Ageism Armageddon: but not as you might expect

[mm47]

I’ve absolutely had enough of MN posters’ so-called anti ageism. What about accepting we are all getting older, rather than vicious denial? If people genuinely felt at ease with getting older- possibly even grateful because - what is the alternative? - they could hear when someone just wanted some advice.

Surely an anti ageist attitude means to feel positive about age and ageing whilst not denying but accepting that growing older has challenges (in style and elsewhere). Style In anything has to do with facing the truth and finding the best outcome.

I’ve just read a thread where - to paraphrase - somebody aged 56 described herself as feeling like she dressed like a granny and asking for style advice. She was being honest about how she felt. But actually most of the thread was - instead of people offering positive, helpful and supportive advice - a complete rugger scrum of posters who wanted to give this poor woman a hard time and say age is irrelevant and I am this age (older than the OP) and I do this etcetc. Poor woman, I doubt she was expecting such vitriol, she just wanted an update on her uniform!

I’m 60. I’m not young. I kid myself I’m middle aged but I don’t want to live until I’m 120 so in other words… I’m getting on. There is nothing wrong with getting older but I enjoy getting dressed and trying to look good and included in this is a desire to show that I am aware of contemporary taste. I will pick and choose what suits me.

if it weren’t for MN rugger scrums I would definitely describe a lot of my style screw-ups (of which there are many!) as frumpy or grannyish or mutton dressed as lamb. The thing is, I might be 60 but granny (whoever she is in the style context) is always at least 70 years older than me….

i can’t be alone in thinking that even if I were a grandmother, grannyish doesn’t apply to me, it’s a description for a granny who existed in the 1950s.

Runs for the Anderson shelter….

The "both sides" defense of the VERY occasional, and only OF VERY LATE, tiny, tiny bit of ageism men "suffer" is appalling, frankly.

More women grasping at crumbs to support the patriarchy - we're fucking REGRESSING.

PRO-TIP: trying to be "not like other girls" won't save you for a MINUTE.

Are movies/tv STILL fucking chock full of men 2x the age of the women they are involved with? YES.

Is real life still full of the same? YES.

Do women still GENERALLY get paid less, and judged far more harshly about their appearance in the workplace? YES.

Is derogatory language about women aging, developed in a patriarchy, and MEANT to be reductive and discriminatory, also bad to perpetuate, even if you don't bother to understand the origin, and don't feel personally affected by it?

ALSO FUCKING YES.

I think frumpy is great word. Everybody knows what it means. And, sometimes frumpy is associated with age… When I was younger, although not always nailing it on the style front (you could even say I felt frumpy at times) at least I wasn’t troubled by the oldness / fatness / hot messiness that I am now. Frumpy is a very real thing for me now. I don’t fucking like it, but here it is, at the age of 47…

Completely and totally irrelevant I know, so sorry in advance, but ‘hot mess’ is one of those phrases that seems to have changed usage over the years. Since the original meaning as I understand it still comes first to my mind it looks incongruous in the context Gowlett used it.
I believe ‘hot mess’ was originally used to refer to the sweaty, tousled glow of an attractive woman after sex. ‘Hot’ in the American sense of attractive and mess as in hair and makeup all messed up.

This isn't a Style and Beauty point either so scroll on if you prefer, but I note without comment that the Department of Health recently launched a 'landmark survey' on 'women’s menstrual health, contraception, pregnancy planning and menopause' (my italics) but restricted it to women age 16-55:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/landmark-survey-seeks-womens-views-on-reproductive-health

Responses will be used to shape future policy.

Mariella Frostup, journalist, age 60, largely confined to radio these days although yet to be exiled to Countryfile, is among those taking it up.

That's beyond ridiculous.

I use frumpy a lot - mainly because to me, frumpy conjures an image of a messy, un-coordinated, mismatched outfits. Never have I felt so frumpy as I did when I was 22 and dressed in 25 seconds flat because I'd overslept and went to work in an ill-fitting patterned floral dress, a green blazer with a button off and red shoes. To me, frumpy is most certainly ill-fitting clothes that don't match.

I think the idea of what a "granny" looks like has also changed dramatically but people's perceptions haven't quite followed. When I was a kid in the late 80s, my granny dressed very differently than how my mum, now a granny of 5, dresses. My granny wore shapeless kaftans at home, or matching tweed sets out and about, had a perm and pearls with sensible shoes, and just looked like she wore a uniform of what all women over 60 wore. My mum, who is 64, wears skinny jeans, t-shirts and has a cropped pixie cut. She looks amazing. I think it's positive that my child probably grows up not thinking there is a specific way a particular group of women/age of women looks like. Sadly, for me, when someone writes "grannyish" I do kind of get what they mean. It doesn't mean they should, but yeah, sadly I get what they mean.

I would also feel ok using the word frumpy although I tend to think of it as those shapeless clothes that make the wearer look dumpy. So maybe those too words connect in my mind.
Granny used as shorthand for unfashionable, unstylish or just plain awful does get my back up. I did complain about it once on here but was told off. But @Pigtailsandall I do agree that as a shorthand for a type of clothing I get what people mean. It’s practical anoraks and 3/4 trousers with a baggy T shirt in a print all in shades of beige, pale green and lilac.
There was a poster who wondered whether a particular anorak would make her ‘look like an elderly’ which was picked up on though cos it was pointed out that she would, at worst, just look like a woman her age in a not very nice coat.

History or geography? History people like fashion; geographers do practical. Choose your pack.

I am team history, because IMO humans have made Earth much more interesting than badgers ever did. I despair of the rewilders (although I grudgingly accept we need some) because when did badgers or beavers ever do anything more visually interesting than dam a stream?

A lot of the ageist threads and comments are goady imo. It feels like a backlash to women in their 50's, 60's, 70's+ that dare to look good, dress well, wear fashion, look after themselves more than previous generations seemed to.
I think it pisses some people off that older people now often have the money, time and figures that they don't.
It used to be easy to put older women down but not these days.
We are confident and don't care what others think, we don't look like 'old bags' and 'Granny's' (even if we have grandkids, like me) anymore, we are the ones not letting go and still want 'in''.
Some unhappy people get annoyed about that.

I think there's a huge gap in the thought processes. At 67, in decent shape physically, and reasonably well to do, I can buy clothes that fit, and flatter and M&S is not the only option. I pretty much only buy jeans, jumpers and shoes but (I was desperately flattered) my DS's maths teacher who told DS that I was the best dressed woman in the supermarket. It's lovely to hear praise, I did enjoy that moment, because she is always beautifully dressed too. It only counts as a success from a person whose opinion you take seriously.

@Zipps I think you have it.... it used to be easy to dismiss older women as irrelevant. No longer.