Size 6 trousers with 28.5 waist?

[ViolaCello]

Is this possible? It's at Me&Em.
I am after some cords and the fit guide says this, and yet the model wears the UK8.
Not sure how, since I imagine it would drown her.

Am I missing something, or are most brands just playing with the fairies at this point?

@madeinmanc This is all I want. For the love of God just put the waist, hip and leg measurement and I'll pick my own size.

So who is Me&Em's target customer?
Dare I suggest the middle aged and middle class (Hi Reggie Perrin!)...one who shops with a subtle nod to trends whilst opting for quality over quantity (this concept appears to have completely lost it's meaning in a world of growing, excessive consumption).

I value ethical and environmental practices over size-flattery, which most likely tallies with their intended market's general mindset. There's a disconnect somewhere isn't there? And the more I explore this topic the more disagreeable it becomes - I had mentioned in my email to the sales dept that I didn't want to purchase 3 pairs with a view to returning them, that this wasn't a sustainable way to shop. It seemed to go right over their heads.

In reality these brands are essentially liars, their business model is excessive and only ever looks at the bottom line. Vanity sizing, if this is what it is, should have no traction in an environmentally progressive system, of which women's clothing HAS to be the absolute antithesis, surely?

I would imagine most of us who are likely to shop there would be far happier with logical measurements which reduced the need for endless returns than gaslighting ourselves into thinking we were 3 sizes smaller. Surely we all have either scales or mirrors at home?
Is this the reason for the lumpy elastic waistband trend?
Or are they dressing that up as environmentally friendly too?
It's become predictable "we gave this an unsightly elastic waistband so that you can wear it as your body changes" - er no! You would rather we consumed endless mountains of stuff in our sleep and never stopped.

And you only have to look at the customer reviews at brands like Poetry (who show intricate garment measurements) to see that even when they DO offer this information the reality of the clothes are hit or miss. It's pathetic.

So who is Me&Em's target customer?

I don't know, and chances are they don't either!

But the response is largely what I expected. An absolute refusal to believe that this phenomenon, real as it is, isn't being caused by a conspiracy to lie to plus size women. And also (I wasn't going to mention it) the really rather inexplicable consumer expectation that they should be able to find something that fits them perfectly, off the rack, in the mass produced clothing store of their choice, in a size they approve of.

I value ethical and environmental practices over size-flattery

There's no size flattery going on, so it's a bit of a moot point. However, you raise something else that's significant. When asked, everyone says that they'd rather buy less and spend more per piece on quality and ethics and longevity of the garment. Actual sales, however, do not bear this out and personally I think a huge amount of it is down to the explosion in cheap fast fashion. Even if you don't buy from such places (and chances are you do but don't realise it - it's more ubiquitous than you might think), they are driving prices down and down until the disparity between their prices and the real cost of responsibly sourced, ethically produced, high quality garments to last years and years becomes so stark that people are scared of it.

Price has become the point of competition, far more than any of us want to admit, and that's another reason why everything is going to pot. Overall, consumers are valuing cheap clothes over good clothes, no matter what they say, and the result is the absolute shitstorm of sizing and quality that we all know about by now.

@NonPlayerCharacter Excellent comment, thank you!

I noticed a sizing shuffle at Toast recently, they have added XXS to their range. Now customers are advised to recheck their measurements to tally with the new system.
Quite a few user reviews complained that larger women were being 'phased out', that their new sizing model may express a preference for younger, slimmer consumers. Some even complained that they were worried they'd have to stop shopping with Toast if smaller sizes were introduced!

I personally think Toast responded to an age old issue with their clothing, that shorter, petite customers were left out.

I think this at least illustrates that some brands have been targeted at larger women due to their age alone. A presumption that doesn't always hold water!
And those women become fiercely loyal to the brand. There is obviously still a great deal of 'size sensitivity' with women's clothing and self perception, and the brands won't ignore that.

(European sizes below)
Surely vanity sizing is when the company says a size 16 is a size 90 cm waist (by their own provided size chart), but in reality the waist measures 95 cm, so the customer can flatter themselves that they fit into the smaller size. If the size chart was truthful then the number on the clothes wouldn't matter as much.

Other than that size is a number. It is surprising that the size chart that is officially still standard wasn't just expanded upwards instead when the customers got larger and companies started selling more of larger sizes. No real need to change the size of a size 34, they should just make more size 50 (of the old, standard sizing system).

