MaryZ's support thread for parents of troubled teenagers

[MaryZcary]

I am starting this thread in the hope that it will become a safe space for those of us strugging with very challenging teenage behaviour.

I'm hoping that it will be a support thread, rather than descend as so many threads do into a "criticism of the parents". Those of us in this situation know that it is pretty much impossible to just "tell them to stop" or to "ground them", and taking away phones, money and gadgets leads to lying stealing and running away .

Sadly it seems cannabis is at the bottom of an awful lot of these children's problems, and I'm hoping we can talk about that here without having to defend ourselves against the "cannabis does no harm" brigade. So if anyone tries to turn it into an argument about whether cannabis is addictive or harmful, could you please just ignore them and hope they go away - or start another thread which I can hide where they can argue away happily.

Anyway, sign in if you are interested. I'll be back later.

Yes, I know the Pandora's box story. ummm. Hope - we all need it, don't we? I think 'hope' is good, but 'expectation' can be dangerous...

If I allow myself to be a little bit phylosophical (or soppy?) all the things happening with DD and us made me to learn to 'accept' (i.e. I accept 'I'm angry', 'DD's behaviour is shit', etc..). It doesn't mean I like them, but just to accept. I tried so hard to 'change' things and her. I can't!! I just can't! It was liberating to understand that I can't.

Sorry, too. I go on and on.... I'd better stop...:P

Thanks for the understanding Melange

teapot/flow, it's the old mantra, isn't it -

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.

I'm not sure about the God bit - like Pandora and her bittersweet hope it's a bit ott for me and frankly I have trouble believing in a God who has made ds1 as unhappy as he is.

But the first bit is right.

Interestingly, in our house I have dd who wants to do occupational therapy or SN teaching, and work with children with problems, especially autism. And ds2 who is the most compassionate 14 year old boy you could meet, with a huge amount of empathy for ds1, and for everyone else.

So ds1 has made them what they are, and I suspect both will leave a mark on the world because of that.

And I know I am a better person - more stressed, depressed, unhappy at times, but better and nicer because of ds1.

Swings and roundabouts, maybe [hopeful]

[philosophical emoticon]

hugs and xxx (allow me to be soppy) - it's Christmas time, isn't it?

I didn't have any kind of religious upbringing, maryz, so I didn't know this prayer... IMO, like many other bits of religious writing, it's a frustrating mix of useful truth and unhelpful nonsense and guilt-tripping. But what you are both saying about acceptance is true IME too... Maybe we're onto something... Zen and the Art of Raising Teenagers?!

Any religious faith I had (wishy washy Cof E) has been knocked out of me by the last two years courtesy of some parents at church who told their DCs not to have anything to do with DD when she came out of hospital and the idea that some higher being thought it was a good idea to put DD and us through hell for the past two years. I agree that acceptance othings I cannot change is the key! But I'm not sure I always have the wisdom to know the difference. Maybe NeitZsche's idea that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger is nearer the mark. You get through things somehow and you come out battered bruised and with a lot of grey hair, but you are still standing, still fighting and eventually you come out the other side. DD wants to be a nurse, her experiences will make her a better one, more compassionate and less judgemental than those who have swanned through life with nothing more to worry about than. Having a bad hair day.
We're all getting very philosophical aren't we? Maybe because it's that time of year.

Sorry for typos and random punctuation , blame the iPad !

"I am a teacher in the early years of my career at an inner city secondary "

I've had teachers on the phone in exasperation about dd arguing with them in class. Experienced teachers at her inner city school. Perversely I find it comforting in the sense that it brings it home to me that it's not just the way I handle her which results in conflict at home, it's the fact that dd is VERY oppositional.

I find myself saying 'just don't engage with her!'

I feel very sorry for her teachers. But at least they've got the option of detention, which is more than I've got!

Sorry I'm late to this thread - I said I would like a support thread and then buggered off for a while...

I have a troubled teenager who has turned into a troubled twentyager. Everything solution you can come up with (bar sending him to live on a desert island until he is forty), we have attempted but he has gone his own way regardless.

We are now at the point along the line where we have accepted that he has to be his own man, even if that means his life is a slow-motion car crash.

And, like the wise MaryZ, I try to stay very positive and look at the fact that he is still part of our lives and is fairly healthy despite the drink and drugs as an enormous achievement.

He is currently being dealt with by the full force of the law for his latest (non family-related) transgression , which is quite nice as we a) don't have to have deal with the fall-out, and b) we know where he will be for Christmas, ie eating dinner with the other inmates. See how positive I am?

Evening all. Welcome back Laura, sorry about your son . I remember two Christmases ago feeling ds might be safer in jail than on the streets, but it's still tough when it actually happens. I hope you manage to have a worry-free Christmas, even if it isn't exactly as you would like it to be.

