Would you mind if your teenager smoked weed?

[SecretSquirrels]

DS1 now 16 has recently mentioned several times that he has seen people he knows smoking weed. Not any of his friends but his year group and younger. He is very straight laced and judgy about it but reckons there has been zero drugs education at school and there should be (his opinion as well as mine).

I have seen two threads recently on which many, many posters openly admitted to smoking weed. I don't know whether these are very young parents with young children or whether they have teenagers but I am genuinely shocked.
Am I so out of touch or out of date that this is now normal?

Bumbaclot you have actually managed to annoy me greatly, my brother doesn't have Parkinsons or cancer, how does weed help him?

He doesn't drink either.

Your narrow minded, one sided, unbalanced view has really pissed me off.

Do you think I'm sensationalist too?

I'd be more worried if my teenagers start to smoke cigarettes, and I have told them so. But then I live somewhere where recreational marijuana smoking is fairly mainstream so I know that for most people it is no different from having a drink, something that is just a nice way to relax after a hard day or week at work but not in any way essential. I did have a friend who was a very heavy user, had a psychotic episode and was sectioned, but then I also know someone who drank their way to an early death, and in both cases there were significant underlying reasons for their behaviour and the amount they smoked/drank was way way beyond the norm.

I know that some people have had very bad experiences with children and drugs, so I'm not planning to be blase. NB I was a child that drank cider in the 80s, and no one drank halves! Getting hold of alcohol is at least as easy as buying cannabis and evidence suggests much more likely to cause harm (just look at casualty records).

It would really bother me. His dad (and our whole group of friends) smoked weed multiple times every day (a lot of them still do). I didn't because I was totally unable to inhale the one time I tried it! His dad no longer smokes but this is because he totally fucked himself up with it and nearly ended up sectioned because of his behaviour (we weren't together btw, split up when DS was 6 months - weed was far more important than DS or I).

I have a friend who is a wreck - has been sectioned, can't function well around people, unable to work etc - because of how may drugs he took. It's so sad. He was such a good looking teenager and now he's lost loads of teeth, put on weight because of medication, lost hair etc :(

Saying that, I am prepared fr dealing with DS experimenting. Most of the people I know (people my age - 26 - and people much older) have tried weed once or twice. I just think most people know when to stop, when to not turn it into a habit that you spend all your money on and takes over your life :(

Cannabis is a sedative and people use it to 'switch off'... But there are very different - indeed opposite - ways of 'switching off'. There are busy happy people who smoke cannabis to unwind; and there are depressed confused people who smoke it to 'shut down' or block things off.

Many of the people who say cannabis is not a problem are in that first group; and the people who say and know that it can be a problem have watched someone they care about 'shut down'. If you are simply switching off with a spliff at the end of a busy day, you're unlikely to do yourself much harm. But if you are switching off with a spliff at the beginning of your day, of course you're unlikely to function well: no-one achieves much when they're sedated!

(By the way, when we stopped calling it 'dope' and started calling it 'weed', we lost a useful reminder that it's a sedative drug that makes people dopey).

Perhaps controversially, I'd tell parents who have busy, happy, achieving older teens not to worry too much: if they're smoking dope to 'unwind' not to 'switch off', and they're still running the rest of their lives, they'll probably be fine.

BUT... I see two particular problems with teenagers - especially younger teens - smoking it: firstly, many of them are by nature/age/stage rather depressed, moody and confused anyway, so if/when they try cannabis, it feels quite 'natural' to them. And they can see plenty of 'logical' reasons for having a spliff: if they're unhappy at school, or haven't got anything much to do, then why not have a spliff to 'help' switch off from the stuff they don't like? Then if they're doing it regularly, they're sedating themselves and, of course, much less likely to fulfil their potential.

The second problem is that teenagers' brains are still developing. With younger teens especially, who knows what their personalities and life-choices would naturally turn out to be? If they get the habit of sedating themselves so young, then even if they weren't depressed and confused beforehand, after a few months of smoking dope regularly they will be.

As I said to my son, "you're teaching your brain to switch off before it's learned to switch on" :(

And Bumbaclot, saying cannabis is 'not addictive' is just nonsense. It's not as addictive as nicotine or sugar, say, but it is every bit as addictive as alcohol. If you smoke it like a 'social drinker' - one spliff a night, say - then you'll be fine; but if you smoke it like a park bench drunk - a spliff before breakfast and several throughout the day - then you will develop a problematic addiction.