I’d just like consistency. I’m consistently a 26/27 jeans buyer. I know which brands I’m a 26 and which I’m a 27, usually.
If I buy a pair of trousers 4 months ago in an 8 why am I now a 6? I’ve not gone down a dress size and I’m trying to buy from a smaller better quality business.
Or say- these trousers size down/ up. If it’s inconsistent across your range tell us. Then you’ll save money processing returns.

I don’t care about the number- just make it easy for me.

I did notice that when sizes are added to a clothing line they tend to go lower rather than higher. This would appear to suggest vanity sizing, but who knows at this point!

It's more likely to be a combination of confusion (so many outlets sell a variety of lines from different makers and they're not all in line with each other on sizing) with pisspoor standards and bad quality auditing than a co-ordinated effort to measure out all garments 5cm larger than the label says. If they could manage to do that, they could get the sizing accurate, especially when it's so easy to prove wrong!

As before, the driving point is now price and that's what they're competing on. Even the ones who aren't directly competing with Shein etc will be aware of how they compare with the price point. It's making people lose sight more and more of what good quality, long lasting, ethically made clothing really costs, and then being too horrified to pay it when they find out. It really would mean, for most people, wearing the same stuff to the office and the pub a lot.

I know there's a COL crisis and so on and I'm not judging, but this has been happening for many years now.

I bought two dresses both ASOS brand
One is a 24, one a size 14
They both fit and are both stretchy jersey type
I'm a size 16...

It's about normalising to the mean. For various boring and complicated reasons, it does make more sense to reconfigure around your new median than to keep going off into infinite numbers until size 6-10 actually fail to exist any longer.

As before, it isn't only clothing companies doing it, but we notice it more with them...partly because we buy clothes more often than we but furniture and partly because clothes are generally very personal to people.

I think they have put the US sizing by mistake.

I would be a size 8 by that chart, normally size 12 UK so I think it's US sizes.

Interesting that Toast have started doing XXS. I’m short and petite and have always swerved Toast as I look like I’m dressing up in my mum’s (or maybe gran’s) clothes. Same with Poetry. Lovely stuff shame it all swamps me. Hush was the same but now have a size 4/XXS - although tried on a size 4 jacket today and it still fell off me.

I’m wondering if the introduction of small sizes - if they are genuinely smaller - is partly due to the oversized trend ? people want clothes that actually vaguely fit so are sizing down - and that is pushing demand for smaller sizes? That and trying to attract the under 25 demographic I guess.

Yes, and centimetres is spelt the US way, someone has uploaded the wrong chart

The sizing is definitely weird on that website as there is a 5'10" model wearing a pair of trousers with a supposedly 29.1" inside leg, I am 5'10" without particularly long legs but need a 32" at least,

The lady at Me%Em confirmed last night that it was UK sizing.
She advised me to buy my usual size.
When I asked whether this should swamp me she said the measurements reflected the waistband being lower due to mid rise.
Odd, as the pair on the model sure look high rise to me.

The chart i posted is not US.

high rise

Ha, just remembered I once emailed Joules about a pair of trousers listed as mid rise when they looked high rise on the models.
They replied telling me they could not disclose the rise or measurements. So they lost a customer.

Joules are rancid anyway, their ethics score is in the gutter.

Couldn't disclose rise or measurements? My god, why do they not want to sell clothes?

Absolutely agree @NonPlayerCharacter that cost and a race to the bottom is to blame as well, I was more thinking of what "vanity sizing" means, and I've always understood it to mean what I put. Even men's clothes are succumbing to it now I believe, a sz 34" waist might be 36". 😉

I also would like consistency in size charts, I agree with all this!

Maybe they thought 'can't disclose' sounded somehow posher than 'don't know! ! 😂

It sounds very much a case of 'computer says...'

And likely a massive bulldog clip on the back to stop them falling down.

Yes Never! Hate it when they do that on shop mannequins but you’re right I bet they do it on website models too.

True, I rarely trust model photo's when it comes to sizing now.

I was reading a discussion in the guardian lifestyle section about fast fashion recently and a lot of men were complaining about vanity sizing.

It's not vanity sizing. But what were they complaining about? Waist measurements in men's clothing being inaccurate?