I also found myself telling teachers how to talk to ds1, but sadly a lot of them ignored it. Now I'm doing the same with ds2 - if they are straight with him, and tell him what they expect, he usually conforms. If they are all wishy-washy, and let him away with things, it rapidly goes downhill - and if they are sarcastic and belittling he gets very angry so it excallates. I wish they would keep to short instructions and immediate consequences, but a lot of teachers don't seem to be able to do that. They want to dish out long-drawn-out lectures

Thanks for the support Melange

That how to talk to them thing is interesting, MaryZ. I'd say the same is/was true for my DS1 too...

Is everyone having a quietish weekend? >crossed fingers emoticon

Oh yeah, it's quiet here alright. DD was supposed to come home to day for a roast dinner, and to ice the Christmas cake and help decorate the tree. But she 'forgot' and arranged to go out with friends, I suspect she went off the idea when she found out her brother wasn't home until tomorrow. There seems to be no support to help her to return home. I just don't know what I can do about it, every month away takes her further away. I would gladly trade this peace and quiet to have her back. Sorry everyone... Feeling a bit sorry for myself today

Oh bright :(
I can barely imagine how painful it must be to want your daughter home, and not to be able to make that happen :(

HUG

Thanks. It's been over six months now and I still can't get used to it, I have gone through counselling and I've thrown myself into work, but it still not getting any easier, it's like a wound that won't heal over.
It's not like I've forgotten what led up to her going into care, the self harm, running away, the violent outbursts, the binging and the trashing the house, and the visits from the police. All the things that you and everyone else on this thread are struggling with, lurching from one crisis to the next while hanging onto what's left of your sanity. Yet we keep going, grabbing onto every thread of hope and celebrating even the tiniest inprovement, learning not to expect too much but riding out each incident until some day in the future.
So I suppose we keep on keeping on.

I doubt you can 'go through' counselling when it comes to something like this - you need ongoing support. It is a real problem that it seems usual for people only to be allowed 6 weeks on the NHS. :(

Have you told your DD what you're feeling? Would it be possible to say (or have you already) "I've been thinking - I'd really like you home. How do you feel about that?"

It must be particularly hard at this time of year, Brightspark . But the fact that she is happy and has friends is a good thing, when you look back to the fights and the violence of a year ago.

I think you have to continue to look at the good points of the way things have turned out. You can see her, be civilised, you even miss her (and I bet she misses you). Six months must seem such a long time, but if it means you and she have a relationship for the rest of your lives, that six months, or even a year or two, is a very short time in a lifetime.

Yep, keep on keeping on

The general feeing is that no pressure should be put on DD regarding coming home as Now she is 16, if it all went wrong she would not have the chance to return to where she is. Also , because she is doing well, going to college , being discharged from CAMHS etc, no one wants to rock the boat. I suppose I'm scared to ask DD in case I don't like the answer. I wouldn't expect or want it to happen immediately, just to feel that she will return home within the next few months. The only thing I've said is to tell her that this is her home, and she can come any time.
As for counselling, I did get more than my allotted 6 weeks, but it felt like groundhog day, just turning over the same stuff without getting any nearer any feeling of acceptance. I'm not even sure I want to accept it in some ways, it would feel like I'm giving up. and that is the last thing I want to do.

You are not giving up. You have made a structured decision, it is working out well, it is a success.

And I think they are probably right, because it would be unlikely that she would move home and it all go smoothly. If she is happy where she is, why rock the boat, because in two years time when she is 18 you might be desperate for her to be able to move out - I know ds would love to have somewhere else to go.

And you know, it will be easier when she is 18, because then it won't be unusual for her to live away from home. And that isn't too far away, so at least there is a time limit on your guilt.

For me, it was easier when ds turned 18, because he was no longer the only kid out of school, drinking at the weekends, staying out all night. Other people's children are doing the same things, so I no longer feel guilty.

I hope you are feeling better today Brightspark - you have such a lot on your plate, I'm not surprised you feel so sad at times. Your DD definitely sounds as if she is maturing though and your reminder to her that your home is still her's, is so wonderful, generous and supportive.

Thanks MaryZ - DS1 will be 'banged-up' for quite some time, by the looks of things so we will have to get used to it. We have been through all the anguish over it and now are fairly stoic. It sounds horribly unmotherly but it is quite hopeful to see him so upset by it - everything slides off him like a Teflon coating normally and this is the first time he has actually said 'I wish I had listened to you'. I nearly asked the wardens, who is this and where is my son?

He is having some counselling in there, which he has always refused to engage with in the past so maybe something is changing.