There are clear, physical, negative effects when a heavy daily cannabis smoker doesn't get a smoke, particularly if they can't manage the effects and withdrawal symptoms because they have 'real life' to live while they are coming down (and the effects are stronger with skunk and with resin/hash that has been cut with other sedatives like largactil). These are the physical effects heavy cannabis users are very likely to experience if they stop:

In the first 24 hours:
Cannabis sedates you, so you need to sleep. If you can't you get ratty.
It makes your blood sugar levels drop, so you need to eat. If you can't, you get very ratty, and can get diabetic-like hypoglycemic symptoms.
It makes your blood pressure drop, so you get all the symptoms of low blood pressure, especially if you can't go and lie down quietly: dizziness, sickness, headaches and anxiety.
It's a dis-inhibitor, so you are more likely to do stupid or dangerous things, and/or to lose your temper and/or be violent.

In 24-72 hrs:
Blood sugar stabilizes quite quickly if people eat, but blood pressure may be erratic, or normal blood pressure may feel like high blood pressure, because you have become used to lower levels. You may continue to feel dizzy, sick, headachey and anxious for a few days.
You will probably experience extreme tiredness, mood swings, erratic behaviour, and possibly anger and aggression.

After about 48-72 hrs:
Your body will start to get rid of toxins, which will take 2-3 days. If you have been smoking a nice mild naturally-grown plant form of cannabis, there won't be many toxins to get rid of. But if you smoke skunk or unpure hash, there could be a lot. You will literally excrete toxins. In most people that will just be a bit of a nasty sweat and perhaps a slightly dodgy tummy. But I have seen a heavy hash user literally sweat brown gunk out of the palms of his hands on days 2, 3 and 4 after giving it up.
Your sleep will be disturbed and erratic: you will wake when you want to sleep, and vice versa.
You will shake, sweat more and feel generally unwell - like you have flu.

And just like an alcoholic, you will remain more 'sensitive' and more likely to start using cannabis again...

The old myth that "cannabis isn't addictive" grew and flourished in the days when people were generally smoking their friend's big brother's home-grown weed - mild, natural stuff consumed at evenings and weekends only. Now that more people are using much, much stronger stuff that is artificially grown and 'chemically enhanced', and they are smoking it more often, side-effects and withdrawal effects are becoming more obvious. So please Bumbaclot, face facts, and stop repeating the myth.

Flow 4, those are exactly the symptoms my brother has when he hasn't had a joint.

I think your post is really good..... but...

......IME though you would be wrong to advise parents not to worry about the high functioning teens though. My friend who gassed himself in his car was exactly as you describe, busy full life, managed the drug use at the same time as being a high achiever, graduate, good job, travelled a lot, lovely family. But at the age of 23 he took his own life after 2 weeks of psychotic behaviour.

My friend who has worked in mental health for years says that when she started nursing her wards were full of middle aged men experiencing mid-life breakdowns....nowadays they are full of young adults with post skunk psychosis.

I know a number of people who have had drug induced psychosis, and others who have used weed to self-medicate.

It is a horrible drug. I hate it and I would be bothered. I have mh problems that include psychosis (not from weed/don't and WILL NEVER use weed, even sitting in a room full of weed smoke makes me hallucinate/feel bad) and any child of mine would have genetic predisposition, I wouldn't weed to be that trigger.

id be annoyed that they were smoking at all, but i wouldnt be more cross about the occasional joint than i would be about the occasional drink.
Its about context and also the age and also about how they dealt with it.]
I wouldnt allow them to doss about as a stoner, but an occasional one with friends if they were otherwise hardworking, wouldnt bother me

Oh and Bumbaclot, there are very recent studies on cannibis use causing Drug Induced Psychosis which is a different illness to Schizophrenia with similar symptoms. There are also studies showing that as an environmental factor it can trigger psychotic disorders, including Schizophrenia, or contribute to an already developed psychotic illness. That is not to say there are not studies on it's medical uses, there are but there are studies proving if you smoke cigarettes you are less likely to get dementia related illnesses, but we wouldn't discount the fact you are more likely to develop lung cancer if you do.

A lot of my friends smoke weed and it is sad to hear the same arguements churned out again and again. If it's not addictive, they should be able to give up tomorrow without a problem... but we're still waiting for that day. It would be useful if someone gave out the right information to teens about it. No, it's not the worst thing to do, but it's still got dangers.

Some really thoughtful and useful posts on this thread, thanks to everyone. I thought carefully about where and how to post it.
As I said in my OP my DSs have shown no inclination towards drugs but I am aware that DS1 in particular is entering a new phase of his life, he is going to start at a huge 6th form where he is bound to come across drugs in a bigger way and make choices.
On a lighter note , I want to get him to read this thread -should have name changed!

would like to add,when i had to see a clinical psychologist for anxiety,one of the first things she asked me was "have i ever taken any drugs ?"
(not smoked or drunk alcohol, just drugs.)
i was then told of the mental health issues that drugs cause-5/10/15 years down the line- our brain gets damaged.
they are mind altering substances so its a bit naive to think that they are
not going to cause future/immediate problems.

