Can we talk about clothing brands and target demographics?

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

Because I’m thinking about the brands that form the core of my ‘going out to meet other grown ups’ wardrobe, and laughing at the Margaret Howell mail shot I’ve just opened. (Socks and sandals photo.) Beautiful young model, and each garment will be wonderfully well made - but I know no one under fifty who wears MH. That’s fine - but I wish the marketing acknowledged the fact.

When a brand does make an effort to engage with the real buyers of its clothes I’m full of awe and gratitude - Raey at Matches is usually great at this.

Studio Nicholson hovers somewhere in between. Again, everyone I know (in the UK) who wears their clothes is older and richer than me, probably in a creative profession. Not a wispy 20 year old.

I never used to care. But I’m wondering if marketing is the reason 99% of the middle aged and older women on MN exclaim that there are no decent clothes for them. There are - but not every brand tells you so.

I have to agree with the MH descriptions there. It's all a bit of a projection.

Maybe MH equivalent wearers would have been more Buntyesque (Father Brown) than your female ancestors (and mine, all very tweedy, plus brogues).

Yes, NAP seem to be suffering from M&S syndrome atm, too large and rudderless and trying to sail in all directions at once. They went all young designers and geen with The Vanguard thing, then some reality competition tie in, now they've gone all Matches (who are also a bit lost) and are constantly spamming me with promotion codes and poor algorithm suggestions of what they think I'd like, the endless capsule wardrobe newsletters have me questioning their sanity. The thing they were once good at, select curation, has been entirely abandoned. Browsing on NAP now feels like having to plough through too much stuff so you end up only looking at brands you already like, selling you things very similar to things you probably already own.

Browns does curation better atm but you have to be a Browns type customer (they lost me as a customer for a while when they employed the most ridiculous copy writer so coming back to it feels new to me). See also Envoy of Belfast for an even smaller scale and specific customer. I mostly shop at MyTheresa, 24S or LuisaViaRoma, same easy shopping experience as with NAP. I also like the curation from smaller boutiques abroad that are steadily building out their businesses online but predominantly, post pandemic, I've been shopping in physical shops, the changing rooms are much improved.

@throwawayaway1 - it may be that half the people reading or posting on this this thread spent an hour last night reviewing their Huge Online Multi-brand Store habits.

Perhaps not amazingly I too had been driven away from Browns by a period of … total weirdness on their part, during which the website became unusable on my phone and, as @botemp relates, their tone suggested over-consumption of something hallucinogenic. They seem cured now.

It’s true both Matches and Net-a-Porter have become like an exhausting husband you want to leave, but can’t imagine life without …

I must say I'm loving this masterclass on the correct use of tweed, Enheduanna, although I secretly suspect this is the cat typing 😼

What was your Browns bizzaro world breaking point Crkd? For me it was the promise of two round globular apples in the back of these new leather trousers that I should treat myself to and then lie to 'hubby' about and hide the credit card bill I swear it must have been either some 16yo channeling the stereotypical mean gay fashion person or a failed chick lit writer. I wish I had screenshot some of them as they were insane, but I was too annoyed.

I think at the time they probably had some investor trying to build the brand into the next Matches and employing some questionable consultant firms. I think they're now part of the Farfetch group.

Ha, thanks Enheduenna. I just spent a solid 20 minutes on Wikipedia reading about Burke’s instead of doing anything useful. At least I managed to restrain the urge to rabbit hole all the mad heraldry terminology (this time… I will be back for some verdant rampant whatsits)

ShangPie thank you for the tip off! It does look nicely long but I didn't really want black plus the label says it's wool and polyester so I'm not sure if it'll have quite enough heft - I want it to swing when I walk. But thanks for thinking of me.

Also ThighMistress, if you're still on the thread, I've checked and you're dead right about Eastex skirts - they do come up short! The one's I'd been looking at that were the right length but wrong size were Aquascutum and Jaeger.

Interesting about Margaret Howell and what attracts. I think all dressing up is projection, isn't it? It certainly is for me. But I don't have the slightest interest in the countryside - it bores me senseless in fact - so although I do agree there's something going on, I'm not sure whether that's it. Although that said, I do like a proper old school country clothing store and so maybe I'm in denial..... But no, if I had to put a label on it, I would say in my case it's a Virginia Woolf / Bloomsbury group fantasy, with a dash of Miss Marple thrown in.

Constantly channelling Harriet Vane, here …

🙄

Interesting to read thoughts on NAP. I have just lost two days scrolling endlessly through their sale stock, after someone posted a link on here. I came out of it exhausted and with seven things in my basket, ranging from Ancient Greek sandals to a natty pair of Vampire’s Wife shorts. I decided to make a cup of tea and think about it before checking out, because it was a fair wack of money, and when I came back to it I’d already changed my mind about half of it.

Then I looked into returns, and it sounded complicated, which put me off a bit. Finally went to check out and two of the remaining items had gone, including a Tory Burch shirt that was the thing I most wanted, leaving only one item in my basket. I lost heart and didn’t buy anything.

