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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

She can't be bothered to study but wants and expects success. How involved do you get?

83 replies

pebblestack · 08/05/2012 11:04

DD is 15. Exams this year. Mock orals next week.

Bank holiday. She said she'd work all morning because she wanted to spend the afternoon with friends. Except that she got up at 11, watched TV until nearly midday and got all shouty and stroppy when I asked when, exactly, she was going to fit in the work she had planned to do (so as to be free for a party she wants to go to at the weekend).

She was disappointed with recent test results and whinges for ages about how she thought she'd do better.

For some reason she can't see the link.

How involved do you get? We help her when required, but e.g. for history, "helping" her usually involves teaching her what she couldn't be bothered to listen to in class.

Keeping her in won't make her work, it'll just make her resentful. And I'd like her to start taking some responsibility for her own success (or failure...) It makes me want to weep - she is very capable, but just can't quite be bothered.

OP posts:
pebblestack · 11/05/2012 18:42

yes it does, solo! A bit, anyway.

She has a strong character and might succeed on the back of that without a sparkling set of qualifications. She certainly seems to think so. But the employment market is too tough to rely on a seat-of-the-pants strategy. She of course is resolutely optimistic about her prospects.

She has a mock oral on Tuesday, for which she has done less than half of the necessary work. Tomorrow she wants to to to a party, so Saturday afternoon will be spent honing her look and Sunday asleep or moaning she's tired, if I let her go.

My feeling is to let her mess up the mock...

OP posts:
Solopower · 11/05/2012 21:40

Yes, that works for some. It gives them such a shock when they flunk their mocks that they suddenly start working.

Not my son, sadly. He was like a pricked balloon, and seemed to give up.

After two years of doing hardly any homework, he has come back from his first exam feeling very low, and saying that he can't understand how all his friends seem to have piggy-backed over him, and people he beat hands down when he was 12 are now leaving him behind.

Soon he'll make the link. Surely.

gingeroots · 11/05/2012 21:50

My DS is like that solo , he recognises ( at 19 and on a Foundation Degree ) that he has not "fullfilled his potential " and that all his peers have done better than him .

It clearly upsets him but he seems unable to put the effort in to change it .

I love him but can't help him with this .

Maybe I'm making excuses but I think he just hates academic work and seems incapable of self organisation .

He's currently on a work placement ( city farm ) and working hard all and every day happily.

Mrsjay · 12/05/2012 09:50

you really have to let her learn imo I had a coaster she is bright but lazy coasted through school she did get good exam results but really could have done better to apply herself ,
we tried banning PC phone , none if which worked really

DD didnt do well in her HIGHERS (scottish Alevels) she got ok marks but by then she had gotten into the course she wanted , I dunno if you want to offer your DD an incentive to study I know a few parents offer up money for good results , DD is so bright but so unmotivated i really dont know where it went wrong tbh her sister is much more motivated and trys hard , I blamed her being bright so she didnt think she had to try .

FrumpyPumpy · 12/05/2012 10:34

This was me, but A levels. GCSEs got by ok through barely revising and thought could do the same a alevel. WRONG. Got, frankly, shit results. Resat buy still no motivation (or clue how to organise/ work) and because I'd never had to had no idea was doing it wrong. Got same crap grade for resat exam. BUT found a degree I wanted to do and got in with grades I had on experience and interview. Still touch and go 1st year, second a bit better, changed totally in placement year and missed a 1st by .5%. Doing ok now (and wouldn't have met dh or had my DCs otherwise so not too many regrets) but wish had applied self. I could have done anything, but didn't think I could.

Good luck.

ThatVikRinA22 · 12/05/2012 10:51

well mine is currently being a primadonna and just thrown her exam timetable at me when i dared to ask.

she says its none of my business when her exams are, then she stormed off. She is sodding impossible.

ragged · 12/05/2012 20:10

I did well in my GCSEs and A' levels without help from my parents

I read statements like that and wonder if we've all got rose-tinted spectacles. Maybe if we had time machines & go back & be flies on the wall, or asked our parents they'd say different about how much they helped, how much they bit their tongues, gently nudged & advised, watched in dismay, changed their schedules, cooked our meals or did our laundry even though they knew we should do it ourselves.