FWIW it was considered perfectly normal to smoke weed when I was at school (10 years ago) although smoking of any kind was banned at school of course, people still used to do it. In fact, I was (and still am) considered abnormal because I never did and to this day have never smoked-weed or otherwise!

How many of you with anecdotal reports of friends/relatives entering a psychosis have been shown scientific evidence that it was weed that induced it. Just because someone drinks tea everyday and enters a psychosis doesn't mean the tea caused it, correlation doesn't mean causation. But because it's illegal and carries such immense controversy, it's easy to put blame on something that you've most likely been lied to about during your life, mainly for political reasons.

flow4 - I'm not sure where you're getting your information from (I'd love to see some scientific sources for your claims), but weed isn't physically addictive. Anyone experiencing symptoms like those are either taking other drugs (including prescription) along with cannabis, or have some kind of personality disorder. Also, skunk contains the same chemicals found in all types of marijuana, skunk varieties of cannabis are sold in medical marijuana dispensaries and are no more or less dangerous than other strains of cannabis.

No one answered the question as to why doctors are prescribing it to patients if it's ruining so many lives? These patients are heavy users who generally smoke everyday. Do you know something doctors don't?

You have managed to infuriate me again Bumbaclot.

Ketamine is prescribed by doctors too, would you be telling the OP its ok for her son to have this for recreational use?

Yes actually I guess you would.

Your posts are full of holes. Stop stating your opinion as if it is fact.

Doctors prescribe morphine as well. In the case of an emergency or a serious life limiting illness addiction is not the primary consideration.

Doctors may prescribe it to patients because on balance the risk outweighs the benefit for that particular person and presumably prescribed cannabis is of a certain quality/purity. It doesn't make cannabis taking by the general population safe. Doctors prescribe morphine but that doesn't make it either safe or non-addictive.

And whilst this thread has mainly focussed on the health aspects what about the moral aspects/criminal nature of where the stuff comes from?

Bumbaclot I think everyone providing anecdotal evidence about weed induced psychosis mean the psychosis came about because the person was stoned at the time not necessarily because of a build up of usage over time (like your tea analogy)

It is a mind altering drug, just as alcohol is - people turn into very different versions of themselves when drunk or taking drugs. I'd like to see YOUR evidence that says otherwise

Doctors prescribe weed because it's safer with far less side effects than these opiate based drugs doctors prescribe. These opiate drugs are far more harmful to people and society, but the pharmaceutical companies make far too much money to stop selling them. Pharmaceutical companies lobby to keep weed illegal so they can continue selling physically addictive opiates for ailments that can be treated with weed. Weed cannot be patented unlike opiate drugs because anybody can grow it, meaning pharmaceutical companies cannot profit from it.

While I know this subject can produce strong feelings in people, I don't appreciate being called a fuckwit when I'm just presenting a different view point based on the science that I've researched. While people may experience paranoia when smoking weed, the amount of paranoia displayed by people when talking about weed is noteworthy. I don't think trying to reduce the paranoia and misconceptions surrounding cannabis is the wrong thing to do when the science backs it up.

Humans have been experimenting with drugs and their consciousness for eons, it's completely natural to want to experience different things, it's a part of what makes us human whether it be playing an instrument or smoking a joint (or both), we seem to be set up with the "purpose" of experiencing. Every human brain creates the most potent hallucinogenic drug in existence known as DMT (class A) that floods the brain before you die. It's also been linked to dreaming, as dreaming can be a very psychedelic experience. The fact we all have a class A drug naturally in our bodies is pretty interesting.

I do actually appreciate and understand a lot of what your saying (aside from the mentally addictive side to it) but you just can't compare doctors prescribing cannabis or it being used in a controlled manner by people weighing up the pros and cons and choosing which risks they'd rather take or avoid (the potential for cannabis to adversely affect the mind .v. A debilitating physical condition) and teenagers smoking weed during the day when they should be focused on work, quite often going into using it without any factual knowledge and more often than not using it as a way to escape normal life or bowing to peer pressure.

I do think there is a place to have the conversation about the apparent merits of taking cannabis medicinally - maybe even recreationally because I personally do think it's not that different having the occasional spliff or bottle of wine; both drugs can be abused or alter someone's personality regardless of how much or how often they take it.

But I don't want my teenager drinking a bottle of wine either!

Argh you're not your