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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

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Original poster

Can't believe I'm doing this; finding a boot camp for niece :(

24 replies

ZebraInCA · 06/01/2006 17:27

NOT sure why I'm posting, but it's so depressing.
SIL is poorly-medicated bipolar & her DD2 is a bully, very intelligent but socially immature and somewhere high onthe oppositional defiant disorder spectrum (she's just 15yo).

Having been kicked out of 2 residential treatment programmes in Rocky Mountain States(she absolutely refuses to cooperate with any of the rules, I'm sure in a stubborn strategy to convince her mother to let her come back to California) we are trying to find a third school/programme that will take & keep her. Else she'll persuade her mom to let her come home to California & probably she'll run away & run wild at the first opportunity.

SIL now tells me that DN has been beating her (SIL) up.

I have no idea if I can help at all...SIGH!!

OP posts:

SoupDragon · 06/01/2006 19:07

Can't add anything helpful but didn't want your thread to go un noticed.

Original poster

ZebraInCA · 06/01/2006 23:21

Thanks soupy.
SIL has been referred to Tranquility Bay in Jamaica , of all places (see critique here ).
She is a really messed up teenager, though.

OP posts:

WhoopsADaisy · 06/01/2006 23:24

It sounds to me as though your SIl as hard as it must be, really needs to be strong and refuse to collect her if she really wants the program to work.It sounds harsh and I'm not at the same point with my child, so I could be totally wrong.

Janh · 06/01/2006 23:24

Where was the place they did a TV programme about? Out in the wilds of the US somewhere?

emily05 · 06/01/2006 23:31

I saw a tv show about that place in Tanquility Bay and the mistreatment of the children there. here is a link about the show I saw here

typed it into yahoo and found

this old article

edam · 06/01/2006 23:37

Is your niece angry with your SIL because your SIL's behaviour is not the sort of mothering she want or needs? I'm sure the situation must be very distressing, but teenagers are naturally destructive enough... add a bipolar mother... don't have any answers but just feel desperately sorry for all of you. Can you find a programme that will help your niece find ways of dealing with her mother's illness?

Aloha · 06/01/2006 23:38

OMG - no, not some brutal prison for children which is beyond the law. I think that's dreadful. What about proper therapy? Frankly if her mother has schizophrenia that is poorly medicated I'm not surprised your neice is suffering. I don't think putting her in some kind of prison is a good idea at all. I think those places are evil tbh.

soapbox · 06/01/2006 23:58

I've just read a lot of the posts on the website against TB. I really can't believe that such an institution is allowed to exist in this day and age and that US parents would send their children away to be treated in such a way.

I really am totally shocked.

It reminded me of the book and film Sleepers.

Really I don't think this would be a good place for your niece to go

Avalon · 07/01/2006 00:23

That place is truly horrifying. It seems to just break kids' spirits.

Original poster

ZebraInCA · 07/01/2006 01:37

Well, DN is refusing to cooperate at all where she is (place called Cross Creek Manor ). I reckon that she is being willfully horrible/uncooperative in the hope it will get her out of there (she's been in some kind of residential programme for almost 2 months). She's one stubborn kid... but she may have more complex psychological problems. A lot of parents are happy with the results from Tranquility Bay. It's easy for us to think it's terrible for destroying their spirits... but what if the alternative is a kid who will run away and live on the streets otherwise, bullying her mother (including physical threats) for money or anything else she wants?

OP posts:

harpsichordcarrier · 07/01/2006 01:58

i can't imagine how this could resolve the issues.
imho i think it is unlikely that your niece would ever forgive her family for doling out such brutal treatment.
the whole thing makes me feel quite despairing and actually physically ill. sorry, it's late and I am inclined to tell you how I feel.
[my ex-boss (in the US) sent his dd to one of these places for the appalling crimes of hanging out with boys and smoking dope. she was 15. three years later and she has broken all contact with her family. and I for one do not blame her for that.]

Avalon · 07/01/2006 02:24

I can only imagine bad things coming from sending a teen to TB. If I'd been sent there as a teen, I would never have spoken to my parents again.
It sounds like a prison and some of the techniques are highly questionable, imo.

Cross Creek doesn't look a whole lot better, sorry.

Doesn't the US do any kind of local authority care?

I appreciate your sil is having a very hard time, but I'd like to think there is a more humane answer out there somewhere.

Blandmum · 07/01/2006 08:25

redcliff asent

Was on TV in the first Series of Brat Camp. The program is very tough , but the kids seem to be treated with respect, there is a medical/ psychological programme. They use the 'broken rrecord' technique a lot and the kids do seem to learn self respect and self control. It is based on native american ideas.

Aloha · 07/01/2006 16:33

I don't just think it's terrible for 'breaking their spirits' - I think it's a grotesque abuse of human rights. Guantanamo bay for children. Disgusting and immoral. And even more so for a child who has clearly suffered from inadequate and damaging parenting, even if that is as a result of the parent's illness. I think f*ing up your child's life, then throwing them into some brutal prison out of the jurisdiction of the law is simply indefensible. Sorry.
We don't treat murderers like this.