SpringHeeledJack · 12/05/2012 20:17

I know I got no help/gentle shoves from my parents- I panicked at the last minute (more or less at the stage your DD's at) and did well, but my parents, though interested, thought it wasn't really anything to do with them

that approach isn't working on ds, though. I am having to help him and bribe him (match funding what he raises towards a laptop he really wants)

I can't help but feel my parents' approach is the correct one- but, if I follow that and leave him to it, we'll just end up with a cycle of resits forever

Solopower · 13/05/2012 09:56

Different children need different tactics, though, don't they? Plus the whole educational climate is different nowadays - all sorts of factors determine which is the best approach for each child. Not least is sheer luck!

I hardly helped my first two, born in the late seventies. One was self-motivated and worked very hard, pitting herself against a clique of intelligent, highly-motivated girls all the way through school, had a series of really good teachers. Got good results. Went to uni, got good job, very happy.

The other hardly worked at all, had a lot of mediocre teachers (at the same school - local comp) who had to deal with a couple of challenging individuals in his class, and no friends who were at all interested in school. Got good results for GCSE but left school before A levels after not attending. Even so he went on to university, got a 2:2; spent a year sulking about how foolish he had been - and then got a brilliant job on a starting salary that was higher than mine.

Also there were several huge upheavals in their lives right at the time that my daughter was doing her A levels and my son was doing his GCSEs (deaths and births). But they still both got good results in those exams.

So when I look back I'm not sure whether my lack of input had anything to do with anything - although I still feel guilty for not having been fully focussed on them.

My last child (are you still reading, or have you gone off to make a cup of tea?), born in the mid-nineties, is having more problems than anyone else, despite being just as intelligent. He goes to a state school that regularly tops the league tables in our area, but he is very quiet in class, and no-one picked up on the difficulties he was having (high anxiety, mking it difficult to focus). I feel he has been very let down by some poor teaching and educational cuts which have meant fewer specialist teachers and several upheavals. He's the only one at home now, and I have been very much on his case, but sporadically, and ineffectually, as I have said above. He's not going to do anywhere near as well in his Highers as he could, and there's only a 50% chance of him passing, in my opinion. In his case, my attention does not seem to have made any difference.

But the hope I cling to is that this is not his last chance! As other posters have said, people often come into their own at uni (or afterwards, in the case of son No 1 above).

The problem is getting into uni, though isn't it...?

Bonsoir · 13/05/2012 09:59

I don't agree that you have to let them learn the hard way. I think some children work out what they need to do for themselves and others find it a lot harder to get organised and need their parents' guidance. You might want your child to take responsibility, but taking responsibility requires skills that need learning first.

gingeroots · 13/05/2012 10:16

Absolutely agree Bonsoir ,good post .

Bonsoir · 13/05/2012 10:22

I'm a great believer in laying down the foundations for good study habits early on. I am the lucky beneficiary of the good habits my DP instilled in the DSSs long before I was on the scene, and the DSSs' attitude provides an excellent role model for DD (7). But I still need to manage her homework. We have got into a habit of her doing her homework after breakfast on Sunday, when DP and the DSSs are at the gym and she and I are rested. She knows she cannot do her own thing until homework is done and I keep the house quiet and am available for spelling tests etc.

gingeroots · 13/05/2012 10:35

I can so see the sense in that .
So simple but so effective - I imagine as it was not my approach .

I was an idiot and was too influenced by the trauma of my own childhood study habits ,which were really OCD and carried on into working life with me taking days of annual leave so that I could take work home and really get stuck in for 18 hour marathon sessions with no interruptions .

But guess what ,I hadn't given birth to a mini me but a lazy ,unmotivated ,gentle unconfident boy who needed lots of coaching ,support and strict routines .
He certainely didn't need to be held back from working himself into the ground ,just the opposite .

I was too lax with him at primary school and then came down like a ton of bricks at secondary . And I think that only served to drive him to subterfuge - lying about work and pretence re studying .

Oh well ,hindsight !

Solopower · 13/05/2012 10:54

Not everyone is the perfect parent, Gingeroots!

Most of us are good enough, though, and all of us are constantly trying to be better ...

