Can we talk about clothing brands and target demographics?

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

Because I’m thinking about the brands that form the core of my ‘going out to meet other grown ups’ wardrobe, and laughing at the Margaret Howell mail shot I’ve just opened. (Socks and sandals photo.) Beautiful young model, and each garment will be wonderfully well made - but I know no one under fifty who wears MH. That’s fine - but I wish the marketing acknowledged the fact.

When a brand does make an effort to engage with the real buyers of its clothes I’m full of awe and gratitude - Raey at Matches is usually great at this.

Studio Nicholson hovers somewhere in between. Again, everyone I know (in the UK) who wears their clothes is older and richer than me, probably in a creative profession. Not a wispy 20 year old.

I never used to care. But I’m wondering if marketing is the reason 99% of the middle aged and older women on MN exclaim that there are no decent clothes for them. There are - but not every brand tells you so.

Therefore the criteria for choosing an item of clothing is- "does it fit with the idea of who I am or want to be"?
Yes to that as a starting point. Sometimes it's a reminder of what I used to want to be. That House of Bruar cape takes me right back to 8 or 9 and wanting to be a nurse, not to make the world a better place but so I could swish around in a cloak like Sue Barton. Often the image falls well short of reality, e.g. I once found a mouldy, stained nurse's cape in a second hand shop, and Mr Flo had to Have a Word, which he hardly ever does and, in hindsight was kind of him.

Crkd I won't hear a word against Debenhams in the early noughties If you didn't have a good high street, it opened up all kinds of choices - an absolute godsend. And I'll never forget the thrill of a good Blue X day! But it was never the same after the banking crash.

I have finally read the whole thread and caught up. Pre-covid my go to online shop for comfortable smart casual clothing was: www.peruvianconnection.co.uk/

I have always been heavily into particular brands as I have gone through phases, Laura Ashley in the 70s (hence the beautiful black coat), Monsoon (when I disovered their shop in Covent Garden in the early 80s and fell in love with the romantic vibe); Max Mara for a serious business look in the 90s mixed with some more high-end designer stuff for evenings out (when I was earning plenty); Brora, Toast and Jigsaw post 2000 and then a lot of Peruvian Connection in more recent years, mainly because it is so comfortable to wear. I have got a bit bored with them so am grateful for all the suggestions in this thread. I might try to be more adventurous again.

Thanks for the links above- some lovely clothes to look at.
I probably ended up paying more attention to the interiors of the boutiques and thinking of what I could use as inspiration at home, than paying attention to the clothes.

I would love to experiment but the MN image of Suzi Quatro's fat nan lays heavy on my brow 😂and so I retreat to the safer shores of Hugo Boss or <gasp> Tommy Hilfiger; for fear of causing upset to the masses.

I love these www.ven-store.com/products/milano-knitted-trousers-black?variant=42515999129754 trousers. I love the clean lines, and simple elegance.
However, the distance between the dream and reality [on my bod] is a bit too wide at the moment.

The House of Bruar cape linked earlier; while I love the drama of it, around here one would look as if one was cos-playing as Lady of the Manor.
I think someone commented that real countryside people buy their wellies and coats from the local farm supplies outlets. Anything else is for visits to town.

This wasn't the intended outcome but this thread has made me realise; a quarter of my clothes come from the grain merchants, a quarter from some fancy designer, a quarter from somewhere basic like H&M, M&S, TKMaxx and the last quarter from charity or eBay.

Neoprene wellies all the way, yep I have Barbour ones but for dry warm feet - neoprene wins.

www.peruvianconnection.co.uk/product/742431-fireside+alpaca+cardigan.do?sortby=ourPicksAscend&refType=&from=fn

I have been looking for exactly that shape and length of cardigan in blue.

Thank you.

What is coming through on this thread is posters seem to start with a mental picture of what they are or want to be/ would like to be. So there are eg iconic women from the music world, members of the Bloomsbury Set and the Fabian Society, intimidating avant garde artists, high flying lawyers, characters from Jane Austen and Thomas Hardy, members of the Bauhaus group, Goths and Vampires, some Grace Kellys, Katherine and Audrey Hepburns, and Helena Bonham Carters, some family members from Little House on the Prairie, several Amish and Quakers. This isn't cosplay but more a way of grounding a starting point.

Sadly, I'm much more practical and less romantic than that. I have a hard to dress shape - I'm short (5'3") and small (size 6-8), but a pretty definitive hourglass, with a short torso and long legs (for my height, so all relative), so I can't just throw on anything and look good. All the androgynous, hangy, boxy, billowy, drapey gorgeous stuff on this thread and all the current ruffles, puffed sleeves, balloon sleeves, overly long sleeves, giant bell sleeves, long pooling trousers, voluminous midi dresses etc. etc. make me look either like I'm a child who's emptied the dressing up box, or a head floating atop a shapeless mass of clothing. I need to show either wrist, waist or ankle and preferably all three.

So my starting point is will this be flattering and how much alteration will it need- I learned years ago that stuff that's too long doesn't just need hemming for me, it needs to taken up properly from the shoulders. If the waist doesn't hit in the right place, it won't work. Second point, is it worth the money; third, is it vaguely fashionable, which is tied into the second point, because if it's too trendy, it's unlikely to be worth the money.

I'm similar to throwaway and don't possess much of the single white female tendencies of wanting to channel some famous women. It's all quite abstract, silhouette, proportions, fit, etc.

I'm not sure I care that much about flattering though, I'm the same size and shape, slightly taller at 5"4 and mid waisted, sounds ideal for getting dressed on paper but it isn't the reality. If all I cared about is flattering I'd just wear fitted dresses with lots of stretch in but that doesn't feel much like me (my outfit of choice very much communicates my mood and people close to me can read it as such). I mostly care about clothes being interesting to me if forced to define it.

Hilary I LOVED that Suzi Quattro’s fat nan thread - it had me howling and hooting!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/mumsnet_classics/3106919-Anyone-want-to-come-and-mourn-the-reality-vs-expectation-of-new-purchases-with-me

On reflection, it’s kind of the mirror image of this thread, where the brand’s projected image and products don’t line up at all with the real life buyers.

What's brilliant about this thread is older women with money to spend and an idea of who they are are talking about clothes.

I'm not sure about 'flattering'

I honestly don't even know what it means.

My mother absolutely hates my hair. She thinks I should get it bobbed and straightened.

Which is a mad thought.

But she thinks that would be 'flattering'

My oldest sister gets my hair because it's absolutely me. It's big and wavy silver. It's Patti Smith.

Is it 'flattering' ? I don't know.

But I like it.

I hear you. If I were to go solely for know it will fit and be relatively flattering, I'd live in Alaia, but almost never find myself reaching for it these days. I think I'm just bored with fashion at the moment. I'd love to just find my wardrobe magically stocked with lovely, interesting, unique things that I haven't had to hunt for. Very first world problems, I know!

@RhadamanthNemes

If there's one thing in my life I've done right, it's make sure my mother would never think of advising me on anything to do with appearance! Now I need to manage the same on teen DD 😂My definition of flattering is pretty much, 'this will do'.

And I love Patti Smith. She's so fierce and unique. I say keep the hair.

Ah but the hunt is half the fun for me throwaway.

And I'm pretty sure I recognise you from previous usernames Rhadamanth, don't you dare go down the sleek bob road, your hair is amazing as is.

'Flattering', ah, it's one of those English language things to me that can have many layered meanings. It can just be, don't mind me, I know my place is not to be too loud (or whatever), a way of directing women in a way men aren't but it can also be I look fucking amazing in this dress but saying that outright is seen to be too boastful so we'll just go with it's flattering. Or just a very, ah, I look good enough in this let's not make this more complicated than it is. There's probably more.

Hi @botemp!

Don't worry, there's no way I'm getting rid of my Patti/Grace Coddington mash-up hair.

It's just my mother's constant look of contempt that amuses.

Ahh @Enheduanna , great post. I've always loved women who are authenticity 'them'

That is exactly how I feel about my hair.

I started to go grey at 16.

I always had 'mad' hair even when it was deep brunette and I was young.

I never bought into the tamed hair aesthetic.

It offends my Mother for some reason, I don't know why. She was and is, a very stylish woman.

Not sure why it bothers her so much!

I do think that hair is so crucial to one's style.

I super hate over-styled hair. It just doesn't look good.

IMO obviously.

@ShangPie Whilst the 'Suzi Quattro's fat Nan' thread was quite amusing. I don't like too much self-deprecation from women.

I'd like to see more 'I'm fucking brilliant, even if I do look like Suzi Quattro's fat Nan. Because she's ace. And I am owning that.'

Define Europe, I think in France it's a lot more normal to see salt and pepper hair and they tend to go fully grey quite slowly. I'm not sure if there's a correlation between never dyeing hair much through your lifetime and greying slower but France has me believing this but box dye seems to be fairly popular too, there might be a class distinction with the haute bourgeoisie embracing their greys in a way the (economic) middle classes there don't. Where I am it's 50/50, and dyeing culture (before grey hair even starts) is big as there's a lot of mousy blondes, so continuing once greys come in isn't really that remarkable, it's not even so much about the greys. I think it's very dependent on ideas about female beauty in a country, I can't speak for Italy currently but it's a country that seems much more dye happy. Much of central/eastern Europe is also very dye focused. The US has always been weird with hair though, I remember reading a whole thesis about hair and political affiliation.

Anyhow, I'm team prostitute hair leave your hair alone and I don't like overly styled hair on me, or even slightly styled hair. Shock, horror, I like a bit of frizz. I don't get the whole getting het up about other people's hair though, I really couldn't care how someone else styles it or doesn't but some people seem to have really strong opinions about 'messy' hair.

Aha! @Enheduanna that's an interesting take.

We were both educated by nuns.

I think you may have actually got to the root of the matter there. My mother got pregnant at 17 with my oldest sister and was sent to a home for 'unmarried mothers'. My sister was scheduled to be adopted, but my great uncle rescued her and my sister.

I think there may be some long-held grief there that's manifested through her dislike of my hair!

Ha @botemp

#prostitutehair.

Is my new handle.

I daresay there’ll be more and more similar conversations here as the average age of MN posters creeps up?

(I have the impression the MN model of online conversation is seen as a deeply irritating relic by younger users.)

However, while money certainly makes it easier to maintain the sort of physical presence that turns getting dressed into a pleasure, I wouldn’t want anyone reading the thread to feel they have to spend thousands in order to be doing mature dressing properly!

I'm a bit taken aback and by the "get rid of all my scarves because wearing a scarf is dated" thread.

This is not because I'm bothered by the idea that wearing a scarf is "dated" but the mindset that looks at a scarf and thinks "dated".