Blandmum · 07/01/2006 16:44

I think that there can be a place for perperly regulated centres to help very dysfunctional teengers though Aloha. Sometimes you have to get them away from an environment that is damaging them.....away from peers who abuse drugs, are invoved in crime and violence etc.

I see too many kids who's behavious is so far beyond their parents control that they spiral into ever worse behaviour. And often it is because of poor parenting, but not always. I have had parent sobbing with despair over what to do with children who are inveoved with drugs and prostiution, for example.

CarolinaMoon · 07/01/2006 16:50

sorry for being a bit thick here, but why is it not possible for your SIL to be properly medicated?

My mum has suffered with manic depression over the years, thankfully with relatively mild symptoms, and I found that pretty hard to deal with as a teen (I didn't beat her up though ) - I would imagine that helping the mum would go a long way towards helping her daughter iykwim.

Original poster

ZebraInCA · 07/01/2006 17:45

But what's the alternative, Aloha? I don't know.

As for local authority care...US states actually run their own boot camps (publicly funded, in a military mode) for juveniles who have committed crimes. Any other form of LA care for Niece would probably allow her to run away, live on the streets, turn up at her mother's begging and threatening for money. Niece is not into drugs or sex to our knowledge; she also doesn't care at all for peer pressure, clothes or "looking good". She was identified as G+T by 6yo (very high IQ) but is emotionally immature & bullies others before they can hurt here. Because of G+T label she was sent to same primary school I was; where she was emotionally bullied but it was never dealt with; US schools don't recognise bullying unless the bruises are visible. Since primary school she has consistently passed all in-class tests (usually top marks) but flunked classes because she refuses to do any homework.

Guess I'm writing all that just to get my brain around the situation. It is hellish. Nothing I can truly do to help. I don't know what help SIL needs to get better, either; I think her problems are bigger than being "just" bipolar. Niece has a sister who is also going thru an awful patch, I don't seem to be able to help either niece.

OP posts:

Blandmum · 07/01/2006 17:50

Zebra, have you had a look at the redcliff stuff?

It looks as if it could be helpful, but is very expensive £15,000 a month I think! They do work very hard with the children , in a very calm and firm way. Quite useful in the treatment of ODD I think.

Original poster

ZebraInCA · 07/01/2006 18:00

It does look good mb.
SIL lacks Internet access & is struggling to make any decisions, I have 3 small children of my own todeal with (should be playing with them right now), so hard for me to research for SIL. Iliked Sunhawk Academy , too ... mostly because they specifically mention ODD.

SIL lives on benefits but Niece has a whopping huge trust left for her by other grandmother which will pay the bill (thank god).

OP posts:

soapbox · 07/01/2006 23:12

Zebra - have you read the posts by the children who went there - some of them now adults with their own kids?

We're talking severe physical and mental abuse. At the severest end of what would be considered abnormal under the torture definitions of the UN!

I think the vast majority of the children believe that they would have been better of DEAD than endured what they did in that place.

How any parent could speak highly of such a place is totally beyond me. It makes me feel physically sick at the thought of putting children who have had a bad start in life (your niece didn;t ask to have a mother with severe mental illness - and where is her father)!

I think there must be better alternatives than this. Sleeping on the streets until she is 18 would be a dream by comparison IMO!

Aloha · 07/01/2006 23:18

This girl has been bullied, emotionally abused and given inadequate parenting by a mentally ill mother (where is her father indeed!) and the solution is to send her to a place to be further bullied and emotionally abused? Words honestly fail me here.
It's no good damaging your child like this and then giving her to a bunch of sadists to be finished off. Why not sell her as a sex slave to a bunch of Eastern European mafia gangs? That would probably keep her under control too. I'm horrified. Zebra - this doesn't sound like you at all. If she's bullying to prevent others hurting her, how about some therapy and an assessment for a problem such as Aspergers - though I suspect that the biggest problem is her awful life and upbringing. She is only 15. A child! and the idea of using her own money - left to her by her grandmother - in order to torture her just adds insult to injury IMO.

Original poster

ZebraInCA · 08/01/2006 04:49

The father is also mentally ill (institutionalised).
The child has been in therapy all her life; fat lot of good it's done her.

OP posts:

SueW · 08/01/2006 11:20

I find these situations very, very sad where children don't have access to a secure and loving family home. In the Brit boot camp programme, I was horrified by the parents who were doing some fabby job in the Far East and had put their daughter into a series of boarding schools beofre boot camp. Even boot camp didn't work and I thought it was hardly surprising - they had had their child and basically abandoned her to a series of institutions for which they were prepared to pay handsomely, AFAICS.

I hope your niece can find someone who can be a loving role model and mentor for her Zebra.

mszebra · 08/02/2006 21:20

Update: DN was moved to Redcliffe Ascent last weekend. It was a toss-up for her mom between that and somewhere else with a full hospital and every possible psychiatric service on site. Given both parents have history of severe mental illness maybe that's psychiatry is what DN needs... but, I hope Redcliffe works instead.

Thanks very much to martianbishop for telling me about Redcliffe.

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