out and came back after an hour. All appeared to be reasonably calm. DH took charge of her, and the rest of the evening passed without much more stress, apart from her marching in to the room I use as my office at 9pm and turning the computer off when I was on it - she had decided she needed to do something on it, walked in told me 'get off, I'm using the computer' and when I said 'when I've finished' she reached around me and just turned it off. She also screamed at DH when he asked her to do something, can't remember what (pack her bag for the morning?) and woke the boys up, then went in and drew all over sleeping DS2's face with a green felt tip pen, which then went all over our only nice matching bed linen......

DH had to get her up this morning. It took half an hour of nagging as usual, and she slammed out of the house without talking to me.

I feel sick about it all.

She's 13. I don't know what happens as a parent when a child just point blank refuses to comply with reasonable requests. You feel like you're going into free fall. I keep having to pull back from thinking - 'well, just do what you want then' and stop parenting her in a responsible way. It's especially hard when you feel victimised by personal attacks. It's so distressing - DH has exactly the same expectations of her that I do, asks her to do the same things. She's not usually compliant with him but will eventually do it. But what he doesn't get is the vicious personal attacks that are so upsetting. She saves those for me.

Oh, I really feel for you Shag .

It is so, so difficult to keep cool and calm. But something shifted for me the day I realised that my emotional response wasn't actually helping at all - it was giving him an excuse to behave badly and blame me for it.

Counselling made me see that I couldn't change him, I could only change myself and how I react. And the realisation that he couldn't make me angry, or sad, or frustrated, it was my choice to put those thoughts away and deal with him pragmatically, was a real eyeopener.

I'm out now, but I'll be back later.

Hi all. Am tentatively signing in as haven't been on for a while. I have a 15 year old DS who has been in hospital [psych] for over a year. We are slowly moving forward but he continues to be challenging. I am up and down to Birmingham from Kent twice a week to spend an hour and a half a visit with him.

When I look back now I can't believe things were so bad when he went in. I have no idea when he will come home or indeed if.........

I wannabe, I'm sorry I lost your thread when I was going through a bit of a bad patch . I'm sorry to hear you are still having to travel.

How is your own health? And your younger two?

Its not too bad thanks am just constantly tired........:{
I have filed to have him discharged as the mental health commissioners have only 'found' another medium secure unit in London and I would like him downgraded. He has not been psychotic for nearly a year, is relatively incident free and is taking his meds. He hasn't been outside since his escape and I am worrying he is becoming institutionalised. Even social services don't get why he has to remain. His section is up for renewal and I have a managers hearing monday so will be making the case there............

Hi all i am back again. dS 2 age 12 going downhill at school again. Really do not know what to do. He is ok at home right now, but school is a constant drama. Today he has walked out of 3 lessons, i have had 2 phone calls. I am waiting for my gp to refer for cahms just interested in any any advice about school!

The only advice I can give you, diet, which will probably not be popular, is that your relationship with your son will long outlast your relationship with the school.

Looking back, I wish I had taken my son's side more - I thought I was doing my best for him by backing the school, but in the end all it did was make him hate me and be less likely to accept advice or help from me.

If your son is behaving like that at school at the age of 12, there must be a reason. Either he has issues (in my son's case, he has AS) or there is something going on at school. If you can find out why, you have a better chance of turning things around. If the school starts off being understanding, it's better than if they just take the "he has to behave or he's out" stance.

wannabe, will he come home if they downgrade him? Or is there a middle ground between secure unit and home? Because I can see it being hard to cope at home, for both you and him.