Follyfoot · 13/05/2012 11:00

Probably going against many of the opinions here but other than helping them organise themselves and maybe offering bribes (I didnt do that by the way) I'm not sure how much more you can do for an awful lot of teenagers. Even if you locked them in their bedrooms with 50 books and a laptop, if they dont want to do it, they wont. And when they get to Uni, they have to live by their own efforts (or lack of) entirely. My DD did as little studying as she could get away with. She could probably have done better in her A Levels if she had worked a bit harder, but it was her choice not to and she would have had to come up with a plan B if she had failed to get into her desired Uni on the back of those results.

SpringHeeledJack · 13/05/2012 11:02

Ginger the primary homework thing is hard- when I was little, it was more or less non existent. When it came to secondary transfer, some of us were quite excited about getting homework- we thought it was vair Mallory Towers

Grin

because of this I did not insist that ds did his h/w in primary school, and did insist at secondary. My strategy (hah!) has failed dismally- ds is as lazy as arseholes

Now I'm thinking- if I'd stressed the importance of h/w in primary, it might have sent a clearer message, and ds might have been diligent and hard working by now Hmm

it really goes against my v strong feeling, tho, that primary kids ought not to have any homework at all. Don't know what line to take with dds, who are younger

it's a minefield, really, isn't it

Solopower · 13/05/2012 11:06

Agree, SpringHeeledJack. I think HW is very unfair, especially at primary school. They should lengthen the school day, get sixth formers or uni students to supervise, and make 11 to 14-year olds do it at school.

Bonsoir · 13/05/2012 11:09

I strongly disagree. When DCs get small amounts of HW early on that require intense parental input, they get into the habit of having homework. And then, slowly, parental input diminishes by design and DCs get into habit of working on their own by age 7/8. The habit is set up for life, albeit with parents keeping an eye on what is going on and being on call to answer questions when DCs get stuck (mostly on tiny things IME).

HermioneE · 13/05/2012 11:24

OP - do your DD's teachers have any suggestions?

Solopower · 13/05/2012 11:28

I agree, Bonsoir, that's how it should work. But there are so many families where it doesn't work like that, it makes things even more unequal.

ragged · 13/05/2012 11:46

When DCs get small amounts of HW early on ...parental input diminishes by design and DCs get into habit of working on their own by age 7/8

I humbly submit that Bonsoir has a single well-behaved girl it depends on the child, too.
What Bonsoir says applies for my Dd (although I don't know what age, maybe more like 9 than 8). I have/had nearly no input to her hw.

Meanwhile, DS1 (my eldest) lied, pretended not to have hw at all. Even when he said he had it he did a bare pants minimum of it. All sorts of incentive & punishment schemes & he still hid it, did the bare minimum, had no respect for it, "Why should I have to do homework if I've worked hard all day at school already?" he'd protest (& he was right).

DS2 is nearly 8yo & does hw only after I shut him off from rest of house/siblings, & tends to tantrum for at least an hour. He needs it though, for confidence boosting (sigh).

wrt GCSEs: I predict
DD: will organise herself completely but have mega-hysterical teary melt downs about the stress (we already get moments of this, & she's only y5)

DS1: will organise himself adequately, grumpy to live with; he insists that he fully does see the value of HW for GCSEs & the value of high GCSE marks, just not yet.

DS2: will organise himself for some of it, will shrug off the rest.

Solopower · 13/05/2012 11:51

Has anyone else got the 'Expert GCSE Maths tutors' advert on their screen? Curious how that popped up.

But what about it? Is extra tuition part of the answer?

Bonsoir · 13/05/2012 11:59

ragged - as I said, I followed the example that my DP used with the DSSs. I don't think the number of DCs has much to do with it - it's the discipline that needs instilling in a whole family. And little ones need to learn to shut up and keep out of the way (as my DD did) when older ones are doing their HW, right from the start.

bigTillyMint · 13/05/2012 12:01

Bonsoir, we have been trying your theory - it is working well for DD (Y8) so far, but it remains to be seen whether it works for DS when he starts secondary in September!

pebblestack · 13/05/2012 12:03

Hermione, her teachers have run out of suggestions. They have offered plenty of revision advice to the whole year and do occasional after-school workshops for pupils who are struggling with specific things which DD has attended.

I totally agree that she needs a fixed h/w & revision routine at home. But how do you enforce it? She can't work in the kitchen/dining room as we have younger DC who disturb her. In her bedroom she is too easily distracted by other stuff.

At primary school she was peachy keen and hard-working. Homework not a problem. Then she hit adolescence and became too cool for school overnight...

OP posts: