MaryZ's support thread for parents of troubled teenagers

[MaryZcary]

I am starting this thread in the hope that it will become a safe space for those of us strugging with very challenging teenage behaviour.

I'm hoping that it will be a support thread, rather than descend as so many threads do into a "criticism of the parents". Those of us in this situation know that it is pretty much impossible to just "tell them to stop" or to "ground them", and taking away phones, money and gadgets leads to lying stealing and running away .

Sadly it seems cannabis is at the bottom of an awful lot of these children's problems, and I'm hoping we can talk about that here without having to defend ourselves against the "cannabis does no harm" brigade. So if anyone tries to turn it into an argument about whether cannabis is addictive or harmful, could you please just ignore them and hope they go away - or start another thread which I can hide where they can argue away happily.

Anyway, sign in if you are interested. I'll be back later.

Thanks Maryz.
I have long thought he may have issues but so far nothing has been found.

The school have been good, last year was much worse, he appeared to be a bully. But we seem to have got over that thankfully.

This year it just appears he cannot concrntrate and as soon as he gets pulled up on it he walks. Silly things too like burning something with a bunson burner.
He is never going to enjoy school, i don't think the sit in class learning suits him at all.
Recently he was singled out for bring involved in a fight and turned out he had been stood watching not fighting. But cos he is known he got mentioned by the teacher. I did jump on this and said its unfair he may have been watching but do were 30 others and they were not pulled in.

Your advice that my relationship will long outlive school years has given me something to think about, you are of course right!
Good to get some input from others who have been there.

I remember the day I picked ds up at school after yet another suspension and him saying to me "you know, Mum, if they found a body in the corridor they would arrest me first and ask questions later" and he was right. Every single thing that went wrong in the school was blamed on him in the end .

Has your son been investigated for ADHD? ds2 is currently being assessed and the school is convinced he will get a diagnosis. He has trouble concentrating and is incredibly impulsive - burning something with a Bunsen burner without thinking is just the type of thing he would do.

But the difference between ds1 and ds2 is that ds2 is very good at apologising, is obviously trying his best, and is generally a happy kid, so the school are understanding which helps. With ds1, they (and he) just wanted out and with hindsight I should have removed him earlier.

ADHD are my thiughts. He has just had a SEN assesment at school and it wasn't mentioned. Waiting for cahms and the teacher who told me to go to gp to request mentioned adhd too.
Can i ask when you did remove him and what did he do then?

Oh, he got himself expelled, by deliberately smoking dope in front of a teacher. He told me later he did it on purpose because he couldn't face one more day in there and he was desperate.

Unfortunately he was out of school completely (from 15) for a couple of years. He's now 18 and got a discretionary place in college, which he is enjoying. But it was an awful couple of years. With hindsight, I would have moved him to a non-academic school, if I could have found one.

I don't think school is a great place for many of these kids. I wrote a post ^ up there MaryZcary Wed 31-Oct-12 09:20:39 and we had a bit of a dscussion about it. It must be horrible to spend your entire childhood stuck in a school you hate . And as dd pointed out (she finds school easy), schools constantly reward children who find it easy to sit still and concentrate without trying, and constantly punish those who find it impossible, making no allowance for how hard they may be trying. Which must be soul-destroying for kids who simply can't^ (as opposed to won't) fit in.

I agree completely. My two other DC are great at school and ds2 compares himself to them, but he is not the same at all.

Just feel like there are no alternatives at the moment and know he hates being there

Yup, I too agree that schools are often soul-destroying. It's one of my bug bears and I bang on about it often. :(

I also agree that some kids, like ours, gain reputations - perhaps deserved - but they are then not treated fairly...

Maryz, my DS was once arrested put in isolation for pushing a younger child over in the corridor. He was adamant he hadn't. He said he had bumped into him accidentally, then helped him up and apologised. But he was told he could 'confess' and do the rest of the day locked up in isolation, or deny it and stay in there til he confessed. He did the half-day.

Then he arrived the next morning and they told him he he had to do another day anyway. He walked out and came home, fuming. I tended to believe him, but by then I was battle weary wary, so I phoned to talk to the member of staff who had 'seen' him, to find out what had happened from someone else's POV.

It quickly became clear that this staff member had just jumped to conclusions. I asked him if he'd spoken to the younger child: he hadn't. I asked him if he'd spoken to any of the three friends who were with DS at the time: he hadn't. I asked him if he'd looked at the CCTV footage: he hadn't. He told me he didn't need to because he "knew what had happened". I pointed out that everyone makes mistakes sometimes, and asked him to actually seek some evidence. He refused, again saying he "knew what had happened".

He then tried to intimidate me, telling me they would permanently exclude DS if he didn't 'confess' and do two days in isolation as punishment. I told him that of course I would fight permanent exclusion because I would go insane with DS at home all day, every day when there was actually no evidence that he'd done anything wrong. He told me my son had to report to isolation in the morning or I could consider him excluded, and that the conversation was over!

I went higher, to a deputy head who I'd found to be reasonable in the past, and explained the situation. I asked, and she arranged, for them to review the video and talk to the other children. Everything backed up my son's version of events. If he hadn't had a bloody-minded assertive mum to back him up, he would have ended up permanently excluded.

Oo, what a rant! I'm still angry about that, aren't I?!

diet... My son was excluded for two weeks in y9, because he and friends were playing with a lighter, setting fire to bits of paper, in the sports hall one break-time. Stupid sods.

He used to do a lot of walking out, too :(

flow thanks for picking up on my post. The annoying thing is she started college really positively, and is working well (bearing in mind she was barely in school the previous year), she spent half term with my parents, and worked every day on her assignments. She was also keen to retake a couple of GCSE modules which would give her a C pass in Eng lit and maths. The course tutor keeps telling her the course is too hard for her and trying to persuade her to change to a lower level course (this was before any of her work was marked, which she did well in) . It seems they are hellbent on knocking what motivation and self belief she has managed to achieve. She has problems organising herself due to her dyspraxia, but they don't seem to grasp this.
She has refused to contact any of her old friends, just saying she has nothing in common with them anymore, I think there is more behind it, but she isn't saying anything. I think any attempt to organise anything on her behalf would end up in tears, at 16 , I can't organise her social life for her.
Trying to get her interested in something is something I have spent years trying to do, with not much success; but I'll keep trying.
wannabee Welcome to the thread! I have read your previous threads and remember some of your story. I so hope that DS gets placed nearer home,MIT sounds like DS has made small steps in the right direction, the idea that he has not been outside for so long is awful, it is likely to make him so more fearful of the world outside.I hope the meeting goes well. Let us know how it goes.

The situations I'm reading about on here are so difficult - I hope everybody is able to find the right help for themselves and their DC. My own situation is not terrible by comparison, but of course seems overwhelming to me at times (I am a chronic worrier anyway).

DD will see cahms next week - I hope she will accept that they are there to help her. She too, is unhappy at school. She is now Year 13 and I've told her she doesn't have to finish her A levels if she doesn't want to, but I think she feels somehow "trapped" - can't see what else she would do if she doesn't finish them. I've told the school if she doesn't feel up to going in, then she won't be in. Much easier to do at her age than 14/15 though.

Flow well done you for fighting his corner, i think i will be doing more of that in the future.
Dd has been the problem tonight!! She is so loud constantly dhouting tonight! Year 7 and seen a change so trying to stamp that out all together now!

That sounds a bit rubbish, Bright :( Your DD needs college to be a positive experience and a fresh start, not a continuation of school. Is there any alternative - another college she could go to?

I know what you mean about trying, and failing, to get DCs interested in things. DS did lots of stuff when he was younger, but then nothing after he started high school :( I offered all sorts over the years - music lessons, activity weekends, scouts, archery, trial bikes, a lifeguard course, and more - but he couldn't or wouldn't do any of it. They seem to actively deprive themselves of nice experiences :( I kept hoping I'd find something that'd tempt him...

It's a real frustration, because we come here and remind each other how important - essential - it is to look after ourselves and do some enjoyable things to help us survive the stress of parenting... But our kids also need to do enjoyable things to help them survive the stress of school, I think, but don't... :(

Ha, I fell asleep answering Bright last night, so posted before I'd seen willwe and diet's posts...

They do get stuck, willwe... But it is a difficult one. Last year me DS made the wrong choice and started a course that wasn't for him... He stopped going, so from Easter to beginning of September he was doing nothing, and this was perhaps the worst time of all - things went very bad for a while - drugs, arrests, hanging around with very unsavoury characters, becoming coming very close to being an unsavoury character himself... I strongly believe they need something to do...

diet I do think fighting their corner is important, but it can be so hard, because they actually do bad stuff that you can't support, and you can see that their 'bad reputation' at school is to an extent deserved... But there also is, clearly, a lot of unfairness. For me, the most reliable 'sign' that there was something unfair going on was when DS was prepared to get into more trouble to argue his corner.

Also, I was absolutely clear about 'backing up the school' when he was younger: if he was in trouble there, he was in trouble with me too. But actually, I don't think that did anyone any favours, and eventually I learned that it was better to just leave the school to their own discipline...

Morning flow, she did have a place at another college, but it was a long way from where she is staying, so she went there for the sake of expediency. Because she is a LAC, we had little choice but to go along with it. So I'm just trying to concentrate on buoying up her confidence and encouragement. But it's a fine line between encouragement and DD seeing my interest as nagging or interference, something she is extremely sensitive to, like most other teens.
It's hard enough to get the balance right with teens that don't have problems, I had to take a deep breath and step back with DS when he started 6th form, and just let him get on with it, it worked and he rose to the occasion, because he was genuinely interested in his subjects.
It's so much harder to help those for whom school just doesn't fit, especially when they have learning difficulties such as dyslexia or dyspraxia. DD often said she had to work twice as hard to get half as far, and I think the pressure got too much and she just gave up, despite being just as bright as DS and being at a supportive school.
Trying to resist the temptation to jump in and try and solve the situation is really hard, but there isn't an alternative. Learning to take responsibility for yourself is an essential part of growing up, some take a lot longer than others. Our role needs to be their advocate, a sounding board, and a there to provide hankies and an ear if it all goes tits up. Easy to say...

Flow i have been backing the school up and imposing sanctions at home too, but have recently thought that surely i am just making him miserable at home as well as school. So now i am trying to seperate the two a bit.
Not sure it will make alot of diffrence but thats how i am going to be for now. I shall still discuss any incidents at school with him but will not give an additional sanction at home!

Things improved in this house when I stopped double punishments. If he was punished at school, I wouldn't punish him more at home.

It meant he was more likely to tell me what was happening at school, which was a real eye-opener as I hadn't realised how difficult he was finding it.

Thats what i am hoping for Maryz. Thank you both of you for all the advice, really helps as none of my freinds have children of this age yet so do not understand at all.

hi all can I join in?
I have ds1 (16) ds2 (15) ds3 (13) dd (9) and ds4 (5).
my troublesome one is ds3 13. I have given up on school and took him out to home educate a month ago, after returning in September and him being suspended in the first 2 weeks and 2 meetings lined up about him. I just decided I couldn't do it any more, endless meetings and suggestions that make no difference. I have felt very let down by the primary and secondary schools that ds has been to as he has always been a handful and I've never found them to be very helpful. personal I think he has adhd and odd to some degree. but having only seen the ed psych once we got no where. his friends in school don't help and encourage the bad behaviour. he started smoking last year (just cigarettes) but I could so easily see it turning into other things as he gets older. he was nearly expelled last year, had spent plenty of time suspended or in the inclusion room. I feel less stressed now that we don't have school and his friend group there to worry about. I just hope we can make home education work as his behaviour isn't confined to school. we have regular refusal to do as told, near constant winding up and upsetting of his siblings, temper tantrums that have involved many broken things in the house and physical fights with his brothers. he has stolen for us when going out with his mates.
but all that said he is like a jeckle and Hyde as he has a very kind sweet,helpful, and generous side to him. he is very charming, very much your loveable rouge, we just don't see this side as much as we would like to.
I'm not ashamed to tell people what he gets up to and mostly find people are supportive, but there are a few that just make you feel like a bad parent and tell you what you should be doing ( as if I haven't already tried every trick in the book and failed) and now the ones who tell me I'm playing into his hands by taking him out of school ( even though it was something I had decided on before even talking to him).
I know I'm not a bad parent even though I do feel it most of the time, I have no trouble with the other 4 (yet) and was one of those who would probably blamed the parents before, but now I have more understanding all children are different and respond to things in a different way. what worked for the 4 of them doesn't work for the 5th. all parents with troublesome children need understanding and support not to be criticised.

Good grief foxy, five children?!

MN really does need a medal emoticon!

I don't need a medal for 5 kids just for not having strangled ds3 lol

Haha! :) How is home ed going? I thought about that for my DS1 many times, but didn't, basically because I knew I would want to strangle him by 9:15 every morning, rather than just in the evenings! There was just no way I could have dealt with him without the respite school (mostly) provided...