I strongly believe there is some Asperger's mixed up in his bad behaviour - several of the younger members of the family have had a diagnosis, including my youngest, and most of the symptoms fit DS1. Throw drugs and drink into the mix and you have the potential for the extreme behaviour that he exhibits.

It's sad but strangely reassuring to see such a number of families going through the same mess that we have. We have been so obsessed with keeping alid on it all for such a long time, so other people wouldn't judge him (so that when he grew out of it, he could leave all that shitty behaviour behind with no damage done) that it still feels incrediblely disloyal mentioning all this

I can absolutely see the logic of not 'pushing' DD about coming home. You have seen things improve so much for her. You may find that once she is 18 (or even 17) and 'independent' of you, and the pressure is off almost completely, then things will improve further. Sooo hard for you tho', Bright. You are so very, very obviously not 'giving up', tho' it probably would have been easier for if you had. Your love for you DD shines through. :)

It's really hard for you too Laura. I understand the feeling of relief at seeing your DS upset - I get this too - it is a sign that they have some remaining morality, even when they don't show it so all your hard work hasn't been in vain.

Incidentally, I have an acquaintance who has children about 15-20 years older than mine. Before I even had my DCs, her eldest had been sent to prison for armed robbery, for holding up a PO with a toy gun when he was stoned. It was very shocking, because I didn't know enough at the time to realise that teenagers from even the most 'respectable' families can go badly off the rails. He did 4 years in prison. He has now been out for over a decade, and has lived an entirely respectable life ever since, working full time in a responsible public sector job, getting married, and last year, having a baby. :)

Well, they have just confirmed an ADHD diagnosis for ds2, so we are on the merry-go-round again

The difference is that he is willing to accept help - he wants to do well and likes us, so I'm hoping for an easier road.

Off to the SN boards to enquire about medication [sigh]

ho-hum.

Sorry, Laura, I ignored your post.

ds1 has AS too - and the mixture of AS, oppositional behaviour, trouble at school, drugs and mixing with a cohort of, erm, interesting characters who bolster up his anti-family, anti-establishment obsessions is a disaster.

I have no idea how he isn't in jail yet - the police are certainly following him around atm as they are convinced he is dealing. I'm not sure they are right - he is hopelessly disorganised, so I can't imagine he would be a successful dealer, but if he is I'm sure they will catch him (and if i discover he is, that's the end of him living here).

I'm sorry to hear about your DS2 MaryZ. Or maybe I'm not... Like you say, it means he'll get support that he is willing to accept, which should take you all on a very different path from the one you're travelling with DS1 - a much more positive one.

Oh I really hope DS1 isn't dealing. :(

(BTW, if you haven't seen it already, take a look at the 'Violent Daughter' thread... I reckon she could do with your advice and support, if you have any energy to spare today :) )

Thanks flow.

ds2 sees diagnosis as a good thing, but I'm a little worried it will now become an excuse for doing fuck all . The doctor was very funny yesterday. He mentioned a non-medication treatment route, and when ds2 asked what that meant he said "getting your act together".

I'll have a look at the other thread in a bit (I have a leaking toilet and a plumber here atm). But these days I just repeat your advice, so I'm pretty much redundant!

We do seem to have scared all the "just ground him/it's the parents' fault" posters away from the teenager boards these days, don't we

Hi Maryz I supose in a way its a good thing that you have clarity on the diagnosis for Ds2 . At least now he can get the help he needs. I am glad he's cooperating ...that should make it easier for you to support him

I really relate to the keeping quiet to protect your ds Laura . I do the same in the hope that when if he grows out of this he will not have the whole community thinking badly of him.

We have just been called into school this morning because of all Ds's constantly taking time off. He's no longer allowed to go on the school trip he was looking forward to. I think it's good he has consequences for his actions but am fearful he'll just use it as an excuse to hate the teachers even more...

School suggested they have heard rumours Ds is dealing. Could be true but he's never got any money and is also so disorganised. I told the school I think it's unlikely could be true. If he is I am sure he'll just end up owning money to dodgey types...

Yes we do seem to have scared away all the judgy mums

I have kept DS1's behaviour quiet for such a long time, that it has come as a massive shock to most of my friends .

The thing is, he is Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde - quiet, articulate, well-spoken and trustworthy when sober or un-stoned (is that a word? It should be ) and violent, impulsive and aggressive when under the influence of anything. But, as we have kept the 'dark stuff' so well hidden, it has come out of the blue to many friends and family, who can't believe my lovely son is a guest of Her Majesty.

MaryZ I suppose now you will know with clarity exactly what you are up against and how to help DS2. Even if you are expecting it, it always comes as a shock when you get that final diagnosis, so I hope you are feeling okay.

You may say judgy - I say hopelessly naive