I used to be very decisive and impulsive in my shopping habits - see it, love it, buy it. Sometimes I made mistakes, but often I bought things I ended up loving and wearing to death, even though if I’d thought it through more I would have changed my mind.

Now I seem to spend a lot of time looking, and then doubt myself. Am I too old for this? Too fat? Is it too expensive? When would I wear it? Riven by indecision, I give up.

Who do people think Cabbages and Roses target to?

I am usually quite good at placing a target but this one has me flummoxed. On the one hand it leans 'young', but on the other I'm not so sure. I often feel McQueen in there, perhaps some 90's bohemia, a sort of Jack Wills gone Midsommer Murders at the country manor. I see gen X and Z twisted together in a whimsy-struck, money-to-burn kind of danse macabre, or at least pretending to be....

@Floisme I would say in my case it's a Virginia Woolf / Bloomsbury group fantasy, with a dash of Miss Marple thrown in.

This describe me exactly, although you probably wouldn't think so if passing me in the street. I remember watching 'Carrington' and 'Life in Squares' just to check out the clothing dept
I'm very much a bohemian at heart, which is visible in my art studio but not so much my wardrobe, as busier prints and Bloomsbury colours tend not to suit my hair and face, if that makes sense. It feels somewhat unfair....

So I dress rather muted, with a focus on good, clean, natural fabrics, which places me more in line with a 'Poetry' colour palette, which I have mixed feelings about.
In winter, as I mentioned a while ago somewhere else on here, I lean to a Withnail sort of look; long tweed or navy wool coat, trailing vintage scarf, lace up boots. I don't drink lighter fluid but I do like prattling on like a downtrodden thespian whilst doing my face in the mirror

Marg Howell depresses me, even tho I ought to love her...it's the dark, rainy day colours which wash me out (blonde, pale, delicate) and the perepetually short, boxy knits.
I just long for a longer, slouchy cashmere or lambswool cardigan, sort of like my grandfather would have worn, with pockets and 3 or 4 buttons. Soft and pliant, luxurious. I can't find anything with even remotely softer lines anywhere in the past few years.

I see Quaint Irene from Mapp & Lucia!

From the original show:

Yes, only a finer more slouchy knit. Agree about the grandpa.

Apologies for barging back in with walls of text, but I have been looking at new stores online recently so my mind if full of the topic.

I notice that more ethical (as said earlier in thread), mature or clothing aimed at the 'thinking woman' (lol) seems to have a more 'traditionally' masculine edge, from collars, high necks to sleeve length.
I wonder why this is?
True, we have been patronised and sold out, clothing for women has been degraded in a race to the bottom for too long, and we have been complaining over the years about men's clothes remaining decent quality in comparison.

Except...I didn't particularly want to dress like a man, exactly. I need the shapes to hang well on a slight build that isn't 6 ft tall.

Just looking at a few outdoors focused brands such as Finisterre, Fjallraven, and notice that the designs for women's clothes are becoming more blocky, cropped and closer to the throat. Like I said about Jane Birkin up thread, I would prefer something more delicate, more scooped, a little less stiff and structured - sometimes.
A lot of these brands make me feel as if I'd be 'boxed in' in their clothes. I have a beautiful Donegal sweater from Toast that feels as if it weighs more than me.

I do think there are more choices on the market now, than ever before, but I don't really like any of them. If I am honest I preferred the more fluid lines of the late 80/90's such as you'd see an academic wearing in Inspector Morse.

People point to dark academia but I'm just not seeing it. I see something that reminds me of manga crossed with goth. Lovely, but not for me.

May I offer an Irish grandpa another MNetter pointed me towards this brand and it's really great quality. There's a lady's version too.

I'll ponder on your thinking women can't be seen to be embracing feminine without being seen as frivolous a bit.

Venus, I do think the whole process of online shopping has made it a bit more agonising. The pandemic made me so thankful to be back in shops again, it was rather ridiculous, that it sort of made me resent online shopping when there was another lockdown. At the moment I functionally shop online, I buy something I saw in the shop but needed in a different size or colour. Anything that vaguely takes my fancy (seen in shop or online) goes in wishlists and I'll check when the sales start if I still fancy it at the discounted price. It means I actually go quite a long time without buying something, it kind of feels like going back to three square meals a day sort of philosophy but it's working for me at the moment. May very well change again in the future.

@Enheduanna

Mine were tweedy (Irish sub section).

botemp wishlists are a good approach. I annoyed myself writing my previous post, so went back into NAP and tried to find everything again. Of course it had all gone. So I scrolled further and ended up buying a Batsheva skirt and a Farm Rio dress in defiance at myself.

I’m already regretting the Farm Rio dress.

I have a Cabbages and Roses dress and this coat. It's ankle length on me. I'm 63 and life long dressing up fan.

It's attracted compliments from passing strangers although is a ridiculous garment. It's a heavy, lined drill cotton and weighs a ton.

www.cabbagesandroses.com/athena-coat-in-navy-drill.html

I think all dressing up is projection, isn't it? It certainly is for me.

Certainly is fit for me.