well we haven't been doing much home ed yet, i've been following advice from the other home educators and been giving him time to unschool. behavioural wise its not too much different but i feel less stressed and so does ds. i no longer have to worry every time the phone rings, is it the school? what's he done now? or when someone knocks on the door is it ds as he decided to walk home again. we are no longer having arguments about what happened in school and are relationship with ds is improving slowly.
its something i wish i had done earlier as we have had problems for a long time. primary school were no help when i would ask about what more can be done i would just get " he's young", "he's silly and immature" he'll grow out of it", in one breath and "you have to accompany him on school trips or he can't go"in another. i would see the teacher weekly for updates on his behaviour, the head even told me he was on an IEP, i didn't have a clue what she was on about and no he wasn't on one so she didn't even know what they were doing.he started on at the beginning of yr 6, during which he had lunch time suspensions and exclusion for 2 days for swearing at the head. nothing came of the IEP as he went to comp.
Comp started with high hopes they seemed to notice his behaviour, got us in touch with Barbados who come and worked with him and us for a while (until funding stopped). this helped as she made suggestions to the school about things they could do to help, all of which they already did but just hadn't implemented with ds, like a time out card for when he felt he was losing his temper, for him to leave the class and calm down. the school refered him to the ed psych, but them they seemed to lose interest in helping and every month someone else was bumped up on the ed psych list, until ds was suspended for 2 weeks while they decided if he was going to be kicked out. he was involved in and rampage around the school with another pupil that involved swearing at teachers, throwing chairs, banging on class doors disrupting the lessons, calling the caretaker out for a fight and ( although this is the only bit he still says didn't happen despite cctv) attempting to vandalise the caretakers motorbike. the other boy involved was kicked out but has returned upon appeal and they said they give ds a second chance as he has shown improvement in behaviour, personally i think its because i complained about them not seeming bothered any more and passing him by every time the ed psych visited. he has seen her since, and she made recommendations about structuring his free time ( like that's really going to work), encouraging him in drama as he has no problems with behaviour in this ( but the drama group ain't cool so he was going nowhere near it) and she did state that she felt he only attended school for the social aspect and unless they could engage him in learning they're sanctions wouldn't be effective ( something i already knew).
so here we are home schooling i want to get him to enjoy learning again as school has switched him off completely. i hope that without the stress of school he can learn to be calmer about things, well i hope. he's a red headed Aries so i don't know how much luck i'll have at calming him but i'm gonna try lol.

All sounds rather familiar... :(
How fantastic that at least THAT set of stresses are over with!

Thanks flow -I'm hoping dd doesn't have too many difficult days - I can see it isn't good for her to be doing nothing for any length of time (don't see her going "off the rails", but self harm, pills etc are a possiblity - have had both in the last year), but if there is a day or so she just can't face, I'll go with it.

I really worry about what is going to happen to those that find school so difficult when 18 is the compulsory leaving age. 16 is hard enough and those 2 neither child nor adult years bring enough other problems.

Yes. Quite. DS2 will have to stay 'til 18. That would have been utterly unbearable for DS1, but I'm hoping it won't be as hard for him...

Well I've blown it big time this morning. He didn't go to college yesterday and needed to go today but wouldn't get up. He's been out all weekend and only came home at 2.30am. No contact from him but I knew he was okay as I texted his friend and he replied.

We've had a pretty good week actually because he started a part time job and actually went in for all of his shifts and did 2 days at college (out of 3) as well.

But this morning when he didn't get up I lost the rag. Shouted, pulled his duvet off everything that I know makes things worse. I just couldn't help it.

Had counselling last week but to be honest it was bloody useless. The counsellor ended up telling me all about her own son who died from an overdose and I spent the session being sympathetic to her.

so pleased to see that people are finding support here. its so tough being a parent of a teen when they have issues. I don't have the support with friends as whether they are telling the truth or not the ones with teens all claim that they have no issues. So i feel that I have no one to talk to.

I finally got a response from his school and have a meeting with them tomorrow. Tbh im not holding out much hope of a positive response from them. Hes not disruptive at school he just doesnt work.

Is depression hereditry? I wonder if its my fault? Im diagnosed clinical depression (just about to start on ad's again) and wonder if its something ive done? I know that i have over reacted in the past and not given ds1 the benefit of the doubt, until proven innocent/guilty.

I feel as parent i just want to make it all better for my children and i get so frustrated that i cant do that for ds1.

ds1 (10) his behaviour is taking a turn for the worse, he shows a complete lack of respect for anyone and is often rude to adults (not school but family), hes become lazy. He still does his sports (rugby, football and lacrosse) but has quit several activities as they required more effort than turning up for training and matches, such as karate where he needed to practice at home for belt gradings. I did have a long chat with him where i thought id got through to him about how it really wouldnt be good to follow his borthers path and that in order to do what he wants to do in the future he will need a good educational and discipline record. He wants to join the marines, has done since he was 3 or 4.

I kind of feel that ive given up on ds1, hes already had forms to complete for resits of 4 gcses, but if hes not going to put the effort in hes not going to get better grades so why should i waste £50+ of money that i dont have spare to pay for the re sits?

Hes not going to get the grades he needs for college and without any gcses he wont be able to get a job or apprenticeship. Im not sure what kind of job he thinks he will get without any qualifications at 16 anyway. He doesnt either, he just seems to think everything will land in his lap.