where have bust darts gone?

[TotalOverhaul]

Soon about to go into a work Zoom meeting and noticed my shirt was gaping a bit at the bust. When i tugged at it I realised there was loads of spare fabric, so it wasn't because it was too tight. Then looked and saw no bust dart. the other day I put on and took off yet again a Zara shirt I love and bought earlier this summer thinking I'd wear it all the time. Every time I wear it, it looks shapeless. Checked - no bust darts. So shirts simply don't sit properly across the chest of any woman with more than B cup.

These are not boyfriend style shirts - they are delicate, blouse like designs. So why have they stopped fitting them to women's bodies? Has anyone else noticed this trend?

Thank you. I'll take a look. I love the shirt I bought bit it hangs so badly - makes me look about two stone heavier than I am.

This is why I love the 2 denim jackets I have from Bravissimo - for people with boobs.

I feel that even relatively expensive clothes have given up on cutting for a woman’s body. Toast for instance, dresses are lovely but often no darts and terrible if you have a larger cup size, yet lovely fabric and not cheap.

I put my own darts in and sometimes use a discreetly stitched hook and eye.
Someone needs to tell clothes designers that not all of us are androgynous and flat chested. 😤

I have a denim jacket from Bravissimo and its bloody amazing. Size 12 Curvy and has darts and amazing panelling down the front and back - I think its called princess seams. So flattering if you go in and out.

It cant just be cost though, as men's tailored shirts are still cheap (unless you buy the expensive ones). It must be the oversized trend and fashion generally.

Bravissimo stopping their clothing line and the increase in "flat" fronted clothing are the banes of my life. My work shirts are faded and bobbly but I cannot gerlt replacements that fit my 34H bust without swamping the rest of me.

Clothes manufacturers are adapting for the fact that a large % of women are overweight or very overweight, and more apple than hourglass.

Most normal tops now, I could have worn at 7 months pregnant. I add a lot of darts myself, vertical from just below the breastline, into the waist and out again, just so things hang better and are less sack-like.

That doesn't account for the complete failure to add any form of bust shaping. I'm a size 18 and I still need bust shaping.

My broad(ish) shoulders really require raglan sleeves in any jumper I wear. Those dropped sleeves are a no-no for me.

Decades ago, when big shoulders were a thing, I had to take shoulder-pads out of loads of tops or I'd have looked even more stupid.

Tip from DD is to buy men's t-shirts from supermarkets - if you pick the right size they fit a woman's shape OK and are actually long enough. I've got one men's t-shirt and it fits fine, and looks better than most women's t-shirts I've seen recently. And in case you were wondering neither me nor DD have small busts

It's absolutely a cost and manufacturing issue and nothing to do with heavier women (except very slightly as it means easier pattern grading for larger sizes). By the way, I have a friend who is plus sized and has had a double mastectomy and nothing fits her either. Plus just makes a default assumption of bust size -- if you are flat chested you are also out of luck.

It's about fast fashion and lowering labour costs as much as possible. Every minute counts, and the less skill required by the sewist, the cheaper they can hire. China is too expensive for garment manufacturing now. They hire unskilled people and don't train them. Cutting and sewing a bust dart or waist shaping or a proper sleeve cap requires skill. Boxy and shapeless is in style because it's easier to make. People also don't want to spend money getting things adjusted by a tailor, not that it would be worth it with the quality of much of what's being sold; it doesn't even make it long enough to wind up at the charity shop.

You see this with a lot of popular knitting patterns too: Everything is seamless and has minimal shaping because the patterns are easier to design and grade for self taught pattern designers. They rely on basic mathematical formulas to grade patterns for size. Modern knitters consider traditional seamed sweaters to be "too difficult".

Some do, some don't.

Same place as buttons. Loads of cardigans are open front and buttonless.

Seems like retailers want to make rain or increase their profit margin.

Men’s clothes don’t have this. Still have the same details as always.

I buy men's shirts all the time! Not supermarket - there's manufacturers nearby that have factory sales. The larger size men's shirts fit reasonably well - even arm length if I turn over the cuff. Bonus point, they cover the butt as well.

I also get fed up with this.

My waist is 31 inches, my bust and hips are 43 inches.

Yes, I'm overweight, but I don't need any extra help to look more overweight than I already am.

I usually have a 2 or 3 size difference between the size I need to buy for my waist and the size for my bust.

Maybe I ought to get more into altering my own clothes again, but honestly I wish I didn't have to.

@NotMeNoNo i 100% agree with you

Yes it’s awful op! I have a large bust and anything over-sized or boxy looks awful. I know it’s the fashion atm but tbh I’ve lived long enough to know that “fashionable ” often = what is cheapest to manufacture. You see it with furniture and interior design trends too.

What I tend to do now is not really wear as many shirts and look out instead for ribbed cotton and jersey long sleeved polo shirts instead with a deep v neck. The ribbing acts as a natural “shaper” which follows the in/out curves of your figure. Added bonus = no ironing! 😃

Try charity shops, vintage shops etc

I’ve got a couple of loosely darted cotton shirts that also have a bit of Lycra in them. They work better, but I’ve mainly gone across to cotton jersey for every day wear.

Same here - I'm going to have to take up dressmaking, aren't I? How did you lot learn? Night classes?

Really interesting reading this thread! I can't get shirts that fit, pretty much given up trying at this point but I now recall old work shirts that had long seems running vertically down from the bust and small horizontal ones across the bust, I assume these are the magical darts you are taking about?!

Where did you all learn to dressmake/alter clothes? I've never sat infront of a sewing machine and wouldn't know where to start, certainly wasn't shown at school (I'm 43).

I really dislike the boxy trend, I’m a 34G and it just makes me look like an enormous rectangle if things hang straight down from the bust.

For those if you discussing sewing/altering your own - come on over to the stitch and bitch Thread . We’re a very friendly and encouraging group, lots of different ability levels and styles.
For beginner sewists I’d recommend Waves and Wild or Tilly and the Buttons patterns for modern styles. Cashmerette patterns are very well rated for making patterns for curvier people. I also like Closet Core and Helen’s Closet.
A lot of the trendier pattern companies are following the high street trends and there’s a lot of boxy stuff about, but the traditional pattern companies like Simplicity and New Look have a huge variety of styles available, you just have to be good at looking past some terrible styling choices on the pattern envelope!

@DogDaysNeverEnd i had some brief lessons in school (we made a tote bag) and I was terrified of the machine, it seemed to go so fast. I got interested in the idea of making my own clothes after I left home, my grandma lent me a machine, and I taught myself using blogs and tutorials online. That was about 12 years ago, and now I can make all sorts of things.
Learning to use a sewing machine is straightforward, fitting patterns to your body can be more difficult but there are a lot of resources online, plus books and courses you can do in person and online.

It is a skill though - it takes time to learn and improve. It’s part of the learning curve to have a few duds to start with as you learn to choose appropriate materials for your pattern and choose appropriate patterns for your body and skill level.

altering things you have already is much quicker and easier.

I make my own or alter shop bought where necessary to make them sit properly on my bust and waist. It can sometimes be a bit daunting when half the garment needs to be unpicked to alter it properly.

I'm 67 so learned the basics at school - not as much as I could have done because I didn't pay attention but it meant I could follow pattern instructions etc.

If you check out YouTube there are lots of free videos on seeing, although some are shite (presenters who mumble, don't show you what they're doing etc).

There are also loads of books on dressmaking - some assume a basic knowledge so look for one for complete beginners with good illustrations.

It might help to pay for some classes too because some written instructions can be hard to follow without a bit of guidance.

There are also paid-for online sewing classes where you get better attention and instructions than from the free ones.

And then you have to practise! It doesn't come easily to me - I'm impatient and make loads of mistakes but when it all comes together it's immensely satisfying.

There's a dressmaking thread on this board at the moment with lots of chat and tops.